I know this might sound overly simplified, and take this with a grain of salt from a woman who can't hold a relationship, but the overanalyzing is going to hold you back from enjoying anything.
Stop fearing you are going to do something "wrong". To the right person, they will stick through the learning curves, will not want or expect you to be perfect, and he will want to work with you because he wants to be with you.
Please be good to yourself. Enjoy yourself. Because anyone who doesn't love you for exactly who you are, imperfections and all, doesn't deserve you.
Ex and I are on friendlier terms. He sees son every other weekend and 1 night a week. He doesnt have overnights without supervision. Im no longer sure if that was reasonable of ne to insist on. I dont know him and never will.
I still think about him every day. Sometines i am so so mad at how he treated me pre and during BD. I cant believe his cruelty. And then other times i am ashamed of how i was throughout our relationship. I never had any real answers. And i think that made it harder for me to heal.
I am dating soneone that has great morals, walked the walk so to speak. But he is not perfect and i accept that. I feel bad that i was not as accepting of my ex's imperfections. And if i had been how differently would our lives have been. Could that have changed secret substance abuse? I dont know. Was i a catalyst to said substance abuse? Living with me drive him to it?
My ex once liked me just as much as the new guy. So in 15 years, will new guy resent me too? Something i am conscious of. Will i resent him?
The winter is not a good time for me. And i feel unbalanced and unmotivated and defeated.
A long time for me since posting on here, but I still read and it feels right to say hello and support you in your winter feelings of woe. As all things DBing, these feelings too shall pass JujuB.
I feel your same insecurities in my new relationship. There is so much about me which is new with my new person, I like knowing it, I like feeling it. But I know I am only a brief moment away at any one time, from not being better and not being different from the person I was with my ex.
Every now and then I glimpse the me who was with my ex. I see things start to unravel now, I watch them in slow motion sometimes and I know what is happening and yet still I proceed down Alice's Rabbit hole. I see myself become the banshee and the tantrum thrower, the child aching to be seen, to be heard.
I realise these are soulful needs or maybe rather more wounds and my broken bits lead to Banshee Jelly or Sad Jelly, and I have begun to accept that these will likely never leave and I have found a person who sees Banshee Jelly and Sad Jelly and loves me more in those moments. And I know he loves me more in those moments, because he stays, he never leaves me alone. We're an us in those moments.
I guess what I am saying is you forget JujuB that your ex didn't accept you either, your ex didn't accept Banshee JujuB, sexy loving JujuB, anxious mother of his child JujuB, committed wife JujuB, and he didn't stay and stand. He is as human as you were in the relationship. I am in with my current person.
Forgive yourself JujuB, it makes all the difference with the new person. These are just my thoughts.
Really I just wanted to say I love you and you are awesome. Lets meet up some time soon.
Thank you for your response Jelly. I love you and I love hearing from you. And I cant wait to meet up again.
It might be that it is too early for the old me to come out.
But really, I feel like the process left me cold and empty. Like i have become my ex. Like I am DBing the new guy. Like I am keeping myself detached if that makes any sense. I can no longer communicate any needs at all (much like my ex)and am unsure what they even are. I think I feel so rejected, that I feel that being with me is a form of punishment. And its hard to accept that a guy wants to spend time with me.
To be honest, I wonder if it is my detachment that attracts guys.
I am thinking it out too much. I know that. But I feel very damaged by my relationship with my ex. How it was even before he left. The misogyny of ex's thinking. That underlying belief of me as the nagging wife that kept him from his happiness. And how it was part of his plight in life to appease the wife. Ugh, do you know how many times he joked about the "power of the triangle". A lot of times I believe that I was that nagging wife. But not really. That is not my personality. I am pretty confident that I am not a codependent personality by any stretch.
But I wasnt really a partner or even a friend to him. And i have to remember that. And its hard for me to trust that there are guys that want that. I am still not sure what to make of new guy.
I have not talked about this but to a few trusted people. The first year of my relationship with my new lovely person was filled with doubt and trials for both of us. We both had much to heal in ourselves from our previous experiences with our exes. There was much self doubt mostly manifested in "am I good enough for this person", and what if I "f **k this up again". These self doubts saw me unwittingly test my person at times I pushed him away repeatedly; he tested me and us with his desire to be superman sharing little of his pain and never wanting to be vulnerable, to not be Mr Right, Mr Perfect.
This will sound cliché for sure, but it was through the hardest first year of being together that we actually supported each other with healing from our previous relationships. Ok ideally we would have done this before entering into a new relationship, but you know what, no matter how healed you think you are from your last relationship, there are still painful FOO's and residual relationship patterns and temperaments and personality traits to influence any relationship. You're going to make mistakes in your next relationship JujuB. Some big bad ones at times, let me tell you, and those mistakes will be some of the ones you made with your ex and some will make you question your commitment, resolve and love for this new person. They make you question yourself and your ability to be better and do better.
