Separated after 9y and W says it is the end. Help!

[Subitai]

The 180 is about changing YOUR behaviors. And not for the marriage, for yourself. Detached from the marriage and the kids? Well, you can't address the marriage, but you can the kids. Emphasize no screen time with the kids (that means no phone for you when you're doing no screen time with the kids. It's hard at the park when you're watching them do the same monkey bars for the fifteenth time, but try!) when you're with them.

For the GAL, don't run out dating, but definitely do new experiences, fun stuff. Try to keep it not extravagantly expensive (unless you guys are made of money) but definitely fun. In your situation, you absolutely cannot go out with other women right now. But do something besides playing video games by yourself. You need adult, human interaction and support, so you need to see your friends often, and not just in a sobbing in their arms (although that can happen, it has for me) and going on about the divorce.

Detach. This is separating the emotions from the current experience. I'm in the same boat, with the love of my life leaving me, and it's hell. But releasing from the emotion of it to look at it objectively is important. Owning and validating your contributions to the breakup is important, especially since you initiated the BD. You are a WAS, not a LBHS, who has decided to try and recon after your wife has moved on, so you're threading a different kind of needle than some here. You need to show remorse and effect honest change in yourself, and hope for the best. Admitting you made a mistake and were an idiot to her was fine, but you can't pressure her too much. It was hard for me to grasp that the marriage is BROKEN right now. It is. I spent awhile trying to find the magic words to go back to what we had, but there's no going back. Same for you. Your marriage is done. If you reconnect, it will be a new relationship, even if you never officially divorce. Your old marriage is gone, and good riddance, because you were a terrible partner (and she made bad choices in it, too.) If you recon, you will build a new relationship and will have the chance to make it far better, open, and caring. So don't eff it up if you do.

You're in crisis mode right now, so follow the advice of the regulars and old timers.

Again, I have to say, do NOT start dating as part of your GAL as YOU are the WaS, and her doing the 180 (initiating divorce) is what knocked you on your butt and got you wanting to recon.

Her 180 probably has nothing to do with wanting to save the marriage, but is about her wanting to improve her situation where she was in a marriage with a man who repeatedly said he wanted to leave.

Do not get angry.

You will get upset. Excuse yourself from the convo as soon as possible. Do not DROP the convo, though, you can come back to it and say you're ready to continue the conversation more calmly. You can say "Let's take 5 minutes" or "let's try again tomorrow" or something depending on how upset you're getting. But stop before you get angry.

Do. Not. Get. Angry.

Validate her feelings. Understand them as best you can. Start therapy by yourself if you can. Let her know you're starting therapy to deal with your issues, but don't phrase it as "So we can get back together."

My recommendations for 180s :

Kids : Involved and invested dad. Support your wife to the kids. Do not ever ask them to spy/etc. Do not blame your wife or trash talk yourself to them.

Therapy : Do it. For yourself. For your future relationship with your kids, and your wife or ex wife, whatever happens. And again, for yourself.

GAL : Drop the screens, do fun things with your male friends/kids. Think about your emotional well being and your kids well being. Exercise, meditation, etc for calmness, doing things with your friends for fun and emotional fulfillment.

Communication : Polite Neighbor for sure. Keep your wife informed of stuff about the kids (updates when you have them) and be punctual and courteous. Avoid all R discussions unless she starts them, then do your best to let HER talk. It will be agonizing to do so. Listen to her. LISTEN. TO. HER. You don't have to agree with things you don't believe to be true, but affirm that you understand that's what she feels. This is a hard line to walk. Walk it. Practice walking it in a mirror.

[Mav82]

The 180 is about changing YOUR behaviors. And not for the marriage, for yourself. Detached from the marriage and the kids? Well, you can't address the marriage, but you can the kids. Emphasize no screen time with the kids (that means no phone for you when you're doing no screen time with the kids. It's hard at the park when you're watching them do the same monkey bars for the fifteenth time, but try!) when you're with them.

