Hi PsySara, one of my friends recommended a book called "He's Scared, She's Scared" by Steven Carter and Julia Sokol. She suggested that my husband is afflicted by "commitment conflict," which is what the book is about. After reading it I'm not sure if that's the source of the problem in my relationship but since your husband seems to follow a pattern of pulling closer and then pulling away I thought I'd share the name of this book in case you want to consider it, among other things.
Everyone posting wants the same thing, happiness with a spouse. I think that even the WAS wants that, albeit their perspective is always much different than the LBS.
I wanted to say that I admire you for lasting this long and continue to support the DB efforts.
It has been two years now that my xW has left the boys and me. I would like to share some things that maybe others have not. Since my D was final I have travelled down somewhat of a dark road and have finally gotten to a point where I feel confident with who I am.
I have also found that there are a lot of families that may not follow the traditional societal norm. The obvious norm is that the H and W work things out and stay together or the other is to D. Although everyone would prefer the former vs. the latter, I learned that there is a minority of families that have chosen another option, open marriage.
I am not suggesting that anyone choose this option but it is an alternative. Does it last for the sake of the kids? I have heard stories from friends where the parents stayed together yet lived separate social lives until their children became adults. They were able to balance family life yet found a way to meet their needs separately with others.
I have also heard situations where this has failed after a few years and the spouses ultimately divorced.
No matter how perfect in the DB process the LBS is, if the WAS’s perspective of the LBS is that they are flawed or that the WAS feels they are unhappy in the M, the chance for success in saving the M is low.
Forget what your H is doing or not doing. Continue to focus on you and get what you want out of life while still being kind and loving to your children and the loved ones around you.
I have learned a lot from my boys this past year. They are strong boys and all they want to know is they are loved, no matter if xW is around or not. For me, I find happiness in their smiles. I GAL every so often for me. I have and continue to get help for them and myself so that the six of us can be mentally and emotionally strong. This is my family now and I would not give up the bond I am developing with them for anything.
Would I prefer it to be different, yes, but I will try my best to be have us be the best family we can be. Our bonus would be having a female in our lives to share our experiences.
Map out YOUR plan Sara and you will succeed for yourself and your children.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
I'm exhausted from being outside in the nice Florida weather with the kids all afternoon so I'll make this brief. WH continues to be aloof, unengaged and basically just phoning it in. I've made some rookie errors and tried to engage him in talks just to see him retreat further. So I'm just letting go of the rope again and will put him and "us" on the back burner. I'm not even sure there is an "us" to be frank. Seems more to be a "me" with some guy just floating in the background.
I will be returning to the gym to work on this not-so-flat stomach, get my hair done this week and my legs waxed. I don't need validation from this @sshole to feel good about myself. I also plan on doing some poking around and see if I can find a place in another hospital that will give me a lower census and some better pay. Don't get me wrong, my pay is fine but I was promised a census of 16-17 and I am dealing with 20+ patients consistently as well as running our outpatient clinic with no extra pay. I can do better. WH's birthday is in 2 days and I will buy him something he's been asking for for about 6 months, not expensive and actually useful. But I am not going to do any surprises or go the extra mile. It's what I would do for a roommate so not really going out of my way.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
I didn't get a chance to write on my thread yet but I made some realizations in the past few days. It sounds like you're doing the right thing. On the other hand, I believe your husband loves you. I believe he's struggling but you can't give up on him. He's still there with you. It's not too late. Maybe he does need some space but I'd say just to do loving things for him sparingly, flatter him with compliments, flash him some beautiful smiles, and give him some space. He still loves you. I'd do anything to be in your position because your marriage can be saved and happy again. Just tell him how great he is and give him a foot massage without asking anything more. Give it some time. You two will be together!
PsySara, I had meant for a while to read some of your earlier threads and I tried to do so tonight. I still didn't get through too much but I saw that you had heart damage and a lot of physical symptoms from all this. That's so similar to what I experienced. I was getting runs of PVC's and chest pain. The last stress echo I did almost three years ago was normal and I'm supposed to have another one but I've had so many stomach problems I haven't had time for heart problems. I'm not aware of having physical damage to my heart but definitely for a while I thought I'd have sudden cardiac death from the runs of PVC's where I almost fainted. Thankfully I haven't had that now in over a year.
I don't know Sara. Your life has been crazy. How can you have three kids, go to medical school, and have a job where you have 20+ patients per day? My husband has been getting 38 patients per day and going to nursing homes after that, so I can imagine he's beyond stressed and he's working seven days per week. But he has no other responsibilities whereas you have THREE kids! I, on the other hand, currently have serious trouble loading the dishwasher despite previously working multiple consulting jobs and long hours before having my daughter.
It just feels like this is a phase of life that isn't conducive to marriage. If you have the ability to afford it you should really take some time off! Reduce your hours to part-time or do outpatient or simply take six months off completely. Your whole perspective and life could change with some time to think although it's understandable if you can't take time off.
It seems like your life has been in crisis mode for so long. Your husband's affair scarred the marriage so deeply, just like my husband's affair scarred mine. I can only tell you from my experience, with my husband now planning for divorce, that it's devastating when everything, EVERYTHING, you've worked for is about to be gone. You've worked so hard to keep your family together. Your husband is still there. My outside opinion is to keep him and cherish him as much as possible until this phase in life passes. Then you can re-evaluate.