With all the above said JujuB this divorce process changes you, you can't not be changed by what you have experienced. As Lady V says once you know you can never unknow. The JujuB you were, whoever she was really doesn't exist anymore. Forgive her for what did and didn't do, what she couldn't fix. She served you JujuB, her job is done and it is time to let her go. Please find healing where you can, have some peace, drop the rope to the past. You really are done with it. There is nothing to find there anymore. Your new life is forward not back.
As for trusting that there is a good man out there for you to partner with and share love and life. Only time will tell. But what I do know and I think I have said this previously, and I hope a lot more eloquently in other threads of mine. JujuB, this divorce process is layer upon layer of grief and loss, until it's not. It knocks your self confidence and sense of self like nothing ever will. We lose a sense of certainty about ourselves and about the world. Prior to this process we somehow in a god like sense of ourselves thought we had far more influence over our circumstance and people than we actually have. We were left vulnerable and smashed, some of us in tiny little pieces. You have however survived to tell the tale.
I have been fortunate to meet someone who has helped me scoop up all those little pieces and quiet frankly as long as we are loving, committed and peaceful with each other, he cares not one bit if I stay broken forever. I have met a person who believes in unconditional love and commitment. You know the type of love that Zues talks about, the person who stays and accepts that not everyday is Valentine's Day.
The key to it all JujuB is vulnerability, all good relationships flourish where yourself and other are prepared to expose yourself. Your description of detachment about yourself continues to convey the sentiment of what we have discussed on prior occasions. Intimacy and vulnerability scare you. And what I am learning is you cannot truely connect with the other, the partner you seek without it.
What do we share in common, our love of emotionally unavailable men. They keep us safe from truely experiencing ourselves, they deny us opportunity to be vulnerable and intimate (like true intimacy). My experience of you JujuB is that you are very comfortable with vulnerability in certain places and about certain things. But intimacy within a romantic partner relationship appears to have been elusive to you.
There are a couple of books I believe would help, one by Brene Brown and the other Natalie Lu. I'll pm you the titles. These books opened my eyes to some personal patterns that were stopping me from truely loving myself and someone else.
Keep posting JujuB, i feel like you are at the beginning of something!
JuJuB and JellyB, I really enjoy reading the discussions between the 2 of you. There's some great reflection and advice in here.
In going through my own D, I realized I was emotionally unavailable (though my XW was too). I don't think that's who I initially was, but it's who I became in the M. My IC gave me a great book on it by Patti Henry. There's a section for women that also helps them examine why they're attracted to emotionally unavailable men. I wanted so hard to work on it, but this was after BD and my XW was having none of it. At least I've learned I can open up to others about my D, and work on my emotions more in that respect.
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
No human is ever perfect. No R is ever everything.
As Jelly says it's work and play.
Zues has the gift of directed anger, some of us work from other emotions, mine is fear. Jelly from sweetsadness. I think yours is from disgust of yourself, of XWH, of L......
It's ok, it's who we are. Our nature, our composition.
Addiction is a dark hole, secretive addiction is a dark hole to hell. Addicts put the addiction first in their lives. Once they cross that Rubicon there is no going back, they are addicted forever.
Addiction in its initial stages is a choice, they choose to use a substance, a behaviour or a ritual. It is their need to involve their soul and body in self indulgent destruction. Ironically the happier their prospects the more likely they are to indulge to destruction.
No other can make an adult an addict. In fact I would think your presence slowed the disease process not encouraged it. Once the addict is gripped fully by the addiction then that comes first. Hiding the addiction shows deep shame of it and self. It's wasteful and you have done the right thing by your child in limiting overnight contact.
I know what covert addiction can do to an R. Even an open addiction can damage. In that you will have to trust me, I walked 12 steps with the addiction. And the addict resented me more for wanting him clean of gambling, smoking, drinking and womanising, being clean requires a lot of strength and boredom. It means releasing love and being a non addict. Being loving in that phase pushed the addict away, made him go more underground.
Your xWH isnt a special snowflake sort of addict. Addicts are exclusively the same, addicted to destruction. You can't love that away, being a better partner would likely have sped up the destruction. And letting the addict continue with the addiction which is what they want is enabling.
Who knows if new guy is the one, who knows if it will last, there are no guarantees in it. It is great to work on your R skills, I say this often to myself but as yet don't have your courage or Jelly to get into a new R.