I try both no screen time with kids and changing my normal behavior.

For the GAL, don't run out dating, but definitely do new experiences, fun stuff. Try to keep it not extravagantly expensive (unless you guys are made of money) but definitely fun. In your situation, you absolutely cannot go out with other women right now. But do something besides playing video games by yourself. You need adult, human interaction and support, so you need to see your friends often, and not just in a sobbing in their arms (although that can happen, it has for me) and going on about the divorce.

I am not planning to date. In the first week I installed tinder, but suspended the account right after first requests, as I am not in the shape or mood to date. Most importantly my goal is to get her back, not to piss her off.

As for friends I have a difficult situation. I have only two male friends here in my town, not very close ones, that know about the situation with W. Rest of my old friends are spread around the globe. I have two that know the full scope with OM, and have shown incredible support, but both are far away. It was one of my issues, I thought I devoted myself to the family and was not very socially active. My W on the other hand has a huge network, as she is very active and is a beautiful woman, so there are lots of men wanting to be around. It was never an issue to me or our relationship though.

Detach. This is separating the emotions from the current experience. I'm in the same boat, with the love of my life leaving me, and it's hell. But releasing from the emotion of it to look at it objectively is important. Owning and validating your contributions to the breakup is important, especially since you initiated the BD.

We had one counseling session, after the BD and there and before I took the blame on me. Yesterday I took it too, though I still mentioned that it would be great if she had openly spoken to me, as it was clear I am not initiating divorce and rather flexing muscles. To that she has only ONE answer - it does not matter now, as it is over. For me our M is over and you need to accept it.

You are a WAS, not a LBHS, who has decided to try and recon after your wife has moved on, so you're threading a different kind of needle than some here. You need to show remorse and effect honest change in yourself, and hope for the best.

I never thought about it that way, but in her eyes, definitely I ended our relationship, not her. And she was too kind to tolerate it for so long.

Admitting you made a mistake and were an idiot to her was fine, but you can't pressure her too much. It was hard for me to grasp that the marriage is BROKEN right now. It is. I spent awhile trying to find the magic words to go back to what we had, but there's no going back. Same for you. Your marriage is done. If you reconnect, it will be a new relationship, even if you never officially divorce. Your old marriage is gone, and good riddance, because you were a terrible partner (and she made bad choices in it, too.) If you recon, you will build a new relationship and will have the chance to make it far better, open, and caring. So don't eff it up if you do.

Very hard to read this, especially the terrible partner part. I still think I was not that terrible, but was blind to her needs. I do understand though, that if we get together one day, it shall be a new start.

Again, I have to say, do NOT start dating as part of your GAL as YOU are the WaS, and her doing the 180 (initiating divorce) is what knocked you on your butt and got you wanting to recon.

Her 180 probably has nothing to do with wanting to save the marriage, but is about her wanting to improve her situation where she was in a marriage with a man who repeatedly said he wanted to leave.

This is an eye opener totally makes sense. Basically this is how she says - I am living for myself and my well being enjoying every day.

Do not get angry.

I generally don't.

You will get upset. Excuse yourself from the convo as soon as possible. Do not DROP the convo, though, you can come back to it and say you're ready to continue the conversation more calmly. You can say "Let's take 5 minutes" or "let's try again tomorrow" or something depending on how upset you're getting. But stop before you get angry.

Do. Not. Get. Angry.

Validate her feelings. Understand them as best you can. Start therapy by yourself if you can. Let her know you're starting therapy to deal with your issues, but don't phrase it as "So we can get back together."

Problem is she does not want any conversation. Yesterday we had one, initiated by me. I mentioned afterwards, that this conversation in Emergency Room was the best we had in the last two months. I think she agreed.

My recommendations for 180s :

Kids : Involved and invested dad. Support your wife to the kids. Do not ever ask them to spy/etc. Do not blame your wife or trash talk yourself to them.

