Hi, Psysara... This is a season, a stage... At the beginning of coming back together, there is a giddiness... That lasts for a bit, but then the mundane comes in... And this may last for a very long time... You must determine what you are willing to endure to "hopefully" get what you want, which is not guaranteed...
In my opinion, the underlying issue is that you have always let your H back in rather easily... he says the right words, he demonstrates a token action or two... You have yet to require him to prove himself before you welcome him back... I think that is why he eventually slides back into old behaviors... You and hoosjim are sort of in the same predicament... You are sort of piecing by yourselves and experiencing little or no affection from your spouse...
Getting back to the spark, if you do get there, will require a lot of patience from you and your H... Getting there is worth it, but there are no guarantees... You must determine what you will be okay with... And you don't have to decide that now... You can keep going, and make your decisions along the way...
I really do hope you get the marriage you want... The marriage you have worked so hard for...
Given your response, I am going to ask you a tough question.
DO you like your H? Not love him, but like him as a person. Have you liked him for who he is? The person you want him to be, was he ever actually that person?
Because we cannot change who people are. I have seen marriages break because they hope eventually their spouse they envisioned them to be, not who they actually are.
There may have to be some acceptance of who is, the type of guy, H, and father he is, and if you could like the person that is. But odds are slim he is just going to become someone who you life if you didn't like him enough in the first place.
I wish I knew someone in real life that was able to recover their marriage and ask them how they were able to feel that sense of...fate? for each other? Forgive me while I just journal my thoughts about my musings...
...Is this is a season of life? Maybe? I am not making any sudden moves and still working on DBing.
It's hard. From the outside it's easy to share my thoughts, but you're the one that has to walk the road. Still, it's all I can do so here goes.
I believe that feelings follow behavior. I also believe that feelings aren't a good way to determine whether you should continue to invest effort into a marriage.
It's like investing in the stock market. First time investors buy a stock and then they check it hourly. They're told it's a long term investment but they can't help themselves, they keep refreshing values and fretting over what might happen. The seasoned investors have seen the highs and lows and can just make an investment and then let it stand for a year or two.
Instead of habitually evaluating your marital satisfaction, maybe you can look at it the same way. Like you know that the piecing road is going to be a difficult and painful one for a long time, but that you've decided that based on your beliefs you are committed to making the investment.
Then you can put your focus on not what you're getting out of the marriage, but whether you're doing everything you can to make the best investment possible. Are you being the best wife and mother and human you can be? Are you doing everything you can to show God and your husband your appreciation for your family? Not because you expect an immediate return of reciprocation or romantic feelings, but because this is what you were put here for (to appreciate what you were given and to give to those around you).
If you are doing everything you can be doing then choose to feel good because you are doing your best. Drop all expectations. Continue to GAL and meet your needs and make your own happiness. And continue to give your all to the M. Do this and maybe before you know it the seasons will turn and one morning you'll wake up and realize things are going good and will wonder when that happened.
Shoot, interrupted by life. Sounds like that's what you've been doing anyway. Keep up the great work, you're doing it right.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Sigh, so it goes. WH continues to be...disengaged? aloof? Not cold but definitely sort of checked out. He's not doing anything suspicious like phone hoarding or being defensive but it's like he is physically here and mentally far away. He's stopped touching me, doesn't really ask after me, and almost seems like he finds my body as attractive as a block of wood. It's going on 3 months since we last ML and I am at a loss as to what is going on. I tried to address it and he said he would "do his duty" if necessary. Well, that turned me off completely because I don't want intimacy to feel like a duty. It feels like rejection and it really hurts.
To give an idea, I weigh 120 lbs and am 5'1. I look around 30 even though I am 40. I get my hair professionally done and blown out, I dress nice both at home and work, wear makeup every day of the week, smell good (I really like lotions with light, warm scents) wear sexy underclothes and basically try to be the best wife possible. I smile more than frown and make light jokes about shared memories and experiences. He comes home, makes himself busy on his computer or playing with the kids or dogs and eventually falls asleep on the couch leaving me alone for a few hours before bedtime. On his days off he will lie down with the kids to put them asleep, doze off until my bedtime and then rise when I go to bed and play video games. I find myself frustrated with his avoidance and passivity, this was exactly what our marriage was like before Dday#1. Of course WH rewrote marital hx during his A and said I was not into doing things together, I just nagged about him not helping enough with the kids and chores and I didn't give enough sex. But in actuality it was like it is now, me trying to shore up our relationship and him just not....engaged. Of course my stupid brain will remember how he talked about staying up to the wee hours while they (he and OW) talked, how they liked the same things, blah blah blah. Why was he willing to go out on a limb with someone he knew 3 weeks and not even give a little bit with me? My resentment is building. I am starting to understand how WAWs happen. I have made huge changes and he has basically remained the same, no insight or introspection. HE just thinks our marriage will miraculously heal without him putting in any effort. He keeps waiting for a "feeling" to happen so he will suddenly be motivated to do the things I need to feel safe in this marriage.
