Gordie #17: deliberately not divorced

[Mach1]

What IS your plan for yourself in the future ??

I don’t have a plan and am trying to live one day at a time. I am trying to be happy irrespective of my M status. I am neither M not D right now and trying to be happy in that place.

How is that working for you ?

Pretty sure that in your life, when you were asked what you wanted to be when you grow up...


"I'm just gonna take it one day at a time" wasn't the answer that you gave....

So, what is YOUR plan ??

For you...

Not her...

Not the Marriage...(cause you are and aren't right now)

Nobody else there when the lights go out...

YOUR plan ???


Because I can tell you this. MLC or not...

A wayward spouse will never return to a marriage unless they feel that things will and can be different than before...

And I know that you said that you are "taking the pressure off" of her..Are you doing it to induce a reaction from her ??

I am not trying to get a reaction from her. I am going against my ingrained desire for pursuit and wanting to show her how much I love her.

That IS trying to get a reaction from her.

You are showing her "how much you love her" as if she is still your wife, from a few years ago.

And exactly what I have been saying to you.

You trying to show her how much you love her...IS you trying to get a reaction from her...

You are doing it, hoping she will see, and change her mind, and come running towards you, in a meadow of flowers, screaming that she loves you too....

Convince me that I am wrong ???

Or because you are seriously tired of her bulllsiht and you are ready to just live your life...

???

You know what I’m really tired of? I am tired of never being enough for her. She always finds fault with me.

The reason that you feel that way, is because you have convinced yourself that it is okay to accept less for yourself...

Who is responsible for that ?

Wanna say it together ???

You are..

No, I do not want to be that guy. Yes, I’ve got issues. I think I have been more focused on fixing the M and yes, I need to spend more time fixing me.

To be continued...

Then what are you waiting for ??

You know how to find me....

And I am here for you whenever you are ready for change..

[AndrewP]

Hi Gordie. I've caught up on your situation and oh man, you've taken the hilly rocky fork in the road.

I was pleased to read that after weighing all the advice you've received both here and from other sources that you've made your own decision that you are if not comfortable with, are accepting of knowing full well (as well as anyone "could" know) what the impact of this will be.

It does seem that your W has been making some token efforts to do a "reset" on her recent actions and is finding those bridges burned down. One of your big challenges will to not be "marriage police" and to not try to fix things for her. She's a big girl and will do what she will do even if it means finding another OM or doing the hard work of rebuilding those bridges with her own two hands. She bounced off one of your boundaries - good on you for holding firm - but she's not recommitted to anything it would seem.

From a practical viewpoint I presume you've sorted out the apartment and suchlike? I don't recall, but you've separated finances and have control of the main purse strings I hope? You probably don't want to co-mingle them again. The reality is, and perhaps you could say this, is that you can't truly trust her at this point. Have you considered getting a post-nup based on your prior agreement set up? That way she'll know exactly what that border wall would be that she would have to climb over to leave. I'm not sure on the standard clauses and formats of those but I'm sure there are lots who can advise you on the best approach in your situation.

The reason I'm suggesting those moves is because you probably realize that the odds of her chasing off after the fairies again is pretty large. Any post-nup would not be a leash and collar on her, but a wall to protect Fort Gordie and the kids. As you may recall from things that people like job have written, the holiday season is a time for many MLCr's to pop out, look around and see their shadow. Now that it's past, you're back in for the long hard slog again.

We're all here rooting for you #TeamGordie #FortGordie

[roist]

Best wishesGordie. Without judging I would just say you have stepped back into limboland, one where W has taken the pressure off herself.

Go with your decision, but in a fixed amount of time, check if ye are any closer to where you want to be. Don't lose sight of that.

Best wishes

[bttrfly]

Gord - what's happening with you? You good? xoxoxo

[Gordie]

Mach1–no. What do I want to be when I grow up? Living one day at a time was not the answer I gave then but I think it’s okay to give that answer today. I think you misinterpreted what I wrote above. I am not pursuing. I am not showing how much I love her. I am treating her as an extended family member, not my wife.

Am I accepting less for myself? Today, yes I am. I am accepting a loveless, sexless marriage. Am I accepting this forever? No. I am accepting it for today.

I am reading one of the books either you recommended to or was on the reading list. The focus is on love and letting go of fear. Forgiveness is a central theme of the book. To love others and to extend forgivnesss to others and to self. Trying to figure out how I extend forgiveness to myself. Trying to figure out what forgiveness means when the offending party does not ask for it. Central theme is love and fear are not compatible. You can choose to love or you can choose to fear.

Andrew - yes, she has not recommitted to anything. I hope your trip went well! Yes, I explained the situation to the landlord and he let me out of the lease. I am not a good liar so just told him the truth and he was very understanding. Yes, we separated finances a while ago and I am keeping them separate. No, I have not thought of a post nup. Something for me to consider.

Roist - yes, I am back in limboland. I am neither marriednor divorced. I am okay with this right now but no, I do not see it as a permanent state. I don’t know what my timeframe is. I am taking it day by day.

