Husband gone for second time - new here

[NicoleR]

Cherry, I like your advice. I also admire the fact that you're able to do those things at night! About every other night I fall asleep together with my daughter from exhaustion and the other nights I mostly feel listless by the time I get my daughter to sleep, but I need to work on changing her schedule, getting her to bed early, and using the night time more wisely. I'll seriously work on that this week.

KML, I don't have much optimism for my husband as a father. I think he's capable if he has the interest. He just doesn't have it. I'd do anything to fix my marriage if I had a partner that was willing to fix it. I've tried to make the conditions right for that to happen but it hasn't happened after years of trying. I will definitely ask for what I need in a divorce settlement. I have a budget already made up for the move and all associated expenses regarding my 'new' life. I'll keep refining it.

Jim, that is true. Over Thanksgiving I think my husband had a brief moment where he realized how badly he's screwed up and felt sorry. Then I think he woke up the next day and said to himself "oh well."

All, I did talk to my husband last night about my plans to move and the need for his financial support. He made a few statements that I'll list in quotations with my responses afterwards and my thoughts in parenthesis:

My husband: "You should have a job lined up first, then you can think about moving." ----> Me: That's true. Ideally a job would come first, but I don't have anyone to watch our daughter while I travel for interviews plus it's unlikely in my field that they'd hire someone based in a far away state who promises to move in the future. I need to be there, ready-to-work, with my daughter already adapted to a new school. Then when the right offer comes I can start right away.

My husband: "Ok I'll start looking for a job there too." ---> Me: I'd prefer to have some space to start over (not really sure what else to say...if he can't work on the marriage then why does he want to follow us?).

My husband: "If I don't find a new job I'll start working one week on, one week off so I can come to see <daughter's name.>" ---> Me: Ok (I'm thinking seriously? You can barely see her now and suddenly you'll change your entire work schedule?).

My husband: "Once the house is done I'll work on everything (meaning his life, our marriage, etc..)" ---> Me: (No response from me. I'll believe that when it actually happens)

My husband: "I'm not thinking of divorce right now." ---> Me: I'm considering it and I'm trying to understand the process here in this state and if we live in two different states (I really am. There's nothing to lose as many of you have noted and the DB book says to follow through if it comes to that.)

I believe the above statements from my husband do reveal something. I believe right now he's so focused on his life that he's not thinking about my daughter and I at all. He takes it for granted that we're here and he probably doesn't expect me to move on. It seems the normal DB techniques didn't really cause any alarm for my husband, but us moving does affect him on some level. Perhaps when he sees us actually move he'll finally think about the consequences of his actions. Maybe there's that last glimmer of hope where he'd 'wake up.' I do believe by that time I'll be strong enough to stand up for what's right.

The previous situation where I agreed to be just roommates until my husband was ready to work on the marriage didn't work at all. But sadly I don't see it being easy to forgive and love a man who turned his back on me when I was sick, who ignores his child, who's had many affairs and was only sorry he was caught, and who generally fell into a life of sin and greed. There'd need to be a true awakening on his part, a desire to face God and cleanse himself from his sick lifestyle, and a commitment to a long-term treatment plan and a pattern of long-term change before we could try again. I wish it would be much easier than that, but these are serious issues.

The final thought is just my own regret at what I've done wrong and what I could have done differently. In my case, being too nice and weak gave my husband the green light to do whatever he wants. I need to work on changing myself. Thanks again everyone for your input.

[Caz49]

Hi Nicole,

Sorry I've not been around, I've been battling a cold, loads of commission orders and lots of snow with a manic rescue dog that still needs and wants long walks and attention.

Well done on the conversation with your H. I feel you stood your ground well. H can say as much as he wants but its actions that tell all. He didn't say an awful lot, maybe he's digesting it, who knows. And maybe you're correct and he doesn't believe you'll follow through. Who cares what he thinks...unless H is putting obstacles in your way regarding moving your D away from him. Do you need his permission in writing? I'm unsure about your laws regarding moving children away from their parents.

So carry on with your plans, wipe him out from your mind and look for that new life in the new city. If H has an epiphany you can decide if he's worth your new found confidence...and if he doesn't, then you've got your new life and a wonderful daughter.

H is making it easy for you to leave right now, so go with it, if thats the direction you wish to take.

Go after what you want. I think you're doing great!