Therapy : Do it. For yourself. For your future relationship with your kids, and your wife or ex wife, whatever happens. And again, for yourself.

GAL : Drop the screens, do fun things with your male friends/kids. Think about your emotional well being and your kids well being. Exercise, meditation, etc for calmness, doing things with your friends for fun and emotional fulfillment.

Communication : Polite Neighbor for sure. Keep your wife informed of stuff about the kids (updates when you have them) and be punctual and courteous.

I will start therapy asap. We did one counseling, where she said, i need time and space. In couple of months I might change the decision. Since then however, she got much harder, and yesterday, when I asked if we shall continue, she said we can, but for her it is more of a divorce counseling and definitely not a couple-counseling and it might be good for both of us
I do not know, shall we do the next session?

Avoid all R discussions unless she starts them, then do your best to let HER talk. It will be agonizing to do so. Listen to her. LISTEN. TO. HER. You don't have to agree with things you don't believe to be true, but affirm that you understand that's what she feels. This is a hard line to walk. Walk it. Practice walking it in a mirror.

After yesterdays discussion, I decided to closed any R discussions. Problem is she does not want to have any M related discussion with me. Only kids and sometimes small-talk about things/people we both know. And, as she borough up yesterday , the finance.


Question: I had a great day today, shall I text her a thank you?

[Subitai]

The 180 is about changing YOUR behaviors. And not for the marriage, for yourself. Detached from the marriage and the kids? Well, you can't address the marriage, but you can the kids. Emphasize no screen time with the kids (that means no phone for you when you're doing no screen time with the kids. It's hard at the park when you're watching them do the same monkey bars for the fifteenth time, but try!) when you're with them.

I try both no screen time with kids and changing my normal behavior.

Good. That's the right track.

For the GAL, don't run out dating, but definitely do new experiences, fun stuff. Try to keep it not extravagantly expensive (unless you guys are made of money) but definitely fun. In your situation, you absolutely cannot go out with other women right now. But do something besides playing video games by yourself. You need adult, human interaction and support, so you need to see your friends often, and not just in a sobbing in their arms (although that can happen, it has for me) and going on about the divorce.

I am not planning to date. In the first week I installed tinder, but suspended the account right after first requests, as I am not in the shape or mood to date. Most importantly my goal is to get her back, not to piss her off.

As for friends I have a difficult situation. I have only two male friends here in my town, not very close ones, that know about the situation with W. Rest of my old friends are spread around the globe. I have two that know the full scope with OM, and have shown incredible support, but both are far away. It was one of my issues, I thought I devoted myself to the family and was not very socially active. My W on the other hand has a huge network, as she is very active and is a beautiful woman, so there are lots of men wanting to be around. It was never an issue to me or our relationship though.

I have the same issue, my wife is very outgoing, lots of friends, I am more introverted, fewer friends. You're going to have to get out there and find some friends, then. Whatever the equivalent of Meetup or other social apps in Germany are might be very useful here. You can lean on long distance friends for the emotional support, but you still need to socialize.

I thought for a long while that being almost exclusively doing things with my family was a good thing. It's not. When things are going badly, you have no blow off valve to correct your emotional balance before re-engaging and fixing the current problem in the marriage.

Detach. This is separating the emotions from the current experience. I'm in the same boat, with the love of my life leaving me, and it's hell. But releasing from the emotion of it to look at it objectively is important. Owning and validating your contributions to the breakup is important, especially since you initiated the BD.

We had one counseling session, after the BD and there and before I took the blame on me. Yesterday I took it too, though I still mentioned that it would be great if she had openly spoken to me, as it was clear I am not initiating divorce and rather flexing muscles. To that she has only ONE answer - it does not matter now, as it is over. For me our M is over and you need to accept it.

You'll be hearing this for months before you get any traction back towards a relationship. She's been living with it for months from you, so imagine how she has felt hearing you constantly talk of divorce.

