Songs and Stories From The Far Shore - Verse 2

[Gordie]

Andrew,

One suggestion: do not use your son as a messenger with stbx. If you want her stuff removed and if it’s bugging you, then decide to do something about it: bring it to her, throw it out, or give her a deadline by which she has to do it.

[AndrewP]

Thanks for the visit Gordie. I wasn't using my son as a messenger. I'd asked them both to take care of the transfer of goods. It hasn't happened and so I reminded him.

I continue non-contact with my STBX and won't be contacting her myself without a clear and present emergency or through my lawyer.

[exquisitetobe]

23 yrs old... so many scenarios on this simple request of yours.. he may very well be annoyed because he does not want to be involved. Could be: " not my problem ", just plain " dont want to be responsable for this", " don' t want to answer questions" , " don' t want to be in the middle of this" etc...

Maybe, he is secretely hoping his mother will snap out of it and reunite with the family??

I do not know.. i don' t know how the family dynamic was like prior to her leaving you guys.. he might also be angered and ashamed of her affair.. who knows... buttom line, he was annoyed when you mentioned it therefor, i would not mention it to him again. I think you should find an alternative. Maybe the mutual friend? Drop her stuff there or have one of her friend pick it up if your stbx does not retrieve it by a certain date.

I am just brain storming ideas and suggestions.. you do what feels right for you! No matter what, it will get done!

[dream]

I know you asked your son if he would help out with getting his mom's stuff out of the house, but I don't think it's his place to have that burden. Even if he agreed to it, it's not his responsibility and it puts him in the middle of his parents. If you want her stuff gone, go through your lawyer to have a deadline in place and then donate it if she doesn't get it by that date. Personally, I think it should have been part of the agreement. You've been storing her stuff for a VERY long time now.

Am I the only one that thinks it's weird that you're making a spousal support payment without the documents signed by both parties?

Hope you're staying busy and not thinking about her too much.

[AndrewP]

exquisite / dream - so nice of you both to stop by.

Firstly about the spousal support payments, I was instructed by my lawyer to make the payment as agreed and since I also gave my word I went ahead. I have no interest in playing games and can't envision a scenario where she will try to tear up the deal that she offered. I have been wrong an awful lot though. The transfer was done early this morning but I haven't gotten the alert that it's been picked up yet but she's maybe been busy or hasn't seen the email. I believe that the fact that the agreement hasn't been signed off is more due to my lawyer taking 2 weeks vacation than anything else.

If it all blows up, it all blows up and I continue on.

The stuff is stuff. I want it gone but am willing to not rock the boat too much while the deal is getting done. I do think that she will eventually come and get it. She just needs to have the right motivations and whether that's S23 nudging or a firmly written letter by my lawyer I'm not fussing about it. I think that perhaps it sounds like a bigger deal to me in what I've written than it really is.

WRT S23 and his mother, he came home from a very long day at his construction job and said that he wasn't going to have dinner with me (pork chops tonight) because he was meeting his mother. He seemed quite chipper about it. I made no comments other than essentially a neutral "oh" and to check to see if he wanted me to do him up a plate for later (he said no). He texted her when he got home and now, well over an hour later he's heading out. I just saw him go and his mother had parked across the street and down half a block, making him walk over in some heavy rain rather than coming in the drive. Because I'm "me" though, the counter and sink got an extra good wipe when I did up the supper dishes. I didn't honestly expect her to come into the house while I'm here though.

I think he has a good relationship with her over-all which is a very good thing. I have a lot less jealousy about it than I did in the past. And no - I didn't mention anything about her stuff, or try to pass any messages along. There's no need for me to nag.

exquisite - you mentioned about the family dynamic. We were always I felt a rather close family. STBX and I were affectionate and demonstrably so for the entire time we were married up until she found her guy. Even then she only gradually became distant until the day I found out about him when she turned into an alien. A quiet one who was often depressed and sad looking and perhaps confused but an alien nonetheless. Since the kids were long gone from the house this didn't impact them at all directly. The kids I think had a good role model of a marriage in us. As parents we were a unified team and showed how two people could compliment each other and support each other in their various separate interests and how we would sacrifice our own wants at times for the greater good of the family. Writing that makes me wonder WTF happened - I have some theories that don't matter and I think I have pretty much come to terms with the fact that I will never understand.

However I think that both of the kids are firmly neutral about whether they want us to get back together or not. They both know that I was hurt very badly and that I am healing. I've talked to D25 who I am closer with more than S23 who has always been closer to his mother so she perhaps knows more than he does of how very unlikely it is that we'll ever get back together. This is something I've been seeing in a lot of what I've been reading lately here and elsewhere. Kids, especially if they haven't been around for any monstering or weird behaviours tend to stay neutral I think.