[Caz49]

Just a little add on...I feel I didn't stand up for myself enough. I did ask for what I wanted but maybe I wasn't clear enough. My IC says I was clear enough, and people like us go through feelings of guilt, because we are nice people.

I sometimes wish I could be more like my H, and not feel so strongly or care so much...and then I realise that hey, I like being a caring person, I like being nice. Maybe I should just be a little more demanding in the future though. I need to be stronger when I need something or want something.

This is how being with someone like my H makes me feel...unbalanced, off kilter and not capable of relying on my intuition. But I've recognised it and am working on it.

[Cherry]

It’s not easy, and i should really sleep once I’ve got them settled. The 3 year old generally falls asleep waaay before baby. But i think it’s my stubbornness and want to do a little something for me.

I think that conversation went well. His desire to come with you may mean something or it may mean nothing. He does sound a bit in limbo, you may well have grabbed his attention a bit to think, “hang on, she’s not going to sit around waiting for me. This attractive woman and my daughter are planning a life without me”. He might not know if he wants to be with you, but you can bet he doesn’t want anyone else to”. Just be wary of any crumb throwing he may do in order to try and get your attention. Mine favours some latest drama to try and hook me in. Like a mug I’ve fallen for it a few times.

I also find myself like caz; a bit too nice for my own good. I sometimes wish i could be a bit more selfish like wh!

[PsySara]

The key to DBing is moving forward, spiritually, emotionally and psychologically, sometimes physically too. This can do two things, move you to a place where you don't actually want the WS or it can make the WS realize you are moving on without them and be the wake up call necessary for them to get to the root of their own dysfunction and reconcile.

You are moving forward, your WS appears to be cake eating and using you for plan B. I suspect when you move it will shock him into action. The tricky part (mistake I made) was to instantly let them back in without boundaries. It always easier to start from scratch and build things right rather than try to rebuild on the same foundation. So blow this popcicle stand and start looking through the classifieds, put your resume out there on the interwebs and greasing the wheel! A lot of companies will do interviews through webcam and don't require in person.

[kml]

There'd need to be a true awakening on his part, a desire to face God and cleanse himself from his sick lifestyle, and a commitment to a long-term treatment plan and a pattern of long-term change before we could try again. I wish it would be much easier than that, but these are serious issues.

Agreed. There's a WHOLE lot of growth and change he'd have to do to make this right. Don't settle for less.

In my case, being too nice and weak gave my husband the green light to do whatever he wants. I need to work on changing myself.

You know, I don't think of myself as a doormat - I'm a strong-minded woman, a little too opinionated for some really. But on the other hand - I'm easy-going and accommodating. I thought that's what you do in a marriage, be flexible. But in retrospect, my ex took advantage of that. I should have demanded more of him, demanded he treat me better, demanded my fair share of everything - time alone, money, attention.

I think about the girls I knew in college, the ones who had men falling over themselves to give them jewelry and take them on fancy dates. They weren't prettier than me and they definitely weren't as smart or entertaining as me. But they had one thing I didn't - THEY DIDN'T CARE. If a guy didn't step up to their expectations they would just get another one. The guys knew this and it drove them crazy trying to woo them. I despised it at the time but now I understand better - being independent and not NEEDING someone puts you in the position of power.

[Jim1234]

Nicole, interesting that H wants to move with you. Let's see if he follows through, you know.... because......

he woke up the next day and said to himself "oh well." .

[Cherry]

KML advise above is excellent. It’s a realisation that we should all hit at one point. There’s plenty of women who we have all come across who will use men for such things. My own morals i have never/would never do that. However the lesson we can all draw from this is that people want what they cannot get, it’s like the thrill of the chase. If we detatch, become less available and mysterious. The natural curiousity will creep in

[NicoleR]

Thanks Sara, Jim, KML, and Cherry! Sorry to respond late. It's been an exceptionally busy week with some professional activities I took on and with some visitors from out-of-town.

I'll probably move in April or May. It will be very difficult to do it sooner than that. Fortunately I can probably call up old contacts and find a job through word-of-mouth but I feel strongly about moving first and making sure my daughter is ok before I start a new job. I'm still open to doing short-term contracts after the holidays and will possibly take on one or two for financial reasons....my husband isn't paying off my credit card as he agreed and I don't want to wait for him. I've always paid off the full balance every month and still have a perfect credit score which is about the only thing in my entire life that's perfect at the moment. I can't let that slip.

