Newbie In Need Of Guidance

[sandi2]

I was afraid you would say that. In your opinion, does that make this process harder or easier?

I guess I read what you meant the wrong way. She is lying to herself. It's part of her waywardness, just like the tremendous resentment she holds, and just like her blaming you for everything that goes wrong. Maybe she means it when she says it, but it is still a lie. The why could be for a couple of reasons. When she comes out of her fantasy, she'll have to admit the truth to herself.....or choose to operate on a lie. That's one of the things that will determine if she returns all the way.......or not. That is why a LBH should never take back his WW until she does the necessary work on her heart. Otherwise, he won't have his old W, he'll have a WW who has not shed her resentment. Her bad behavior will begin again if he takes her back too easily.

More to show sympathy, really. I know how aggravating it is to have chargers disappear because mine have gone missing quite a few times. I was trying to convey that I understood her frustration. I should have just said it instead of acting on it too?

When she wants to blame everyone else rather than taking responsibity, I don't agree with showing sympathy. I saw it as you trying to rescue her. Not your job.

You mentioned earlier a Transparency Plan. I am not seeing anything on this here. I see "transparency" but no referrals to "plan."

I will try to explain tomorrow.

Will I get to it in the DR book?

No.

[sandi2]

Do not discuss a transparency plan, unless she agrees to end the A. At that time, you can tell her that in order to heal from the infidelity, you want her to follow a plan of transparency, until you can trust her again. She cannot just pick up where the MR left off. There's been too much damage. If she's not sincerely remorseful, then she has no intention of changing. The more the W protest against it, the more likely she won't cooperate or be honest.

When the W agrees to end her A, it must be done quickly. There is no tapering off. There is no affair "closure", so don't agree for her to see him "just one more time". She needs to write a letter to OM (with the H telling her what she needs to enclose. It should meet his approval before sending it.) She should tell the OM it was all a terrible mistake, that she loves her H, and that the OM can never contact her again. She should not express any feelings for the OM. Keep it short and to the point. Then the H watches as she deletes all history of OM and her messages. She blocks OM from her phone, social media, email, etc. This is very important. If she works with him, she immediately submits her resignation and finds employment elsewhere. She cannot work with OM and just be "friends". She can never see him!

She has to agree to do what the H needs to feel emotionally safe again, and to earn back the trust she lost. The W cannot tell the H what she'll do and not do. The H lays out the plan.....not the WW. She gives all him all her passwords. She deletes any computer/phone apps that aides in affairs (that don't leave proof of messages, etc.) She has to agree that her H can look at her messages from time to time. She agrees to give accountability for her time and whereabouts as long as H needs to know. If she works with the OM or is in his social group, she must leave that employment and stop engaging in the social group. This may also require her to delete certain groups from her social media.
And anything else the H needs in order to feel that she is working to earn back his trust. He may need to look at her credit card purchases, and well as other receipts. These are ways she is as open about her activities as possible. This requires tremendous cooperation from her. She needs to know it will not be for the rest of her life, but for as long as you need. It requires her to be honest, at least to a degree. I know that there are other ways to deceive, but if she is serious about saving the M, then she needs to work with her H on being transparent. He is not the one who must prove anything. She is the one who was unfaithful, and she is the one who has the burden of proof. She should never get away with telling him, "You'll just have to trust me". No, he doesn't have to trust her, especially if she's not putting in the effort to show accountability.

Affairs (PA/EA/IA) are highly addictive. Even if she agrees to end her A, when she begins to crave attention from OM, she'll do most anything to make some sort of contact. Even seeing his photo can trigger the emotional cravings. It usually lasts for several months, but if she ever makes contact, it puts her back to square one again. If she'll follow the transparency plan, she will gradually lose her emotional feelings for the OM. Most WW's are not keen to any transparency plan, but it is needed in order to hold her feet to the fire and get her through the addiction.

During the transparency, the H should support his W as much as possible. However, he must remain firm and insist she follows through, even when she's being nice/sweet. He cannot trust her. He cannot just take her word anymore. People say that if the WW wants to have an A that she'll figure out a way. That is true, however, if she repents from her waywardness and the fact she brought a third party into the MR......she will need to have some type of system that will help her get back to the woman she once was. She should be told that transparency is to help her, as well as helping the H. Everyone needs accountability, especially after there has been an act of betrayal. If she won't agree to transparency, then there is no reason to believe her intentions to do what is necessary to save the M. Frankly, I don't have much hope for the WW who does not engage in transparency.

It is an emotionally rough time for both the H and W. The W will resemble someone going through withdrawals of drugs. She will get depressed, be angry at times, etc. If she acts as if she's happy and all is well on earth, then she's probably contacting OM, or he has reached out to her. The first couple of months are the hardest. It's like hard withdrawals. The time frame it takes to completely be out of the withdrawal stages will vary on the individual. If she backslides, she has to start all over again.