I hope you're doing well otherwise! I know I'm not in a position to help much but I'm someone who would do anything to stay married. I have another set of friends who were fighting so badly it became domestic violence (physicians too) but they fixed their otherwise hopeless marriage. They eventually accepted there will be cycles of fighting and knew they could handle the difficult times after going through them for so long. Now they actually love each other again. You and your husband have been through a lot and you can make it through this in my opinion. It seems if you adjust your expectations and have more patience, on top of the patience you've had, you'll find in five years that it was worth it.
I don't know, I am not really feeling loved by my husband. Rather I feel he tolerates me and on a good day he may actually act like he likes me. But overall he remains the same person despite the few times he promises to give me what I need in this marriage. I am realizing that I continue to settle for crumbs in hopes of somehow saving this marriage.
I continue to work on myself but the resentment builds and builds. He comes home from work, grunts at me and barely engages. He's returned to simply criticizing whatever he perceives as a deficiency and barely acknowledges all I do in the house. I do all the housework, 90% of the child care in the evenings and keep up on all the basic stuff. I keep myself attractive and smelling good, meanwhile he falls asleep on the couch, or the spare bedroom floor and just mopes about. I've tried approaching him gently on how alone and sad I feel about this chasm between us but he basically sits with his eyes closed and mumbles some responses.
It's getting to the point where I can't even feel bad about divorcing this man. I feel relief when I think about no longer wondering when the other shoe is going to drop. I feel a weight lift when I think about no longer having to "fake it till I make it." I can start having friends and family over, something I have avoided because he does not like having visitors.
Tonight I took care of everything by myself and WH worked late, something he's been doing a lot of. He demanded why I didn't text him and tell him I didn't cook dinner. This is weird because he will either eat late or text me on the way home to see if dinner is here or if he needs to pick something up. I feel like he is looking for reasons to yell at me. He griped at me a few minutes after I showed him a sweatshirt I bought for him as a surprise. I felt really hurt and angry. I am pouring my heart and soul into this marriage and he returns a tepid response at best. I have a timeline in my head, I will simply drop the hammer if that deadline comes and he is still acting like this. I think if I finally green light the divorce there is NOTHING he can do or say to turn my mind around.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
Ok, but what are you going to do when the cycle repeats again? People keep mentioning it and you ignore it. I get that it is your right, but please understand that it is pointed out because sometimes people further removed from a given situation can see patterns where people in the throes cannot.
If you file again, he will be nice, you will have second thoughts because you are a great mom and someone who honors vows. You will fight for your marriage. He will go through the motions. Then he will stop and you will become frustrated and return back to this point.
What can you do differently in your part, to either ensure a different result, or at least to get to a different point in the dance where he has to respond differently? I'm not saying I know the answer, I just hate seeing you bang your head against the wall and I lived this exact life and pattern for 5-6 years until I discovered a hidden 3 year affair and his hostility was so offensive that it destroyed everyone in the home and my children asked me to make him leave.
Mine is also a doctor, highly intelligent, very narcissistic (sorry Vanilla, I get to say that), and extremely passive aggressive. I am also a professional (an attorney), extremely pro-marriage, and someone who absolutely hates to give up on people. I still hold out some hope for his relationship with his children, but right now he is in replay city and has no concern for them whatsoever.
Honestly I feel I've tried every single thing to turn this around. DBing is about making yourself a better person that only a fool would leave. I've marinated in the teachings, one thing is for sure, the board describes very different techniques than the books and videos. I've tempered my anger, worked on my gentleness and openness (these are all 180s for me) and buttoned my lips when my impulse is to verbally lash out. I've followed the guidance of my DBing coach and even he seems to have run out of ideas in the end. I haven't even used my last session because the advice and guidance was becoming repetitive.
I went back over my old notes and find I am following the guidelines for "influencing" my husband to turn back towards our marriage. I've kept the road paved back home and he just sits at the end of the street not moving towards me. I've read a dozen books, hundreds of threads and postings, watched videos and been receptive to change within myself. I've faced some hard truths about myself and worked on them. I am SO ANGRY at myself for choosing this man to father my children. I chose him because I thought he was one of the most honest, loyal, faithful and kind people I had ever met. He is unrecognizable to me now. I know we aren't supposed to file until we feel neutral about it but I am furious and it's starting to effect me again. I don't know why I am posting, I just feel so...despondent.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
Then maybe asking him to leave the home and work on himself and to figure out what he wants and not to come back until he has a game plan and a proven track record over a longer period of time is the game changer that you are looking for.
I so relate to the anger at yourself. I feel that I cheated my children. I chose a monster who has no feelings and can't give them what they need. I hope yours does better than mine going forward.
I will tell you that all is not lost. I have one child at Juilliard and another who, after a disastrous 8th grade year, looks like he is going to come up with a 4.0 for his first semester of 9th grade at the best school in our state with a desire to attend Princeton.
Children can thrive in a household with one parent who loves them, cares to their needs, and guides them with boundaries and strength.
We are so much closer now. They have told me that they now view both of us as human beings and not "parents". I think that is a good thing. They see that people are not perfect, that things go wrong, and that bad times can be overcome.