I'm trying my best to see myself as alone and to imagine the future as just me, without a partner. This is my worst nightmare but I'm trying to get used to it. KML, what you say about the girls in college is definitely true and that men do like women who they have to pursue. I used to be that way and guess what? I had many great men after me! How many do I have now? Zero. Of course it's because I'm married and older and not in the market and everything now is different.

The greatest struggle for me right now is being positive. I feel negative thoughts are invading my mind faster than I can manage them. I see myself and my situation as complicated because more than anything I'd love to be married in the future and share life with someone else. All around me I see happy couples everywhere. I took my daughter to the local botanical garden last week for the Christmas lights and I was the absolute only single woman there. It seemed like literally every couple was holding hands and in a dream-like state. I cried the entire time as I pushed my daughter in her stroller and kept wiping away tears as I tried to point out special things to her.

I still wake up in the mornings feeling like I'm living a nightmare even though this has been going on for years. I believe I have to take these huge, giant leaps to start a new life that are so monumental that I can't imagine how I'll pull it off.

But one thing that really bothers me about my mindset is how I just don't believe I'll find anyone else. I can't even imagine loving another man. There's only been about five in my whole life that even appealed to me. I guess I'm very specific. I also am super conservative and never dated. I had one long-term relationship that started out as friends and then met my husband who I didn't date because he's Muslim. In the US it's very normal to jump into a sex-before-marriage relationship but I don't want that and don't think I'll ever be open to it. On the other hand, I can't imagine meeting anyone new and marrying them quickly because I don't want to make another mistake. So who will really want a 40+ year old woman who doesn't show physical affection and who has a young kid? And if there is anyone like that, would I even like them? I just can't imagine there being anyone...I can't feel that hope or optimism. I feel totally lost trying to ever date because I don't want that...I don't know how to do it and obviously I don't fit into American society. I fit much, much better into the conservative Middle Eastern society. There everything makes sense to me. There I feel I could meet someone, but guess what? Being divorced with a child in that part of the world is a very bad thing. Very few men would want someone like that and any man in his 40's who's single in that part of the world is a risk because the vast majority marry young and stay married for life.

That is a long complicated explanation but that's an example of how I feel self-defeating and I know this is wrong but can't really figure out how to open my mind and change. What if I really wish to find a new husband but just can't follow the normal process? In these moments I'd do anything to have just a practical arrangement with my current husband where we can live together even without love just have some sense of stability.

I am seeing a counselor but I guess I haven't focused much yet on future issues, mainly the current issue of my health and coping with my husband being gone. I guess I need to schedule more sessions to find out why I can't be more positive.

I am on the other hand very busy with social and professional activities and with my daughter - my husband see's that I'm always busy and knows I'm planning to move but he doesn't care. DB isn't working for us. The only odd comment from my husband was the one where he said "I'll work on everything when I do x, y, z." That's what he's been saying for years but he never works on anything. I forget what the x, y, z was last week. I think just his house and his current work schedule. He also said "I'm not thinking about divorce right now." So like PsySara says I guess he's happy having the best of both worlds - a family nearby as Plan B and all the freedom in the world to date whoever he's dating now and enjoy his life as a single man. I guess only when I move and file for divorce will he stop to think about his life without my daughter and I.

Anyway, I hope we all get through this and still have lives left to live. It'd be so great for anything good to happen at the start of 2018. I wish you all a peaceful and reflective end-of-2017.

[Jim1234]

The hopelessness and despair you're feeling right now is very normal. If you lost a close relative, you'd give yourself the luxury of mourning them, wouldn't you? The way I figure it, I needed time to mourn the death of my marriage. It will take a while. But things will get better.

You despair of finding a husband, or even a man you're interested in.... stop that right now. Do you know what men find attractive? Ok, besides the obvious, it's confidence, just like what women find attractive in men. It may take a while to get it back, but you will.

You want a conservative man? Preferably Middle Eastern? I'm sure there are plenty of them around, or at least men with the same values, but you may have to look. Maybe you'll have to look hard. Look where they are... churches, mosques....clubs online for conservative Muslim men..... And until then? If you like, date. Date lots of different men. If they pressure you do something you're not comfortable with, they're dicks. Uber home and move on to the next one. Of course, vet them carefully, meet them in public, and carry mace.....

And honestly, if you would prefer stability over love, maybe that's the solution for you. I wouldn't, but that's me.

You are going through the worst of it right now, and I'm sorry. The time of year doesn't make it easier. But things will get better.