Gordie #18: still not divorced

[AndrewP]

My own opinion is to answer about the ring as briefly as possible with no openings for bargaining.

"If" she asks which she may not, you could answer:
- I'm not comfortable with that yet
- I'm not ready
- We still have a ways to go

If you get to where there could be bargaining then you could be put on the defensive.

And yes - there's a long way to go before you could be both recommitted to the marriage. You'll need to know that she's not just making sure that her backup plan is secured which (IMO) is where she's at right now.

Don't be disappointed if she doesn't ask though. The innate selfishness she has displayed means that she has difficulty in seeing beyond the end of her nose - again - IMO

[Gordie]

Cali,

Your words have been haunting me. I think unconsciously I have been punishing w. Nothing overt or aggressive but yes, a subtle jab here and there or a cold shoulder, I’m ashamed to admit that. No, that’s not acting like a man only a fool would leave. Maybe now I’m pushing her away?

Butterfly,

You are never too harsh. You keep me on track. Please keep reminding me to GAL. It was the perfect reminder for this weekend. I made sure to carve out some time for myself to go do some things by myself for my own enjoyment and enrichment. I got so carried away in one of my hobbies, I wound up staying up until 2am and I can’t remember the last time I did that. And then I got the best sleep I’ve had in a long time. Keep reminding me to do this—for my own sanity.

LH,

I totally agree with you. I want to see remorse. But that needs to come from inside of her and right now, it’s not forthcoming. When you say I have to let her go what do you mean by that? And why so hopeful re my situation?

Pax and Andrew,

Thanks. Those are the words I’ve been searching for. I like: I’m just not comfortable doing that right now.

***

Journaling:

W has been getting upset with me about more little things. As MWD says, I should see this as a positive. At least she cares.

So one thing w got upset about is that she says I have been ignoring her and not paying attention to her. This is her primary love language. She wants attention, my undivided attention when she wants it no matter what I may be doing at that moment.

W has also started to acknowledge some of the ways she contributed to the breakdown of the M. She had feelings that she didn’t communicate, she wanted things to be different but didn’t act accordingly.

She also did one of the signs on my list. She actually asked me a question about me and one of my interests. This is something of no interest to her but she actually asked me about it and listened to me.

So Easter Sunday and w joins the family at church. Some old friends say hello and w is friendly. We spend a lot of time together cooking and cleaning and enjoying ourselves. We enjoy our Easter dinner together and w says “it’s so nice to be together as a family.”

May you all be Blessed.

[SBJ]

Gordie, Glad you had a good day. These holiday's are especially important for our kids. I'm happy that you all were able to spend it together.

I agree on the GAL activities. It is easy to get lost in time and stay out too late.

Have a great week.

[LH19]

When you say I have to let her go what do you mean by that? And why so hopeful re my situation?

What I mean is let her go in move on with your life. She has never had to think for one iota what life would be like w/o you.

I always had the impression your W was a "grass is greener" person and once she had time and space would realize that it is not.

[CaliGuy]

how do you get to that point where the past is the past? Isn’t that sweeping it under the rug? I clearly still am angry and agitated about all that had passed.

That's the million dollar question and I will be honest I am not the person to answer this one as I still struggle with this. Sure time heals all but the impact all this has had still leaves a scar. I think the trick is to accept what has happened really happened. The hurdle is this is one sided, you must deal with this without much help from her. Allow yourself to have those moments of anger and be done with it, understand this will cycle and come back but in much smaller and easier to handle waves ... do not expect (you know what we say about expectations) for your spouse to hold your hand with this ... remember they have a full bowl of delicious MLC gruel to eat for themselves.

Your words have been haunting me. I think unconsciously I have been punishing w. Nothing overt or aggressive but yes, a subtle jab here and there or a cold shoulder, I’m ashamed to admit that. No, that’s not acting like a man only a fool would leave. Maybe now I’m pushing her away?

I know I did similar, we were together for about a year and the big thing that changed was I went from 100 to zero in the sex department, I really did not pursue her nor it ... partly because of the STD she contracted but mostly because of the damage the betrayal caused. Truth is looking back she was not showing me the certain signs I was looking for, not jumping through the predetermined hurdles I had tactfully set up for her ... see where this is going? Expectations .... In my head there was a gauntlet of things she needed to do to prove her love and make up for all the damage she had done and there was no way I was letting her out of the dog house till I was satisfied. Ask yourself .... is the punishment more important than your need for it.
Gordie, you just may not be ready to forgive her and thats acceptable, but until you are ready focus less on how she can make it up to you and more on how you can arrive to a place of allowing her to. In time maybe she will do this but she has some work to do and is currently still not wanting to be judged, she is trying this married thing on and trying to see how it fits .... just like that ring she is wearing, its familiar but still strange after all this has happened. My advice ... if you want to be married conduct yourself as such, are you not wearing the ring as a form of punishment or you are not sure? Its the push pull dance and at best its Passive/Aggressive ... I know because I danced that dance too .... in some ways I still do but I notice it so much faster now.

Keep working and looking inward you have come a long way, and there is still more to go.

[skm0619]

Sorry Gordie.....not trying to highjack your thread, but what Caliguy said to you regarding thoughts you have been having, really resonated with me and made me think.

So, thanks Caliguy

[Gordie]

cali: That's the million dollar question and I will be honest I am not the person to answer this one as I still struggle with this. Sure time heals all but the impact all this has had still leaves a scar. I think the trick is to accept what has happened really happened.