You are a WAS, not a LBHS, who has decided to try and recon after your wife has moved on, so you're threading a different kind of needle than some here. You need to show remorse and effect honest change in yourself, and hope for the best.

I never thought about it that way, but in her eyes, definitely I ended our relationship, not her. And she was too kind to tolerate it for so long.

I never talked about divorce, but I avoided doing a lot of things that needed to be done, emotionally withdrawing to protect myself and 'keep the peace', so we have some similar issues going on here, but we refer to talking about divorce as the BD, or Bomb Drop, because it is devastating to the person on the receiving end, and you have now discovered.

Admitting you made a mistake and were an idiot to her was fine, but you can't pressure her too much. It was hard for me to grasp that the marriage is BROKEN right now. It is. I spent awhile trying to find the magic words to go back to what we had, but there's no going back. Same for you. Your marriage is done. If you reconnect, it will be a new relationship, even if you never officially divorce. Your old marriage is gone, and good riddance, because you were a terrible partner (and she made bad choices in it, too.) If you recon, you will build a new relationship and will have the chance to make it far better, open, and caring. So don't eff it up if you do.

Very hard to read this, especially the terrible partner part. I still think I was not that terrible, but was blind to her needs. I do understand though, that if we get together one day, it shall be a new start.

Taking ownership of your issues is part of the process. Repeatedly saying you want a divorce and refusing to go to MC about it is a pretty terrible partner. Own it. You had many good qualities, too. So did I! But that doesn't make up for the bad stuff. 180 the bad stuff so she has a chance to remember the good stuff eventually. It will not be fast. And don't talk up the good stuff. Every time I did that with my WaW, she clammed up. It made her resentful and angry to be reminded of all the stuff we could have had if I had been a better partner. (That's how she is feeling about it.) She is pissed and hurt, and needs to heal. Minimize the ongoing damage, let her heal, and work on you so you'll be a better partner in the future, to her or to somebody else if you guys cannot reconcile.

Again, I have to say, do NOT start dating as part of your GAL as YOU are the WaS, and her doing the 180 (initiating divorce) is what knocked you on your butt and got you wanting to recon.

Her 180 probably has nothing to do with wanting to save the marriage, but is about her wanting to improve her situation where she was in a marriage with a man who repeatedly said he wanted to leave.

This is an eye opener totally makes sense. Basically this is how she says - I am living for myself and my well being enjoying every day.

Yep. She is DBing, even if she didn't read these books. She is GAL, DBing, and you have responded to it. Your hope is that she hasn't GAL'ed enough to never want you back.

You will get upset. Excuse yourself from the convo as soon as possible. Do not DROP the convo, though, you can come back to it and say you're ready to continue the conversation more calmly. You can say "Let's take 5 minutes" or "let's try again tomorrow" or something depending on how upset you're getting. But stop before you get angry.

Do. Not. Get. Angry.

Validate her feelings. Understand them as best you can. Start therapy by yourself if you can. Let her know you're starting therapy to deal with your issues, but don't phrase it as "So we can get back together."

Problem is she does not want any conversation. Yesterday we had one, initiated by me. I mentioned afterwards, that this conversation in Emergency Room was the best we had in the last two months. I think she agreed.

No R talks is not a problem right now, it is some healing space. You guys can continue to go to MC, because that becomes a 'safe space' to talk, and an easier way to get things moving, but it may not be productive. My W and I have had longer, more in depth, and good discussions about stuff than we've had in years. She still wants a D.

My recommendations for 180s :

Kids : Involved and invested dad. Support your wife to the kids. Do not ever ask them to spy/etc. Do not blame your wife or trash talk yourself to them.

Therapy : Do it. For yourself. For your future relationship with your kids, and your wife or ex wife, whatever happens. And again, for yourself.

GAL : Drop the screens, do fun things with your male friends/kids. Think about your emotional well being and your kids well being. Exercise, meditation, etc for calmness, doing things with your friends for fun and emotional fulfillment.