Most of this is venting on here because I don't have anyone in real life with the background I've shared on this board. I keep making sure to reach out to friends, fill my days up with love, laughter and joy. But I am not happy in my marriage right now, I feel sad and empty when near him. No flirting, gentle words or acts of giving really seem to make a difference. He remains indifferent.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
This is exactly why a lot of folks have been silent since your last "reconnection" attempt. You keep thinking this is about you, what you are doing or not doing. It has nothing to do with you. It is about him. Only him.
You guys have such obvious 3 month cycles. Mine did the exact same thing. I lived it, I know it. It suck$.
Only you can make the decision. Do you keep putting up with this as he spirals, then you threaten, then he "comes" back, life is great, then he disappears. . . rinse, repeat, etc.
I am glad you come here to vent, but those who have followed your story think you deserve way more than this guy is capable of giving, at least in his present state. But ultimately, if you are willing to take what he gives, then that is your decision.
Not sure if you've read HaWho's development on the MLC board, but after years of basement dwelling at a subsistence level her H has suddenly handed her divorce papers and it is making a big push to get out ASAP.
Sometimes waiting around for things to get better works, but usually it doesn't.
I hope you find a good place for you and the kids with whatever you decide. You are one heck of a lady and a hard worker.
No worries about subsistence living, the house is mine and completely in my name only. It's in a good school district and a great neighborhood. WH and I make roughly the same amount of money and frankly if we divorce, he would be hurting more financially. I pay 90% of the household bills (he supports quite a bit of extended family financially) and it would barely ripple my financial status if we D.
If WH filed for divorce I think I would feel sad but ultimately relieved. I can say I've done a Herculean effort to save this marriage and the onus is on him. The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger is the fact my kids spend a lot of quality time with both parents under the same roof. I once approached my DD last year about the possibility of mommy and daddy living in two different houses. Her luminescent eyes filled with tears and she shakily said, "I need to go cry now." Those words keep reverberating in my head. I so wish I could turn back time and pick another man to make the father of my children. But I can't and now I feel I am stuck between a rock and a hard spot, divorce my WH and place a step father in their life or remain single and alone. My difficulty is that I spent my childhood and young adulthood fantasizing about giving my future children the gift of a strong, loving, two parent home. It will feel like the death of part of me when/if we divorce. My children are happy, healthy and completely stable right now. Do I take that from them or continue to live in limbo? I love them more than my desire to destructure their lives right now. So...divorce? If so, why do we DB in the first place? Is this method even effective? So far I've seen about 90% of the Newcomers eventually divorce eventually. I just feel so stuck right now. This horse of a husband refuses to drink no matter how much water I put out.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
It's so painful to be in that position. I still haven't been able to read every one of your posts but have you determined if your husband has been going through a MLC or is depressed? Maybe there's something that could help to explain why he's non-responsive so often.
Do you feel like you truly love your husband? Is it more important to keep him, because that's the man you love, or to find someone that reciprocates equally?
For me my husband was the man I truly loved. There's no one else on Earth I wanted to be with. Then he changed and now he's gone. If there were other men lined up that I felt would have been better I may have left two years ago, but I could never imagine being with anyone else. I guess that's my mistake and still is.
Maybe you need to try really hard to envision your life without your husband, both short-term and long-term. How do you feel about being totally alone? Can you imagine being happy with another man? Did you ever love any other men?
It seems there's not much more you can do to get through to your husband. There's still hope that when your kids are older and more independent that you and your husband will have more time alone together which could make a difference. There's still hope that one day he'll 'wake up' and realize all his mistakes. Your husband didn't divorce you so there's still that stability and warmth of having him there with you. It seems like there's still hope except that you're probably exhausted from waiting and trying and still not having him be consistently engaged.
Perhaps without doing anything wrong you can just look around you when you're out and see what you see. All those men holding their wives' hands walking into Target. The happy families at the playground where the husband and wife are snuggled together on the bench while the kids play. The husband waiting in line with flowers in his hands at the check-out area. I bet those men's wives don't have to try so hard and yet their husbands give them loyalty and affection. Some men are just better than others at being a partner. Then what about the single guys? Do they give you a glimpse when you walk by? Do you ever smile at one and he smiles back?
It seems like there must be a series of questions you can answer and analyses you can do to make more sense of your situation. The answer about what to do next must be there.
This is just hypothetical, but let's say your husband continues to be like this and you meet a guy at work or wherever who's super handsome and affectionate towards you and has everything you're looking for. If such a guy was standing there in front of you would you still want to stay married to your husband? Or would you start to imagine a different path? I'm not saying to ever cheat but just to think about different scenarios as a way to test yourself.
I'd still give anything for my husband to be in the room next to me, working on his computer, knowing he's safe and we're together. Your husband is still there, so there's still hope and still something to be thankful for in my opinion.