Withdrawals are not all the work the W will need to do to be ready to roll up her sleeves and work on the MR. She may need IC. I recommend the couple find an excellent pro-marriage therapist, preferably one who specializes in healing after infidelity. The couple who doesn't get guidance from a professional, stands less chance of staying together, IMHO. She has too many issues that need to heal. He will discover that many feelings will hit him after she agrees to work on the M. It's almost like a delayed reaction, and many H's become a WAH, if they don't receive help.

One more thing about the transparency plan. I do not recommend the H asks the W to let him see her phone. I don't recommend he looks at it at the same time, or even every day. She's too smart for that. Look at her phone when she doesn't know it, or at least, not expecting it. She should not look at it before handing it over to him. It only gives her time to delete things. And yes, some H's have be tricked this way. It's better if he just looks at it occasionally, and not make any comments. If she's not being honest, she'll eventually slip and he'll catch it. If she volunteers for him to look at it, that's fine. He can look and then thank her. He should never act self righteous, or as if he is her lord and master. He is not there to punish her. He is trying to help her.

[rminer]

Thanks, sandi. That helps.


Question for you.

Up until last Sunday when I started trying to fully implement these steps, my wife and I would text a bit during the day. I was usually the one who initiated. When I would send one, I would be to check to see how her day is going, say I'm thinking of her, etc. I usually got short responses, occasionally something longer an more meaningful.

Since Sunday I have stopped that. On Thursday I sent her a text with some information she would need. Nothing personal, just business and it was kept to just one sentence. She was not expecting this text.

She responded with "Ok, thank you." and then followed up with "Thought you lost my number." After a few minutes I replied "You're welcome." and "Nope. Still in my memory."

What was the purpose of "Thought you lost my number?" My first thought was a temp. check, but it was only the fifth day, so I would think it would be way too soon for something like that.

Was she saying she WANTS me to text her, just messing with me or getting a dig in? The comment surprised me a bit.

[LH19]

R,

Temp check. She doesn’t want anything thing fuching up her current situation. She wants you still attached to her so you will continue to financially support her do things around the house take care of the kids etc while she’s running around with and texting OM for her excitement and emotional support needs.

Also to top it off she wants to be sure your around as plan B in case it doesn’t work out with OM.

What Accuray posted on your thread is pure gold. The problem is it takes newbies a long time to realize they shouldn’t put up with BS. You most likely will get to a place when you realize you love and value yourself too much to tolerate this blatant disrespect.

By your demeanor in your posts I can tell you will get there sooner than later.

[rminer]

I was completely unprepared for her to say what she said, so there is know way I would have though to respond the way Accuracy recommended. My W takes crap from no one - except me when she knows she is wrong - but in this case she is so blinded, I don't think she would have cared. She most likely would have called me out on that response.

Now that I'm getting my feet under me a bit here, I hope I will have the "right" thing to say next time.

By your demeanor in your posts I can tell you will get there sooner than later.

I hope you are right. I sure don't feel like I will get there at this point.

[TBSakaJ9]

It takes time, eventually you will get to a point to where you are fine with either outcome (D or Recon) and/or you start to question whether or not you would want to recon.

About 3 months ago my W told me she was ready to move forward and I told her to let me know what time works best so we can discuss. She never responded to me and hasn't brought it up since. The quicker you can get to a place of confidence the better off you will be equipped to handle her temp checks.

[Salazar]

I was completely unprepared for her to say what she said, so there is know way I would have though to respond the way Accuracy recommended. My W takes crap from no one - except me when she knows she is wrong - but in this case she is so blinded, I don't think she would have cared. She most likely would have called me out on that response.

Now that I'm getting my feet under me a bit here, I hope I will have the "right" thing to say next time.

Rminer: When I read your first post, parts of what you said sounded like they were in my wife's voice. Meeting young and then eventually growing apart. My wife said she feels like a different person than she was when we met, much as it sounds your wife is. Finding your own value and working on your self is the best thing I can recommend now. I keep reminding myself that when I was dating my wife, there was a bit of a challenge there (she did not know everything I was thinking at all times).

[LH19]

R,

Ok let’s say you said that and she didn’t care. How does that change the situation your in right now? Either way she’s still with OM right? But one way you stick up for yourself which again communicates that you love and value yourself and you are not willing to share her with another man.

You can’t nice your way back. You also can’t turn a blind eye. Read Chris73s thread or PEW1974.

Look man I know this is hard but things are going to have to get worse before they get better.

[rminer]

I know you are right, but I just can't let myself see anything but recon at this point. I don't want this to become a self fulfilling prophecy in the negative way.

As far as confidence goes, mine is completely shaken and I'm looking for a way to get it back. I used to brag ro people that I KNEW my W would always be there for me and have my back. Look where we are now. From what I've gathered here, GAL is the best way to do that, but it is proving to be harder than I thought, so I'm faking it this point. I'll find something, but until then that's all I can do.

[rminer]

You are right. It wouldn't have changed much except maybe her physical location and forcing th BD. Either way she is with him.

I will look for those threads. Thanks.