Newbie In Need Of Guidance

[rminer]

I will read up on that a bit first.

I have to say you are handling this well most guys are a complete mess when they get here!

Thanks, but I am a mess on the inside. Don't think I haven't lost it once or twice. With the household I grew up in, I learned long ago how to control my emotions. I have become very good at focusing on a task and blocking the emotional side out when necessary.

Just trying to keep myself together for the kids, although I do think at least two of them know what is going on.

[Joe2017]

RM:
We have all been in the same place.

You have to take a step back. Replace YOU with HER when she tells you things. She will project her feelings.

You have to do the opposite of what you think is right, right now. You want to give her a hug? She will hate it. You want to remind her of good times? She will say something awful.

So stop it. What you want to do will NOT bring about the response you expect and only frustrate you.

[sandi2]

I do stand up to her, but most of my work day is spent standing up to people. I do tend to pick and choose my battles at home. Maybe a little too much? I do get what you are saying though.

Good, I'm glad you understand. And, I understand having to deal with people on your job all day, and just wanting a little peace when you get home.

Well, I would begin with not accepting any of her outward disrespect toward you, especially in front of your children. If she puts you down, makes demands, bosses you around, talks down to you, raises her voice, curses, mocks you, makes you the butt of a joke in front of others, calls you names, stomps her feet or snaps her fingers at you, talks at you through the kids ("Tell your father such & such") when she is right there in the same room......are some examples of showing disrespect. Many H's are so conditioned to behavior like this, until they act as if they can't see she is disrespecting him. Over time, her level of disrespect increases, and if the H does nothing about it, the MR will suffer. Woman was designed to where her loving feelings for her H is tied to her respect for him. (You can read more in my WW threads.) If you know how to handle bullies at work, you'll know how to stand up to your W. She won't like it, b/c she's gone so many years doing it, but if you tell her you won't be talked to in that manner (or whatever she's doing), she will respect you for standing up to her.

There is a link about boundaries in the homework Cadet sent you. Read it carefully, b/c you need to understand the difference in boundaries from ultimatums; how to state a boundary; and how to enforce it. With most WW's I've read about, the H has to be prepared to enforce his boundary if it's not honored.

From this point forward, I hope your actions will be from the standpoint of how you can gain the respect of your W. If you gain her respect, you'll gain her love. In everything you do, every interaction with her......ask yourself if she can see a strong, confident man. A WW respects one thing......strength. So, instead of trying to prove how much you love her.....you need to prove your male dominance.....as the head of your home, the H, and the father. You are the leader at your address. One of the biggest reasons a W loses respect for her H is his lack of male dominance. That doesn't mean you become a bully. It means you start showing your children the role of the man in the home. Don't leave all the decisions up to your W. Don't give in to everything she wants, just to keep her in a better mood. A WW hates passivity in a man. It's just a guess that with her dominating personality, you have given her the rule of house and she makes most every decision around the home and kids.....and maybe more, while you do your thing when you come home from work.

You will be required to do things that feel completely opposite of what you've heard or read in some magazine article or the latest book about how to have a more loving MR. By the time people get to this board, their MR is in crisis. Your W is not who you thought she was, nor who you want her to be. Your actions and interactions with her can heavily influence the outcome of this crisis.

How do I get her emotionally engaged again and change her mindset? Do I just wait it out?

No, you don't just wait it out. I address your question in my WW threads.

By not telling her and showing her that I love her, wouldn't that just be confirming what she is saying? She already has said I don't want/love/care. After I have been telling her and trying to show her I love her at least twice a day every day for all of these years (I have NEVER missed a day), it would seem that she would just use that action to say "See? I told you so!"

This is a common concern newcomer LBH's have. Let me try to give a short explanation. The complaints she may have given you, probably come from her unfulfilled emotional needs in the past. But currently, another man is filling those emotional needs. You are not to compete with another man for your own W. Men often get into that "winning the girl" competitive thinking.....and it's not how you need to handle the sitch with your W. I understand how you want to fix the problem and start jumping through rings of fire to get her to change her mind. But it won't happen the way you are currently operating. The more you try to romance her, buy flowers, do more housework, make brownie points with her......the less interested she will be in you. She may use the old complaints as her current reasons......but that's b/c she can't tell you the truth. She is wayward and has allowed another man into the M.

If you are recommending "going dark," which is what it appears she has done to me, it seems that it would just feed in to her notions that I have stopped caring.

No, actually I don't encourage anyone to go dark as long as they are living under the same roof. That's just me, but going dark is like falling off the planet. Kind of difficult when you share children.
However, I do encourage you to follow the 37 rules. If you have questions about any of them, please ask.

You must get past your fear that she may think you don't care. You must get past your fear that she may leave the M. Maybe I should say, do it in spite of the fear. IMHO, the number one problem I see with newcomer LBH's is their fear of losing the W. That fear will paralyze you if you don't get a handle on it quickly. And besides, she isn't too worried if you still care about her. In fact, she is not worried she could lose you due to her affair. Would it be a deal breaker for you if she doesn't end the affair?