G: yes. I think that’s why not addressing it is hurting me right now. She really did all those things. It was real.

Cali: The hurdle is this is one sided, you must deal with this without much help from her. Allow yourself to have those moments of anger and be done with it, understand this will cycle and come back but in much smaller and easier to handle waves ... do not expect (you know what we say about expectations) for your spouse to hold your hand with this ... remember they have a full bowl of delicious MLC gruel to eat for themselves.

G: right again. I want us to talk through things and for her participation in helping me to heal and recover. But right now, she can’t do that and my hope and expectation that she will or should is only hurting me.

Cali: I did similar, we were together for about a year and the big thing that changed was I went from 100 to zero in the sex department, I really did not pursue her nor it ... partly because of the STD she contracted but mostly because of the damage the betrayal caused.

G: I have been wanting sex but not pursuing it because our current ground rules are we aren’t ready to sleep together or have sex yet. I do wonder when will be the right time to bring that up again. I do fear she has lost sexual attraction to me and she has never been the initiator so have no idea how that aspect of our R gets rebuilt. I’ve been focusing on very small, non sexual touches and mirroring what she is comfortable offering me. But they are scraps. At least I don’t have cooties anymore.

Cali: Truth is looking back she was not showing me the certain signs I was looking for, not jumping through the predetermined hurdles I had tactfully set up for her ... see where this is going? Expectations .... In my head there was a gauntlet of things she needed to do to prove her love and make up for all the damage she had done and there was no way I was letting her out of the dog house till I was satisfied.

G: so I think that’s where I was in February but that wasn’t helping me. But I don’t know where I am now. Maybe there are days when I am still there. Other days, I have my own temptations to sweep things under the rug and pretend nothing happened.

cali: ask yourself .... is the punishment more important than your need for it.
Gordie, you just may not be ready to forgive her and thats acceptable, but until you are ready focus less on how she can make it up to you and more on how you can arrive to a place of allowing her to. In time maybe she will do this but she has some work to do and is currently still not wanting to be judged,

G: absolutely. How can I allow her to a place where forgiveness is freely given and received with no expectations? And she certainly does not want to be judged. It’s making it really hard for her to reconnect to kids and friends.

Cali: she is trying this married thing on and trying to see how it fits .... just like that ring she is wearing, its familiar but still strange after all this has happened. My advice ... if you want to be married conduct yourself as such, are you not wearing the ring as a form of punishment or you are not sure? Its the push pull dance and at best its Passive/Aggressive ... I know because I danced that dance too .... in some ways I still do but I notice it so much faster now.

G: wow. If I want to be married, act like it? Put that ring back on? Is my discomfort with putting it back on a form of punishment? Not consciously but maybe unconsciously. For me, I think one of my hurdles is sex. If she’s not willing to sleep with me and have sex with me, then isn’t this just a big, fake marriage and why signify that with a ring?

Cali: Keep working and looking inward you have come a long way, and there is still more to go.

G: thanks brother for taking the time to be so insightful and pushing me along. Wow. Lots to chew on.

[Gordie]

Journaling:

So cali’s words have been haunting me.

I’ve been asking myself if I really want this to work? I’ve been asking myself do I still love this woman? Do I still want to spend the rest of my life with her, not the woman she was but the woman she is now? And if so, am I trying to punish her and push her away?

And in hindsight, I’ve been wanting her show her remorse in the way I expected. But she did so in the way I didn’t expect. On that night in December when I just let out all my anger and rage and pushed her away (emotionally not physically) and wouldn’t let her touch me, it was then that she apologized and curled up in a ball on the floor sobbing. And after that, it was when she dropped OM2 and the D.

But it hasn’t been enough for me. I want her to be more sorry. I’ve been avoiding her touch.

Well, I think I need to change. I put the ring back on. I feel like I need to recommit myself to this M. I’ve got to slowly open myself up more to her or I’m going to lose this second chance that I have. Yes, keep going slowly and with full knowledge I may get burned again, badly. But it’s a risk I’m willing to take.

[Babe]

Gordie,

my most humble opinion; noticed your brief of the time when bomb dropped, it was back in 2016, I'm very sorry but sincerely want you to be reminded, I don't think she is ready in stepping out from her crisis... I'm sorry, but this truly requires great deal of patience and sometimes they move forward so slowly, there is a chinese slang 'one step forward and two steps backward...' I don't think they are playing games, it's just there are too much problem/feelings deeply buried inside of their minds and hearts, they just don't have the abilities to have them all solved at the moment. They need time...

I have no intention to discourage you by saying those, instead, I want you to be encourage, don't lose heart and maybe try to focus more on yourself and your own life. so sorry I forgot by it was by whom -> love your midlife spouse but with distance (HB maybe ?)

[Irish M]

Hi Gordie
I agree with Babe on this. Not sure enough time has passed. You know it best because you are living it. I would hate for her to just say Opps I made a mistake, lest's not talk about BD, OM1 or OM2,let's take it from where we left off. Then months down the road BD2 because she wasn't complete.

So many sitches here experience that short phase of what seems to be an effort from the MLCr and it turns out to be just them buying time. I know we all want our MLCr to be the one that makes it through, says and does all what we want to hear. Not sure that miracle exists without time. Follow your gut. That is one thing I learned from this site. We all had that gut feeling and it was right.

Take your time. You are giving her that, you showed that you will wait for her, so expect nothing less from her as you deserve the best.

Irish