Communication : Polite Neighbor for sure. Keep your wife informed of stuff about the kids (updates when you have them) and be punctual and courteous.

I will start therapy asap. We did one counseling, where she said, i need time and space. In couple of months I might change the decision. Since then however, she got much harder, and yesterday, when I asked if we shall continue, she said we can, but for her it is more of a divorce counseling and definitely not a couple-counseling and it might be good for both of us
I do not know, shall we do the next session?

This is the exact situation I am in. The MC turning into Divorce Counselling is something others can comment on. Since it's not 'your' or 'her' therapist, they should be fairly neutral, and you can hash out visitation/etc with a non-partial person. I would rely on old-timers here who have more insight into how this goes. I know my current MC is totally DC now, and that's OK as we need to work things out about the kids/etc and this helps it proceed with less anger.

Avoid all R discussions unless she starts them, then do your best to let HER talk. It will be agonizing to do so. Listen to her. LISTEN. TO. HER. You don't have to agree with things you don't believe to be true, but affirm that you understand that's what she feels. This is a hard line to walk. Walk it. Practice walking it in a mirror.

After yesterdays discussion, I decided to closed any R discussions. Problem is she does not want to have any M related discussion with me. Only kids and sometimes small-talk about things/people we both know. And, as she borough up yesterday , the finance.


Question: I had a great day today, shall I text her a thank you?

Only kids, finances is fine. Sandi2 and some of the other posters will have much better ideas on if you should cut small talk/etc out of the conversation given that you're a WaS who saw the light and is now on the receiving end of a LBHS who appears ready to move on. I'm still a newbie here, but I saw a lot of my problems in yours. So I'm definitely rooting for you.

[Subitai]

Crud, one misquote up there... hopefully you can sort it out. The "I never talked about divorce, but I avoided doing a lot of things that needed to be done, emotionally withdrawing to protect myself and 'keep the peace', so we have some similar issues going on here, but we refer to talking about divorce as the BD, or Bomb Drop, because it is devastating to the person on the receiving end, and you have now discovered." was a response to the quote right above it.

[Mav82]

She texted me a question about next music lesson of our S and I decided to thank her for the great day I had with kids. She answered - „good :)“ I cannot be an [censored] with her.
I really need some advice from vets on how to deal with these kind of situations.

[Subitai]

The goal is not to be mean. Polite and friendly neighbor. So I think you're doing good. The old hands will chime in I am sure.

[sandi2]

Anyways, end of October after we had some argument, she moved to sleep with our daughter, and I still was blind, though became more cautious, and some evening in November I found a messenger thread on her phone with OM, with very emotional discussions and words like "my love" and her hate towards me .

Something that will be extremely important to your situation is this affair your W is having with another man. When you looked at her messages to him, could you determine when they started contacting each other? IMHO, it is important to know if the A was already in progress when you talked to your W about divorce. Was she having an affair only after a month of discussing the possibility of D?

If you have read any of my wayward wife threads, can you see your own W in my descriptions? This is only my opinion, that depending on whether or not she is wayward, could make a difference in some of your approach. In the books DB/DR, the author does not separate a wayward wife from a WAW, so please keep that in mind when reading them.

Is it common for your W to have exclusive friendships with men? Have you ever known of her getting too close to some other man, during this MR?

If she has shown no wayward wife tendencies (overly selfish, demanding her way, orders you around, shows disrespect for you, inappropriate behavior with men, etc.), and if she was not in an EA with this OM.....then it could determine how you should approach this situation.

Before you realized what your W was doing and talking about her hatred for you.......you gave her an emotional bomb drop about considering a divorce. Not feeling good about yourself is not a legitimate reason to D your W. Do you know the real reason? Have you been guilty of something that made you feel bad about yourself? You do not have to give us any details, but it would help to know what it is. Depression can become devastating. If both of you have suffered from depression at the same time, I can see how you could try to find what was causing it. Unfortunately, many people blame their M's for their source of depression.