Butterfly - thanks for checking on me I will journal when I have a little more time. Short answer is nothing major has changed. She is reconnecting with the kids and me but we have had no R talks. We are friendly roommates and coparents.

[Mach1]

I am reading one of the books either you recommended to or was on the reading list. The focus is on love and letting go of fear. Forgiveness is a central theme of the book. To love others and to extend forgivnesss to others and to self. Trying to figure out how I extend forgiveness to myself. Trying to figure out what forgiveness means when the offending party does not ask for it. Central theme is love and fear are not compatible. You can choose to love or you can choose to fear.

I wrote this a few years ago to a poster here. He had asked me what my thoughts were on trust and forgiveness....

This is my process, and it won't be yours. But just a glimpse of what I went through....







So, I have been thinking about this a bit...

To me, I think that the key to building trust was about finding forgiveness....

The trust had been broken, yes, and it needed to be rebuilt from BOTH sides, and the trust that I needed to find first, was the trust with myself. I betrayed my own trust just as much as my Ex ever did. I betrayed myself, and the things that I promised way before she ever stepped outside of that trust circle.

So for me ? Trusting myself in my actions and decisions was way harder than worrying about trusting her again. And to this day ? I do not trust her, yet for very different reasons that I would expect them to be.

It started for me by realizing and accepting that I played a role in the demise of the relationship. I had to own the things that led me to betray my vows, way earlier than she did. I was just as depressed, and angry as she ever was. I let fear drive my actions, not ever being aware that I had fear. I was controlling, superior, condescending, and out of touch with any kind of relationship skills. I assumed her feelings continually , and I was an absent parent throughout most of my children's infancy.

There were reasons for most of that. Obligation was a main issue, and the reason I was working long hours. Yet looking back, and through the next step of things. It really didn't matter what the reasons were. I WAS guilty of all the above. And I own them , not proudly, just the flag that I fly now. Absolute truth....

When I first started delving into myself, I resisted seeing those things because I was still looking for this to be somebody's fault except my own. I wanted to blame her, I wanted to blame MLC, and I wanted anything other than that person in the mirror. When I started really being honest about it, I was just as much, probably even more at fault than she was. Way more at fault than MLC was. I was not responsible for her MLC, that was a perfect storm inside of her own head. I was however, responsible for my actions that led her to many triggers.

IF.....IF what we read and hear is true, and that having another person firmly entrenched within the middle of our Marriages, is nothing more than a Band-Aid, and not the real reason, or root cause of our Marriage failing, then the real issues need to be owned and addressed BEFORE any healing can occur. As much as I needed somebody else to be at fault, when I hit MY bottom, the only way back to the top was the truth within myself. This actually had little to do with her.

The more people that I talked to (DBers), and the more books that I read, convinced me that my way out of my self imposed H@ll, was forgiveness. What the F was that ? How does THAT happen ? I can tell you that I didn't have a clue how to answer that. Maybe I still don't know how to word it, not even sure that I remember there being actual steps involved in it. What I do remember, is that to truly forgive, has zero to do with another person.

I took the time to break down each of the things that I felt responsible for. The fact that I emotionally abandoned her, that I was angry, that I was depressed, that when I abandoned her, I still held her accountable for my emotional well being. That I needed to hold on too tightly to her, fearing that she would leave one day. Working toward that being the goal instead of getting off of my ass and working toward being a better person.

I realized that the only thing that I had ever known, was what I had ever seen, The role models that had been in place for me growing up. The lifestyle that I witnessed, watching my own Mother's MLC at an early age, that ripped through my childhood. I did the best that I could, with the tools that I had at that time. Not an excuse, yet it is the reason.

When I worked through those things, is when I started to realize that what I was doing, was a choice, and that I COULD go through the rest of my life being the same old @sshat that I had been previously. And that the cycle would repeat if I didn't break the chain. My days became lighter, and my darkness started becoming brighter. Day by day, I started seeing things for what they really were, and not what my rose colored glasses tinted them as.

I could see forgiveness through all of the darkness, for the first time ever. Owning all of those things allowed me to free my mind of all the excuses that I used to carry around....EMBRACING my mistakes allowed me to start forgiving those things. And forgiving those things had nothing to do with her, it had to do with myself.

After that, I had to sort out the other crap, which was everything that she had done to betray the marriage and relationship. And I have to admit, by the actions that I had made, I really cannot blame her for trying to find the emotional support that I had abandoned years earlier. I really didn't blame her for trying to find the things that fed her soul, that I really didn't understand (because I hadn't taken the time to feed them for her). I really didn't blame her for trying to find support through parenting when I was absent. And I especially couldn't blame her for her MLC, and unresolved issues that were dancing around in her head. So what was left ???

It was the dishonesty that was my last straw. the lying.......

That was the hill that I was willing to die on, and the hill that the relationship did die on....

How does that tie into trust ??