I've read it, and I'm trying to wrap my head around it. It is completely foreign and makes very little sense to me, but I will trust you on that and try to understand it as hard as it is.

Well, I'm not the best writer for sure, but I'm sorry it made no sense. Are you referring to my description of a wayward wife, or how a H should respond to his WW? Please ask questions about anything that doesn't make sense. There are several threads, and the last page gives the link to the next thread.

It's difficult, for me, to cover everything in just a handful of posts. So, I'm not trying to ignore or skip over your questions. It just takes time. That's one reason I decided to write those threads.

BTW, don't repeat to your W what you read on the board. Unless you are told to say specific words to her, please don't try repeating something that you think is profound......b/c it won't have that affect on her. It won't make any sense to her. That's when WW's start saying the H is fake and isn't talking naturally.

[rminer]

Well, I'm not the best writer for sure, but I'm sorry it made no sense. Are you referring to my description of a wayward wife, or how a H should respond to his WW? Please ask questions about anything that doesn't make sense. There are several threads, and the last page gives the link to the next thread.

It's not your writing. It's the concept of what to do and what you say she is thinking. It seems completely backwards to me, and I don't understand how someone could risk destroying their family like this. In one of her texts she told the OM that "everyone is going to hate me after this," so she knows the potential consequences.

It's difficult, for me, to cover everything in just a handful of posts. So, I'm not trying to ignore or skip over your questions. It just takes time. That's one reason I decided to write those threads.

I know you answer a lot of questions on here, so I do appreciate the time you are giving me.

One thing you didn't answer though. Would it be wise to try to talk to her about "us," or the A (without proof)? Should I just let her know I will talk when she is ready and let her come to me?

[petri]

One thing you didn't answer though. Would it be wise to try to talk to her about "us," or the A (without proof)? Should I just let her know I will talk when she is ready and let her come to me?

No it wouldn't. She'll come to you if she'll come to you. No R convos. But that's just my opinion.

[sandi2]

Well thanks, that helps me to hear you say it. I know it makes no sense to you, but if you will always remember that her thoughts are not logical. That's why we say not to believe anything she says, and only half of what you see with your own eyes. BTW, that is a metaphor. If you can get your head around the fact she is not logical, then that might help you.

The next thing that may aide you in understanding her mindset, is that she is completely selfish. If she cannot benefit from a situation in some manner, she's not interested. Selfishness is her main motivator. Even if she was never self centered in the past, she is now.

You just have to continue to remind yourself that she is not the girl you M.

One thing you didn't answer though. Would it be wise to try to talk to her about "us," or the A (without proof)? Should I just let her know I will talk when she is ready and let her come to me?

I always thought issues could be worked through if people would just talk it out. But guess what? I was wrong! Although you will be tempted to have a relationship discussion, don't do it. Know why? B/c the LBS never accomplishes anything by talking to the wayward spouse. It is a complete waste of time, and can even cause the sitch to be set back. He may feel emotionally better afterwards, but she'll pull away the next day. All the WW understands is action. She won't hear what you say, but she watch your actions. Let your actions be your conversation.

Never confront her just to let her know that you know what she's doing. Not unless you have a plan of action to follow. B/c if she knows that you know she's in an affair....and yet you are sticking around.....then her disrespect goes through the roof. You can't reason with her, and by trying to do so only makes you appear as though you are trying to change her mind. She will be highly resistant to your persuasion.

Continue to read. Set personal goals. When you get enough information, you can put together a plan of action. But the first step is getting informed. Don't jump into anything you don't understand. Too many H's acted before they understood the ramifications.....and then suffered the consequences. Don't make matters worse by not knowing what you are doing.

Have you read the 37 rules? Any questions?

I think reading about DBing detaching, and setting boundaries is something you need to do right away. IMHO, those are more important than trying to read through everyone's thread. Don't have the idea that some of those links don't apply to your sitch.

[rminer]

I am reading here. A LOT.

I have read your 37 rules. That is the backwards part to me. I don't have any questions yet, but I will let you know.

I actually "started" implementing them today. I did not contact her at all today. She did text me about some things at home and I gave only the necessary info. to end the communication.

The thing that makes me the most nervous about it is that she won't know WHY I am doing it if we don't have the R discussion and she doesn't know that I know about the A. She is doing the exact same thing to me, so we could fall in to the hole of absolutely no communication if I am not careful. It is almost as if SHE has read the 37 Rules and is using them on ME!

But you are the expert, so here it goes...

[sandi2]

The thing that makes me the most nervous about it is that she won't know WHY I am doing it if we don't have the R discussion and she doesn't know that I know about the A.

Oh, she'll know! Besides, you aren't having conversations now, so why do you think you'll be able to have a R talk? As I previously stated, it won't get you any closer to resolving this problem.