It was so stupid of me, but it was my way to express demand for a change.

Were you demanding change in her, the M, or what?

Anyway, you became a walk-away H. When you discovered the messages, it immediately jerked you out of your WAH mentality. All it took was seeing another man was in the picture. So, your situation is not the usual one seen on the board. However, that's not to say your M cannot be saved.

I updated her pc and photographed her browser passwords. She noticed it and in the morning, when I was sleeping.
I had no idea, but had a bad feeling that day and said we need to talk, and she said fine in Cafe. She confronted me with her findings and said now it is all over.

So in other words, she did not tell you it was over until she realized you had her password and could read her messages? And now, she claims she cannot trust you? I want to make sure I have this right.

During the talk she had tiers in her eyes. She also carries a book "How to get over love pain".

We also agreed to meet and discuss finances.

Funnily enough I felt myself much better (emotionally) after that.

Nothing was resolved, but you felt better emotionally b/c you talked about it. Perhaps in the future you will share more with your W. Just talking about things with someone, can help with some levels of depression. I encourage you to continue counseling for yourself.

As for not having any goals, we believe in goals here. It sounds as if you may have lost your passion in life. Materially, you had everything you wanted. However, it does not feed the soul. You will need to find passion, and not expect someone else to give it to you. You are responsible for your own happiness. That was a lesson I had to learn.

On one hand it makes me feel much better, being around at home with kids on the other, it is kindda contrary to 180.
I really need an advice here.

Some people refer to the 37 rules as "the 180", but actually, 180's are the changes you make in your actions/behavior. Another misconception by newcomers is trying to do the total opposite of everything. Also, you may need to adjust your 180's as your situation with your W changes.

Therefore, take an evaluation of yourself and the improvements you need to make in your life. Then write down the steps you'll take to accomplish these improvements. You'll have made your first goals.

For 180's, write down the habits, reactions, or other actions that bring bad results to your relationships. How could you 180, instead of repeating what brings bad results?

The more common newcomers are those that have been jilted by their spouse. In fact, most discover their spouse is having some type of an affair, or they are wayward in other ways, and living like Girls Gone Wild. So, in case someone doesn't read your first post, and they pass along the advice you feel would make things worse in your R with the W......always ask before acting on it. In fact, don't do any action to jump off into something you don't understand fully, before checking with the board. You are taking in a lot of new information, but you'll catch on quickly.

Subital and Another Stander have given you very good advice. BTW, if you are introverted and it's hard to make new friends, then find hobbies or activities you enjoy alone. Do the things you've put off doing, b/c your time was devoted to family. Make sense? And the reason a man shouldn't confine himself to just his family, is b/c his world becomes very small. A man is not near as interesting as one that has a life that reaches beyond his own doorsteps.

Very hard to read this, especially the terrible partner part. I still think I was not that terrible, but was blind to her needs. I do understand though, that if we get together one day, it shall be a new start.

You may be defined as a good person. One that was devoted to his family. However, if you ignored her needs, she may not agree that you made a good partner. Were you guilty of any of those things I listed on ways a H loses attraction and respect from his W?

She texted me a question about next music lesson of our S and I decided to thank her for the great day I had with kids. She answered - „good :)“ I cannot be an [censored] with her.
I really need some advice from vets on how to deal with these kind of situations.

Until we hear more about the situation, I think you need to continue using the above as your guide. The main thing to remember is do not pursue her. Even as a WAH, you do not want to pursue her. She is angry at you and she wants her own private space. She needs some time to think things out, and to see changes in you.

[Vanilla]

Your W was dumped by you. I don't see her as wayward.

I see you as S and she got a bf.

Be very sure that you are not messing with her as that would be very cruel. Are you only interested because she has a bf?