And no dream - I don't give her much thought in general. Just like for them I think though, this time of year I think makes us LBS nostalgic and the fact that things are going to be wrapped up soon makes me thoughtful and a bit sad.

Well - time to wrap up. Thanks again for stopping by.

[OwnIt]

Andrew:

I think you did the right thing in making the payment.

I'm impressed by how little your kids have been involved in the dynamic with you and your wife and that you suppress your curiosity and don't even ask if they have talked to her, that says a lot.

Thrilled for you that you will be taking a beach vacation at some point. I'm planning to take the kids to Ireland next summer but have to plan it around a 3 week learn to sail camp, the summer rowing season, and D's summer program of unknown origin at this point.

Seeing how far you've come gives me so much hope for myself. Despite a few tears here and there I feel so much stronger in this past year and I think a year from now I will be Fort Knox. Thank you for being such a great support for everyone here.

[dream]

I definitely agree that you should follow whatever your lawyer advised. I just don't want you to be taken advantage of or anything along those lines. Too often the nice guys get the short stick.

Even though it doesn't really matter why things turned the way they did, it is helpful to think about the possibilities. I have some theories as to why my first marriage failed. I think keeping those in the back of my mind helps me to work on my current marriage to avoid a repeat of history.

-dream

[Gordie]

AndrewP,

You sound like you are in a good place. Curious to know if your why is the same or different from what she told you?

[AndrewP]

Curious to know if your why is the same or different from what she told you?

This is going to be a bit longer than your question but I think the question deserves an answer.

Well - first off, she never really told me why she felt a need to stray. When I pressed her before I found out that she had been seeing OM for the better part of a year already her reasons were:
- sometimes when I complimented her I didn't sound sincere
- sometimes when I had too much to drink she felt like I would talk down to her
- she didn't want us to end up like her parents bickering in a nursing home (we hardly ever argued)

In talking to her friends later to a person they all made a point of saying that she never had anything negative to say about me.

Now - with that said, I wasn't and am still not perfect. I was fat - still rather chunky. I drank too much beer - still like it but less. I can be a bit of a pompous @ss. I have had odd(ish) hobbies like building small boats which I can get wrapped up in.

As far as my own opinions of the "why" - what it boils down to in large part is her own selfishness. She was and probably still is a very selfish and self-centred person. She liked nice things and felt constrained that even with our 6 figure income that she couldn't have the nice things she wanted. As a bit of back-story we had a lot of personal unsecured debt caused by bad decisions by both of us and had only in recent years gotten to a point where we had disposable income but it was also a point where we needed to focus on preparing for retirement. I remember waffling about buying a new high-end briefcase and her pushing me saying "well just buy it".

Theoretically the label of "cluster-B" or narcissist could be applied to her. She hated being alone and constantly looked for affirmation for even the most trivial of tasks.

Add on to that the horrible chemical mix that I've been told is menopause, an empty nest from kids moving out, me being away at work for 14 hours / day, her parents having a near death experience and the trauma of providing personal care for them and then moving them into a nursing home. Mix that with her changing from selling apples and baked goods to managing a liquor store and her forming a whole new group of enabling friends then you have some combustibles.

The spark was OM. A recent widower who she had known for years that she started going out for innocent drinks etc with. He was well off, semi-retired from running a dairy distribution business (yes - the milk-man) and had come in to a large insurance settlement when his wife passed (my STBX would brag about that to her friends who were horrified). She is charming and rather cute. He was lonely and hurt. Kaboom.

According to rumours I heard both before and more so after bomb-day she had cheated before. She certainly had shown poor judgement and I believe that there had been at least close calls in the past. Genetically her father and siblings were all classic narcisist types and had all had multiple affairs (and stayed married). How much genetics played into this I don't know. She used to be disgusted by infidelity.

So - She was predisposed to cheat. She had a man who she liked who was very likely actively pursuing her. She had family and friends enabling her, some quite aggressively (especially her sister who hated me and told her glorious stories of her own adventures in infidelity). She had an opportunity to live the material life that she realistically would never have with me. She took it. In hind-sight I feel that it was perhaps inevitable. If not with this guy, then with some other one presuming in our rural area she could have found and charmed another well off man.

For those reading this - please don't pick it apart and tell me to examine myself more closely and find more faults. I've been down that road. I have no interest in changing myself into a man who my STBX would be attracted to. Perhaps I am that sort of man and always have been. Perhaps not but I am pretty comfortable in my own skin and to me that's what matters. I feel that she left by her own choice and for her own reasons running "to" something and not "away".

Gordie - I don't know if this helped or not - but as a fellow voyager on these seas - since you asked - I have answered honestly. I don't know if any of this story resonates with you or not but I think from what I've read that at least some parts of it may.

[Coly23]

Hey AP, just dropping in to see how you are doing. You seem to be sailing on course with a little breeze in your sail. I love the idea of building little boats! I love the idea of building anything really! (((AP)))