I want to make sure you understand something about the 37 rules. They started out as bullet points, and therefore, not much explanation. Some people misunderstand and think they are being told they should act cold/angry. They think they aren't suppose to say a word to their spouse. That's not true. The picture your spouse needs to have of you is one who has a positive mental attitude, doesn't go around looking like he's lost his last friend, and one who has an agenda that does not include her.....an agenda she doesn't know about, and is not given any details. I'm talking about GAL. But I'll get into that subject later.

Yes, this sounds opposite of what seems logical to you. Remember, she doesn't think like you. She's not concerned about you, and frankly, not very interested. The first thing MWD tells us to do is stop being as available, and to step back and give the spouse space. Plenty of space. That includes texting throughout the day, following her around the house, crowding her with your presence, asking her a lot of questions, trying to engage her in a conversation, or trying to keep her hanging on the phone as you continue talking. When you start stepping back from her, she'll notice. She'll play dumb and ask you what's wrong, just like you've previously asked her. That's when you just look at her and say, "Should there be something wrong"? Or, you can say, "Nothing". She'll know!

Here's the thing, you don't want to appear as if you are not engaged with her b/c it's your way to punish her.....or b/c you're just a jerk. You want to appear as if you have other things on your mind, and that you are busy getting a life. When she sees she is not the center of your world, she'll have two reactions. She'll want to know why, and if she can't find out....she'll probably get mad. But that's okay, let her get mad. You aren't being hateful, but you aren't kissing her a$$, either. You are just......emotionally detached. What has your attention? The more she becomes interested in you, the more she'll be distracted by the OM. But I'll warn you, in all probability, it won't be as easy as it may sound and won't be happen quickly. You have to really work at it.

This may sound like a bunch of game playing, but I'm telling you what works and doesn't work. She has lost attraction for you. Therefore, you need to find the guy you once were and get that attraction going for you again. Not being available to her at all times, is one of the first steps. Doesn't sound like something a good H would do.....be unavailable, right? Well, she has fired you as her H.

In order to create a certain attraction, you will need to stop being available to her at the drop of a hat. I'm not say to ignore your responsibilities. I'm talking about doing personal favors for her. Catering to her, running errands, rescuing her, doing her work she left undone, grabbing the phone every time she calls, keeping the kids when she wants to go out to play at night, etc. Stop being a "Yes Dear" kind of H. Stop taking orders from her. You are not her employee.

Although you are a parent and have responsibilities, try hard to find the man you were before M, or become better. He's the guy she fell in love with, and she can do it again. First step is to get the attraction back.

[sandi2]

That includes texting throughout the day, following her around the house, crowding her with your presence, asking her a lot of questions, trying to engage her in a conversation, or trying to keep her hanging on the phone as you continue talking.

That should read, Not texting, etc.

[rminer]

Ok. First day to the 37 Rules is done. It felt wrong, but good at the same time.

To explain, I will start with Saturday. W texts me at work about something at home, so I respond within a few minutes. I know, mistake #1. During the conversation, I tell her to be careful when she goes out because the roads were terrible and that it took me an extra 45 minutes to get to work. Mistake #2. She relates to the comment and says it was like when she was driving to see her mother in the hospital every day last year in white out conditions. I compliment her, saying it was a good thing she did because a lot of people don’t bother to go see family in the hospital. Mistake #3. She said “that’s because people suck.” She opened the door wide open on this, so I couldn’t resist. I replied “I don’t know how people can do things to hurt the ones they are supposed to love.” I got no response from that one. Mistake #4, but I couldn’t resist the chance to add to her guilty conscious. The day did get better from there.

Later in the day she text to ask if I could pick up one of our daughters on the way home. Since I drive right by, I said I could. Once I got home, she was not there and I was told that she was out with one of her friends all day. I do a few things I needed to do around the house then got in to the shower. In the meantime, W comes home.

When I get out, I put on some nice clothes and start getting ready to go out for the evening. I was going to my company Christmas party, but she didn’t need to know that. W announced to me that she is going out, so I needed to make sure the kids were fed. I was almost ready to leave at this point. I simply said “You have been out enough lately and have been gone all day. It’s my turn.” I put on my coat and left. I rolled in about 3am with W “sleeping” on the couch.

The next morning, she was in the kitchen doing something and I went to get another cup of coffee. I greeted her with a simple “good morning.” All she could manage was giving me the Death Glare. I think I may have hit a nerve.

The rest of the day was a bit of nice/not nice by her. I was working outside and at one point opened the door and called to one of my kids to get a glass of water for me so I didn’t have to take my work clothes off. W said “I’ll get it” in a very cheerful manner and brought it to me. Later I needed a small tin, which she has many of. I asked if she had a spare, and she said “sure.” Got up found one for me and seemed happy to do it. Later, she made enough dinner for everyone – except me. I knew it was too good to last.
The rest of the day was only necessary communication. No hugs, kisses or “I love you.” First time I have not done those things since before we were married.

Not easy, but I did it.