V

[Mav82]

Something that will be extremely important to your situation is this affair your W is having with another man. When you looked at her messages to him, could you determine when they started contacting each other? IMHO, it is important to know if the A was already in progress when you talked to your W about divorce. Was she having an affair only after a month of discussing the possibility of D?

No, her EA started couple of weeks before I found it out and it was already after my stupid behavior.

If you have read any of my wayward wife threads, can you see your own W in my descriptions? This is only my opinion, that depending on whether or not she is wayward, could make a difference in some of your approach. In the books DB/DR, the author does not separate a wayward wife from a WAW, so please keep that in mind when reading them.

She was never selfish or shown any of those behaviors.

Is it common for your W to have exclusive friendships with men? Have you ever known of her getting too close to some other man, during this MR?

She had lots of men around her, but I have never seen her flirting with anyone. She definitely enjoyed the attention, but it is in her nature as a performer.

If she has shown no wayward wife tendencies (overly selfish, demanding her way, orders you around, shows disrespect for you, inappropriate behavior with men, etc.), and if she was not in an EA with this OM.....then it could determine how you should approach this situation.

No. never.

I am quite sure though that the EA wit the OM actually trigered her hard-line decision to end our relationship. She feels that she will not stay alone, if you know what I mean.

Before you realized what your W was doing and talking about her hatred for you.......you gave her an emotional bomb drop about considering a divorce. Not feeling good about yourself is not a legitimate reason to D your W. Do you know the real reason? Have you been guilty of something that made you feel bad about yourself? You do not have to give us any details, but it would help to know what it is. Depression can become devastating. If both of you have suffered from depression at the same time, I can see how you could try to find what was causing it. Unfortunately, many people blame their M's for their source of depression.

I did not blame the marriage for my depression. I actually was not overly depressed. It was just I lost the goal in my life.

It was so stupid of me, but it was my way to express demand for a change.

Were you demanding change in her, the M, or what?

Change in our relationship. We became very distant and each of us was living our own lives. She took too much on her, and I was all about making money and for a big part did not support her with our kids. Most importantly in the mornings (nature of my work is that I can show up in the office around 10, while kids school starts at 7.30-8.30).

I have changed that now, and even during the last 5 days of us being together. In aftermath she even said it was more annoying her, as she saw it as show off behavior.

Anyway, you became a walk-away H. When you discovered the messages, it immediately jerked you out of your WAH mentality. All it took was seeing another man was in the picture. So, your situation is not the usual one seen on the board. However, that's not to say your M cannot be saved.

I have actually realized that now, and it makes my heart bleed even harder.

[/quote]

I updated her pc and photographed her browser passwords. She noticed it and in the morning, when I was sleeping.
I had no idea, but had a bad feeling that day and said we need to talk, and she said fine in Cafe. She confronted me with her findings and said now it is all over.

So in other words, she did not tell you it was over until she realized you had her password and could read her messages? And now, she claims she cannot trust you? I want to make sure I have this right.
[/quote]

My spying on her PC happened 5 days after she game us another chance. The morning she found the pics of her passwords on my phone, she decided it is over for us as she cannot trust me anymore. Yesterday in the hospital, she said, I had trusted you a little, but you lost it with this action.

During the talk she had tiers in her eyes. She also carries a book "How to get over love pain".

We also agreed to meet and discuss finances.

Funnily enough I felt myself much better (emotionally) after that.

Nothing was resolved, but you felt better emotionally b/c you talked about it. Perhaps in the future you will share more with your W. Just talking about things with someone, can help with some levels of depression. I encourage you to continue counseling for yourself.

Shall I pursue talk with her? As I have said, I think she agreed it helped us both.

As for not having any goals, we believe in goals here. It sounds as if you may have lost your passion in life. Materially, you had everything you wanted. However, it does not feed the soul. You will need to find passion, and not expect someone else to give it to you. You are responsible for your own happiness. That was a lesson I had to learn.