Good question, and I guess that in typing all of that ^^^, maybe my sight of it has changed up a bit.

Trusting again, was one of the hardest things to do. Old triggers play a part, and new triggers are formed. I can tell you that trusting myself was way harder than trusting another person again. Trusting myself to not repeat the same behaviors that led me here 6 years ago. All of that comes into play. Trusting another person (in the confines of a relationship) is way less pressure than trusting myself in those same confines. Trusting myself to not make those same mistakes again.

Trust is the hardest thing to gain, and the easiest thing to lose. Last to show up, and first to leave the picnic.

And IF I could make the mistakes that I made, and was able to trust myself again, then nothing that anyone else had done , was worse than what I did to myself.... And IF reconciliation was ever a possibility, then I owed it to her (understanding MLC and all) to try to trust again. Through Faith, is trust given, and with my vow to her, I would have owed that to her....

I DO trust myself now, through a lot of hard work, and absolute truth with myself. And there are days when I do better than others with it. I do recognize those things when I am off, and I do recognize the things I do well.

I will say that to achieve any kind of relationship, there has to be trust, and however that happens is up to the people within that relationship. And it has to be a common goal for each party. What each other are comfortable with, and what they are willing to give to keep that trust all safe and warm.

I think that trust starts in a reconciliation through the common goal of WANTING to remain married. Trust starts small, and builds through trusting, yet verifying that trust. I think that trust builds through actions matching the words, and certain steps in place ( MC, etc) to protect that trust. Taking only in "safe" environments for example. Agreed check points for electronic devices for EACH party. Being as willing to give, as well as receive. Being aware of certain "triggers" and not assuming that you know anything. Being able to listen even better than talking. Being able to show trust in order to get it in return.


Another thing that I will say is, that DBing is perfect for detaching, and keeping the Monsters at bay through this. However, the things that we learn through DBing, aren't always perfect for the re-connection process. My advice would be to live within the moments, rather than what we accept as "normal" though MLC. Access every situation, and take things as they are, not what we expect them to be, or worse yet...assume that they will be.

To me, love means being vulnerable . There isn't any way around it. Love is a risk that we are willing to take in our lives. Part of living life to its fullest is part of being vulnerable. Being vulnerable in other aspects of life seems to be accepted more easily at times. Maybe a person sky-dives, or rock climbs. Even more so ? I get into my vehicle every morning to come to work....am I vulnerable ? Even more so than in a relationship.


I was asked last night..." Are trust and forgiveness two different things? "

I answered that they tied into each other. And I do believe that.

Without forgiving myself, I would never be able to trust myself. And trusting myself was the first step towards being able to trust another person again.



I think that you need to figure out what your version looks like.

Because my gut tells me that you are hiding behind this....

[Gordie]

Mach1,

Hiding behind what? Hiding behind my situation? Waiting on what she is going to do. Hiding behind my fear? She has done the worst thing she could ever do to me. So of what Is left to be afraid? Hiding behind my guilt? Guilt that I failed as a H and a father—that I didn’t love, cherish and honor W, that I didn’t protect this family from destruction. Hiding behind all of these things...and keeps me from being happy? From experiencing life abundantly?

So I am thinking of St. Paul. How can I be happy in all circumstances? In even the worst of circumstances? In limbo?

[bttrfly]

This worked for me: finding out what my core values/principles were and trying my best to incorporate them into my life. I say finding out, like it was a scavenger hunt. That's not exactly correct. A more accurate statement would be that I looked for common themes/threads. Several emerged: gratitude, humor, compassion, service and the hardest of all for me right now: love.

So again, I say to you my friend - what are the common threads in your life? Therein lies your personal happiness.

xoxoxo
#TeamGordie
#YouGotThis

[Mach1]

I think that you are hiding from yourself..

I think that you are making decisions based on fear, and you have zero clue as to why you are afraid ...

And I think that you use that fear as a tool to tuck yourself away in your nice little cozy place so that you do not have to face yourself..

Gordie.....you aren't happy with yourself right now, let alone the situation that you have allowed yourself to continue.

You keep making decisions based on everything except Gordie, and you hide behind those decisions.

Being the Martyr is only gonna last for so long.

What are you left with after that ??

Your fear keeps you hidden away from any type of real happiness.

The bad part is...??

That you know that..

And before you think that I am pushing you to move out still, or whatever.

This isn't about that at all...

I support you fully in whatever you decide to do..

AS LONG AS YOU ARE WORKING TOWARD FINDING PEACE AND HAPPINESS...

But you aren't....



Can you tell me that you are EXCITED to come home every night ??

So, tell me that I am wrong...

Tell me to F off...

Tell me something......


What are you so afraid of ???

Are you afraid of being Divorced ??

Alone ??

A single parent ??

What are you so afraid of ????

Why are you so afraid of yourself ???

[Ginger1]

^^^^^^^^ BINGO^^^^^^^^^^

If you can say one thing that would really make you happy right now that you have control of, what would it be? ANd what fear is holding you back from making that happen?