Sara, by subsistence living, I was being a little more metaphorical. I meant she lived with a checked out husband who gave her nothing in the relationship.
I get what you are saying about the kids, I heard the same thing from my son. A couple of weeks later his dad was gone. Now both kids tell me they are so glad he is gone. Of course a 6 year old has no reference for anything other than what she has known. This is why the children of murderers still yearn for them (which my kids' counselor told me on our first visit). But, if the calculus does change for you in the future, kids do adapt and there are positives that come out of the situation that can help make up for the obvious negatives.
You need to do what you need to do for you. If having him there is worth it to you for whatever reason, then you should keep him there. But, if you do, I think you need to change your expectations. You are constantly disappointed because he is not giving you what you want.
I think if you can reach a point where you expect him to be exactly who and what he is, you can move forward for you in a more detached, and likely happier fashion.
Also, just so you know, I'm about as pro marriage as a person can be. I don't necessarily think him leaving for a while has to equate to divorce. I think there are lots of steps between where you guys are now and divorce.
I do think you should also consider the MLC angle, although I'm not sure it offers much reassurance for yours, or any other, situation.
Sara, everything Ownit said, is pretty much exactly my sentiments.
I understand that you are a physically beautiful woman who takes care of herself, a wonderful mother and a successful career woman. But when are you going to get IT'S NOT YOU!!! You could be Kate Middleton, or any other "perfect" woman and it still won't be enough for him. Why? Because THIS IS HIS PROBLEM. It is not something lacking in you, it is something lacking in him.
Sara, every last one of us here pictures we would have the nuclear unbroken family and our kids would have a magical life and childhood within that unit. We have all suffered the same loss of the dream. Trust me, I did not go through IVF at 26 years old to have my husband leave me for another woman when our miracle baby was 6 months old. With that, my vision of what would be was shattered, and the hardest part is to let go of that fantasy.
The way I see it is you have 2 choices. You live in your situation as is with no expectations if you believe that is truly what is best for your kids. You live that way knowing you aren't getting anymore than what you are getting now and there is the chance of him just walking out that door one day. Or, you get out of this situation, mourn the loss of your perfectly nuclear family, and perhaps realize there is happiness for you and your kids without him in the house. Yeah, maybe one day you remarry and your kids have a stepfather. An engaging one who isn't depressed who loves your kids and loves you and gives you what you need. I am the example of I guess what would be "alone until the kids grow up" I have had maybe a total of a year relationship in the last 10 and I never remarried. Yeah, sure I am lonely. But given the choice of living with the exH as he is is a far worse fate than the position I am in now. That's for me, personally.
You have choices, and I know they aren't what you want them to be, but you have choices. Nor do you have to rush into making these choices. If you can deal with this cycle he keeps putting you through and you truly think it's the best option, then that's you choice, and no one way is a fault. But if you have any expectations beyond what he has been consistently showing you, then you will really set yourself up for misery and disappointment, which will surely turn to resentment.
And yeah, when we are all newly bomb-dropped, we stumble onto this site, and expect DBing is going to save our M. Then our marriage ends anyway and we feel a bit jipped. But in the long run, we take on some life and relationship skills that invaluable to your future. We look inward, which quite honestly, most people are way to scared to do. While it doesn't save our M, it doesn't mean we worked it wrong in or it doesn't work. In the cases I have seen it work, it's only if the WAS is healthy or gets healthy. We can't change someone, they have to want to, and that is not on us.
good evening, PsySara... back in September 2016 you posted an update where you sent your H a link to something called TalkingParents... something like that... to help parents who are considering divorce to communicate... H got SCARED... i was a lurker at that point... i had been lurking on the DB site for about 18 months at that point, and had read many, many threads... when i read that post, i thought: this girl gets it! she is DBing and she is on her way... not long after that, you shared with your H that you believed you got a message that you two were meant to be together... H pulled back big time... and that was the last time you seemed strong to me...
you go through cycles where you seem resolved to move on, and H softens, and then the cycle continues... but in all the cycling, i do not think you have been as strong as you were back in September 2016...
after your experience with Retrouvaille, you have questioned the DB method a couple of times... my observation is, rarely does anybody come to this site and DB through and through... most go through pieces of DBing... because it is difficult... it is scary... it is painful... most people cannot bring themselves to believe doing what seems unnatural could actually help... i said this earlier: you have not required much from your H before you take him back... each time you have allowed him back in, he came in not doing any of the work...
for DBing to have a fighting chance to work, to bring a marriage together, the LBS has to have the stomach to see it through... and even then, there is no guarantee... most people who come here are giving it what they can, God bless them, but that is not enough... most of those LBSs who are giving it all they can do not have the stomach to do it fully...
i say this to say, it may seem like DBing doesn't have a high success rate, but in all fairness to the DB process, most people do not follow it to the Nth degree... it's too uncomfortable...