Agreed. I am trying, but it is very hard atm.

On one hand it makes me feel much better, being around at home with kids on the other, it is kindda contrary to 180.
I really need an advice here.

Some people refer to the 37 rules as "the 180", but actually, 180's are the changes you make in your actions/behavior. Another misconception by newcomers is trying to do the total opposite of everything. Also, you may need to adjust your 180's as your situation with your W changes.

Well this is my main question. Which rules, people here think I shall apply and how shall I behave with her. I am not sure to be honest.

At the moment she is much nicer to me, as she kinda does not feel the need to push me back after our discussion in the ER. It feels good to me, and I am sure to her as well. At the same time I feel it makes much easier for her to completely abandon our relationship, as she has me as a friend around.
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Therefore, take an evaluation of yourself and the improvements you need to make in your life. Then write down the steps you'll take to accomplish these improvements. You'll have made your first goals.

For 180's, write down the habits, reactions, or other actions that bring bad results to your relationships. How could you 180, instead of repeating what brings bad results?

The more common newcomers are those that have been jilted by their spouse. In fact, most discover their spouse is having some type of an affair, or they are wayward in other ways, and living like Girls Gone Wild. So, in case someone doesn't read your first post, and they pass along the advice you feel would make things worse in your R with the W......always ask before acting on it. In fact, don't do any action to jump off into something you don't understand fully, before checking with the board. You are taking in a lot of new information, but you'll catch on quickly.

I will.



Subital and Another Stander have given you very good advice. BTW, if you are introverted and it's hard to make new friends, then find hobbies or activities you enjoy alone. Do the things you've put off doing, b/c your time was devoted to family. Make sense? And the reason a man shouldn't confine himself to just his family, is b/c his world becomes very small. A man is not near as interesting as one that has a life that reaches beyond his own doorsteps.

Very hard to read this, especially the terrible partner part. I still think I was not that terrible, but was blind to her needs. I do understand though, that if we get together one day, it shall be a new start.

You may be defined as a good person. One that was devoted to his family. However, if you ignored her needs, she may not agree that you made a good partner. Were you guilty of any of those things I listed on ways a H loses attraction and respect from his W?

Yes, some. there are 3 major issues:
1. While I did support her in her projects the best I could (both financially and investing my time, consulting her etc) I often became angry, when she was not very focused. Ans she felt it is better not to discuss issues with me lately.

2. I did not support her financially on day to day basis. She does earn much less than I do, and I tend to save money for bis purchases, and not to spread them for unnecessary stuff. We often had arguments, as I wanted her to be financially independent, so if something happens to me, she can cover the mortgage etc. I obviously overdone this and she was/is very hurt because of this. She likes to spend money, and we had it in the last couple of years, but she still had to count each penny of her personal finance.

3. As I have mentioned the kids. While I am very loving dad, and support the kids, lately I removed myself from their upbringing, especially in the morning.

The last one has been already addressed. She mentioned to one of my friends, that I became a better father after separation.

Until we hear more about the situation, I think you need to continue using the above as your guide. The main thing to remember is do not pursue her. Even as a WAH, you do not want to pursue her. She is angry at you and she wants her own private space. She needs some time to think things out, and to see changes in you.

Well you have it now.

She is very pissed with me still. She remembers smallish stuff from years back, and it makes her to reinforce her decision.
To be honest I am very afraid, that as the time passes she will get used to her new life, turn the EA to PA...
Sometimes I have very good moments, like yesterday evening, and sometimes I feel myself miserable.

P.S. Thank you so much for your help. Everyone.

[Mav82]

Your W was dumped by you. I don't see her as wayward.

I see you as S and she got a bf.

Be very sure that you are not messing with her as that would be very cruel. Are you only interested because she has a bf?

V

No, damn no. I love her. More than anything else. I truly do. My behavior was just a stupid way to say we need change in our R and in M. I was in a fog, that vanished the moment I realized I lost her.