Four years on this March since BD1 and still not ready. In this I am like Zues I do believe that an M is for life and that it takes work. I just don't want to choose another abusive R and don't trust myself.
You are doing great Ju. And it's ok to be cautious and it seems to me your stance is right for this phase of R.
Love as always
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I have not talked about this but to a few trusted people. The first year of my relationship with my new lovely person was filled with doubt and trials for both of us. We both had much to heal in ourselves from our previous experiences with our exes. There was much self doubt mostly manifested in "am I good enough for this person", and what if I "f **k this up again". These self doubts saw me unwittingly test my person at times I pushed him away repeatedly; he tested me and us with his desire to be superman sharing little of his pain and never wanting to be vulnerable, to not be Mr Right, Mr Perfect.
I can totally understand the not wanting to be vulnerable again. That is me. I am ashamed of myself for the amount of begging and lack of pride that I had after BD and I never want to be that person again.
This will sound cliché for sure, but it was through the hardest first year of being together that we actually supported each other with healing from our previous relationships. Ok ideally we would have done this before entering into a new relationship, but you know what, no matter how healed you think you are from your last relationship, there are still painful FOO's and residual relationship patterns and temperaments and personality traits to influence any relationship. You're going to make mistakes in your next relationship JujuB. Some big bad ones at times, let me tell you, and those mistakes will be some of the ones you made with your ex and some will make you question your commitment, resolve and love for this new person. They make you question yourself and your ability to be better and do better.
Great points.Not being vulnerable certainly slows that process down perhaps. My ex was annoyed with and always ignored my needs. I was very clear cut in communicating them to him and it was taken as criticism and nagging. Now I dont voice my needs. I am very cool and easy to get along with. No demands. I dont even know what my needs are. I know thats not ideal for a new relationship
We are both starting relationships now with either baggage or experiences. I guess it depends upon how one sees it, Which makes it harder in some ways..we are more cynical, and less willing to be vulnerable. But also easier. We are more self aware and perhaps wont take things for granted as readily
With all the above said JujuB this divorce process changes ]you, you can't not be changed by what you have experienced. As Lady V says once you know you can never unknow. The JujuB you were, whoever she was really doesn't exist anymore. Forgive her for what did and didn't do, what she couldn't fix. She served you JujuB, her job is done and it is time to let her go. Please find healing where you can, have some peace, drop the rope to the past. You really are done with it. There is nothing to find there anymore. Your new life is forward not back.
Thank you Jelly. I know this is great advice. It is hard for me to let go. I am not indifferent towards ex. Ending a marriage with my ex was never something I wanted. I wanted my future to be with him. And I was really unhappy and frustrated with our relationship.
As for trusting that there is a good man out there for you to partner with and share love and life. Only time will tell. But what I do know and I think I have said this previously, and I hope a lot more eloquently in other threads of mine. JujuB, this divorce process is layer upon layer of grief and loss, until it's not. It knocks your self confidence and sense of self like nothing ever will. We lose a sense of certainty about ourselves and about the world. Prior to this process we somehow in a god like sense of ourselves thought we had far more influence over our circumstance and people than we actually have. We were left vulnerable and smashed, some of us in tiny little pieces. You have however survived to tell the tale.
Yes, Yes, Yes!!! This is perfectly expressed. Why do we care and they dont though?
I have been fortunate to meet someone who has helped me scoop up all those little pieces and quiet frankly as long as we are loving, committed and peaceful with each other, he cares not one bit if I stay broken forever. I have met a person who believes in unconditional love and commitment. You know the type of love that Zues talks about, the person who stays and accepts that not everyday is Valentine's Day.
I am so, so happy for you! Broken people are able to empathize better. They have better insight and understanding. They dont get swept up by the little things. So it makes sense that he would love your brokenness because without it, you would not have those qualities that attract others to you...sensitivity, humor, depth, the ability to get down to that core and identify yours and others truths.
Is vulnerability the same as honesty? I think I am afraid to be vulnerable and thus not my honest self
The key to it all JujuB is vulnerability, all good relationships flourish where yourself and other are prepared to expose yourself. Your description of detachment about yourself continues to convey the sentiment of what we have discussed on prior occasions. Intimacy and vulnerability scare you. And what I am learning is you cannot truely connect with the other, the partner you seek without it.
Very, very true.
What do we share in common, our love of emotionally unavailable men. They keep us safe from truely experiencing ourselves, they deny us opportunity to be vulnerable and intimate (like true intimacy). My experience of you JujuB is that you are very comfortable with vulnerability in certain places and about certain things. But intimacy within a romantic partner relationship appears to have been elusive to you.
