You are doing it again... Explaining away things on her behalf... She really doesn't need to bother defending herself because you do it for her... Well, here you are and here you will be because when the rubber hits the road, this "friendship" marriage is what you will settle for. Did you ever see the movie CLIFFHANGER" with Sylvester Stallone? There is a scene where Sylvester Stallone is trying to rescue his friend's gf, but she won't let go to give him her hand... She's too scared. She falls to her death.
Until you let go of your friendship marriage, you will not have what you really want in a marriage. She feels she is doing ENOUGH, and you told her no, and she doesn't seem willing to do more... The ball is in your court...
I am not at surprised at her response to you... And I am not surprised at your reaction. You were not ready to have this conversation... I believe a few of us told you that.
We have gone through this exercise before, actually, with the help of the MC. We actually both want pretty much the same things in a MR... including the intimacy. But that doesn't mean she wants that with ME. I thought that was the whole point of getting her to say she was committed. (?) What good does it do to discuss what she wants (which i pretty much know already anyway) if she doesn't want it with me?
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
You are doing it again... Explaining away things on her behalf... She really doesn't need to bother defending herself because you do it for her...
Oh good grief sometimes you people have worse "tunnel vision" than my buddy who's married to my W's bff. I can't post anything even remotely about W sometimes without someone jumping up like Perry Mason and pointing at me with "a-HA! There you go defending her again!!""
Did you miss the part where Ginger asked why i felt like i felt? Did you miss the latter, and most important part of my post, the conclusion:
Quote:
but i definitely think, given the number of "wrong turns" and "missed exits" she's had over the past couple of months that have put her out on the West side of town near OMs hangout, that that relationship is still pulling at her, and also that she does have some hang ups that are keeping her from being fully committed to being intimate with me.
...where i SAY i "definitely think" that she is not fully committed?
I'm just not going to say W's name around here at all anymore unless it's to say what 'ho she is or something. Yeesh.
This REALLY frustrates me.
Quote:
And I am not surprised at your reaction.
And are you really saying i should NOT be upset/sad/whatever that my W does not want to commit to having a fully intimate marriage with me? Sorry, I ain't Spock, nor will i ever be. I regard a split as basically the end for us, and i explained this pretty well before on this forum, after a couple of failed attempts (Sandi, at least, seemed to get it.)
Don't know why i shouldn't be allowed to mourn and have my sadness over it. If i choose to be sad over it, i think that's being pretty honest. I for one am not afraid of my emotions.
Last edited by Cadet; 01/18/1803:34 AM. Reason: Combine posts
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
We have gone through this exercise before, actually, with the help of the MC. We actually both want pretty much the same things in a MR... including the intimacy. But that doesn't mean she wants that with ME. I thought that was the whole point of getting her to say she was committed. (?) What good does it do to discuss what she wants (which i pretty much know already anyway) if she doesn't want it with me?
What she wants with YOU! Not just in a Marriage. What she wants to achieve with YOU, her husband! Not with some other guy or in her imaginary fantasy.
I seriously think this is a worthwhile discussion.
I regard a split as basically the end for us, and i explained this pretty well before on this forum, after a couple of failed attempts (Sandi, at least, seemed to get it.)
Why Jim? Why do you have to decide right now a decision you might get to make in the future? You do not know how you will feel in the future, if you separate and DB yourself, you will feel much different than you do right now. You have two ex-WW telling you that if you want a real marriage, you are likely going to need to separate, each find yourselves and then decide if you want to find each other again later. So by you making the decision that you will never go back to her, you are basically changing your options to leave her forever or accept a friendship marriage. Neither of those are good choices to make right now.
Originally Posted By: hoosjim
This really really feels yucky and wrong, and I pray to God I am doing the right thing here and, if not,that he will help bail me out from my ineptitude...
She’s not been giving you the M you want to be in, is not accepting that wrong?
Originally Posted By: hoosjim
My other question for all is: Now that I have dropped this bomb, how should i be acting around her, demeanor-wise.
If you’re deciding not to accept a friendship marriage, then don’t act, but start moving on.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Actually, artista, you have been tremendously helpful... but that one "issue" is one that is simply not going to resonate with me. Not anymore at least. I can obviously see the utility in not making up excuses for the baf behavior of a WW, or of not giving a WW a pass on such behavior. Good. Fine. Understood. But for me to say part of me feels sad about a conversation and then, when asked "why", for me to cast around and say "in some respects things were working, were nice, and maybe, just maybe (further caveats with "IDK"), my W thought that what she was doing constituted "commitment" but that, in the end it DID NOT MATTER because it wasnt commitment in my eyes or even objectively...just plain out flat is not excusing or excuse-making...under any reasonable definition I can think of. Nor can "helping" me to not type out something like the above have, as near as I can discern, any measurable affect on either my own happiness or my MR's chances at success.
I sm mo einstein but in some select arenas i have been blessed with brilliance. Same as my son who is following the path that i perhaps should have taken to engineering: I see connections. And pilossibilities. In things, devices, people, words... And while i can choose how i process that info to a certain extent, I cannot turn off those synapsed. Nor would I want to.
When someone asks me why I feel a certain way, I will tell them, and, if the explanation involves a possibility I have seen, perhaps even an unlikely one or one with which I don't agree, I will often offer that up as well. INHO, I am fully capable of doing that without swooning at my WW's feet and buying all that she says hook line and sinker.
So, in sum: I very much appreciate your help and insight, and you are always welcome on my thread and I would be honored and continually happy to haverify you here and contributing. Just please understand that, in a lot of cases recently the "stop excusing your WW" pleas/accusations have not resonated with me and are unlikely to do so unless the case is much more obvious.
and
That it frustrates me because I feel like people are bias that way when reading my threads due to my past reputation.
Last edited by Cadet; 01/18/1807:21 AM. Reason: Combine posts
Jim, I'm obviously not there on a day-to-day basis watching what happens between you and W, but it sounded to me like y'all were making some really good progress. I don't know if you remember but I suggested postponing that conversation and giving it some more time to see how things develop for fear of your W seeing you as being too pushy and impatient. Her response is exactly what I thought might happen.
I'm reading a lot of the advice you're getting here and just kind of biting my tongue, I really don't understand why everyone here is so convinced your W needs to engrave a plaque stating that she is contractually bound to working on the M. Her actions say she is ALREADY working on the M, and what do we always say here? Actions speak louder than words, right? So why do you need her to say the words so bad? Looking at this from your W's perspective, I think she's saying "I already told you I'm committed to the M, and I'm already showing you I am, so why do you keep beating me over the head with this?"
Since you're getting conflicting info here maybe it would be a good time to invest in a DB'ing coach for some advice, it sounds like you are confused on how to proceed.
My other question for all is: Now that I have dropped this bomb, how should i be acting around her, demeanor-wise. I didn't feel like last night was staged or affected or faked in any way-- i really was bothered and hurt that she didnt or couldnt say those words "Im committed" even as she tried to imply that she was, and I really felt like i didn't want to "be" with her in the MBR.
I'm sorry it did not go better for you. I really don't think you need to initiate another talk. I know you want to.......but you are too frustrated and upset. You first need to step back and cool down. She said everything you predicted she would say, so don't push for more talk.....at least for a few days.
As to how to act around her, I think you should be quiet. Maybe get out of the house and give her space for a few days. See if she approaches you with more than she gave you in the talk. If not.........then you can decide the next step.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