What does it even mean to be emotionally available? I am very honest. Im just not sure how to be emotionally available. I googled it and a lot of the descriptions of emotionally unavailable people could have been attributed to ways I was with my ex. Before BD. Was it because my needs were not getting met first and I was reacting. Or was he responding to me? Which came first? Thats what I am not sure of.
There are a couple of books I believe would help, one by Brene Brown and the other Natalie Lu. I'll pm you the titles. These books opened my eyes to some personal patterns that were stopping me from truely loving myself and someone else.
Thanks. Yes would love them!
Keep posting JujuB, i feel like you are at the beginning of something!
JuJuB and JellyB, I really enjoy reading the discussions between the 2 of you. There's some great reflection and advice in here.
In going through my own D, I realized I was emotionally unavailable (though my XW was too). I don't think that's who I initially was, but it's who I became in the M. My IC gave me a great book on it by Patti Henry. There's a section for women that also helps them examine why they're attracted to emotionally unavailable men. I wanted so hard to work on it, but this was after BD and my XW was having none of it. At least I've learned I can open up to others about my D, and work on my emotions more in that respect.
Thanks. Am gonna look one up. What does emotionally unavailable mean to you? Like how were you emotionally unavailable? Is it the same as detached?
No human is ever perfect. No R is ever everything.
As Jelly says it's work and play.
Zues has the gift of directed anger, some of us work from other emotions, mine is fear. Jelly from sweetsadness. I think yours is from disgust of yourself, of XWH, of L......
Lol. I think you might be right. Its my motivator. Im driven from negativity. It fits! But maybe not a good thing.
It's ok, it's who we are. Our nature, our composition.
Addiction is a dark hole, secretive addiction is a dark hole to hell. Addicts put the addiction first in their lives. Once they cross that Rubicon there is no going back, they are addicted forever.
Addiction in its initial stages is a choice, they choose to use a substance, a behaviour or a ritual. It is their need to involve their soul and body in self indulgent destruction.
Ironically the happier their prospects the more likely they are to indulge to destruction.
Why is this? Its so sad. Truly. My ex had so many great things about him. He was 6'4, super smart, had a great education. But i no longer feel that I ever knew who he really was. I was living a lie for a really long time. I dont even know how long! I dont know my own reality! What was the real him? Who was he? I often feel horrible for him. I do love him still. But then I get so mad at how he treated me.
No other can make an adult an addict. In fact I would think your presence slowed the disease process not encouraged it. Once the addict is gripped fully by the addiction then that comes first. Hiding the addiction shows deep shame of it and self. It's wasteful and you have done the right thing by your child in limiting overnight contact.
Thank you V. I never thought that perhaps him being with me slowed down the disease process. That is really a different way of looking at things. That were it not for me, he could have fell down that hole earlier. Many of his friends were alcoholics and druggies. One of them had OD'd right around BD time. I never knew that friend though and did not know he was still in touch with him. When he was with me, he was not with them. But then later resented me because he felt like I kept him or was trying to keep him from his friends.
I know what covert addiction can do to an R. Even an open addiction can damage. In that you will have to trust me, I walked 12 steps with the addiction. And the addict resented me more for wanting him clean of gambling, smoking, drinking and womanising, being clean requires a lot of strength and boredom. It means releasing love and being a non addict. Being loving in that phase pushed the addict away, made him go more underground.
Your xWH isnt a special snowflake sort of addict. Addicts are exclusively the same, addicted to destruction. You can't love that away, being a better partner would likely have sped up the destruction. And letting the addict continue with the addiction which is what they want is enabling.
I never would have enabled had I known. I think he knew that too. I really trusted him. I didnt know the signs of addiction to even know what to look for. I need to learn more about covert addictions and what they do to relationships. It was why I started IC. I just dont know what was gaslighting, and whether my own reactions and feelings were unfair out of line , or just screaming banshee
Who knows if new guy is the one, who knows if it will last, there are no guarantees in it. It is great to work on your R skills, I say this often to myself but as yet don't have your courage or Jelly to get into a new R.
Four years on this March since BD1 and still not ready. In this I am like Zues I do believe that an M is for life and that it takes work. I just don't want to choose another abusive R and don't trust myself.
I dont know if it is courage. I am not exactly being a vulnerable partner. I just always wanted a family unit. And I am afraid to wait too long. I too believe that a marriage is forever. I am sad that my future will not be with my ex husband. That I am not raising my son with my ex. But this was not my choice. I would have stuck by my ex through this disease because he was my family. He never gave me that choice. He villified me and projected and left. He never waivered. There was never temperature checking, or mixed feelings for me. He was cold and done for the most part.
You are doing great Ju. And it's ok to be cautious and it seems to me your stance is right for this phase of R.
