Learning, Growing, Healing

[bttrfly]

Cali, I'm very curious if you know what happened to "Hank"??

[CaliGuy]

I know for a fact that my MLCer is going to have a sh$tty life. Not sure what I feel about that. A little pity, a little schadenfreude, something.

Cali...great post on the greener grass. I also agree with Own on the fact that even though she was sad about ruining her marriage, she was the victim in it all. Yes she was sold a bill of goods by the OM,

CaliGuy - thank you for sharing that post. I find it really helpful. I feel guilty for saying this, but there are time when I do want my H to be miserable. To punish him? Maybe. To make him feel regret/remorse? Perhaps. Retribution? Yea, a little.

All three of you have touched on something I have been kicking around a bit, I have seen it discussed elsewhere and have even talked it over with some 'surviving' LBH's of MLC.
I think in a strong way its validation we seek. We have lived this nightmare for years .. not just days/weeks... years. Hearing and seeing the MLCr put on that front they are happy and better off without us leaves a mark regardless if they truly are happy or not it makes us question ourselves and our marriage down to the core level as MLC has a wonderful way of flipping ones life/marriage/family on its ear leaving all those effected grasping for answers.
For me I have let go but I too find myself a little more happy when I hear she had a bad day or seems sad ... and a touch more somber when she appears all giddy ... even now it does have an effect on me but like all things in this its less and less powerful as time goes on.

wow Cali that Christy and Hank story is sad. I hope Hank came out of it a better person and moved on to happiness.

Its a shame Christy only broke free after Jerrys death.
All so sad and messed up.

as per your sitch,, divorce is welcoming. Mine went through last year and it was a relief to be no longer tied to my XW.
You are at a great place.

of course the initial shock of seeing those final papers hits you, only because we never imagined it ever happening this way. We thought life was great, happy mirage, kids, house, family. This MLC, no one should be married to them in this state. They need to be alone.

Keep your path, i followed you from the beginning of my arrival here. So glad I did.

take care

Irish ...Thank you. I ponder if I would be further along had divorce happened quicker .. but as in all things they happen when they are supposed to happen and as I touched on I honestly believe we both need this to move forward.

What a sad story about Christy and her choices, and one I hear over, and over, and over again. Part of me wonders if their regret isn't so much about the people they left, the lives they shattered, but that it didn't play out the way they hoped. I still see so much selfishness in the stories, but being on the other side, I may not be able to see it any other way.

Cali, you sound solid and I am so happy to hear that. Being in the place of acceptance can be so helpful in dealing with the crazy, such as the settlement proposed to you. Good for you for standing up for yourself.

M

M ... I still see you as my DB-sis ... so glad to see you around and so many here could learn a TON from you.

Cali, I'm very curious if you know what happened to "Hank"??

bttrfly

Honestly I have no idea. Not alot of people are still around from back when all that happened, the tidbits I got were all those pieces of information that simply confirmed more that it was MLC, Christy lost a sister, the M was on the rocks for a few years leading to this, he was a solid guy and floored when it all went down ..... things we all can relate to. At this point I hear he is doing well but could not tell you if there is anyone in his life or not.

I found the story just as you all did ... one we hear about often and not sure if that's to give people hope or as some of us have had to learn, the hardest lesson, how long this stuff takes. I know for me I had to learn some very tough lessons along the way and could not have learned them any other way than going through this crisis, I am stronger and better for it and continue to try to learn from it all to be better.

[Treasur]

I do feel a bit mean about it, because I also love my pre-MLC H, but yup, I don't want him to skip off to a happy life full of sunshine and peace. I resent that he's been cuddled up with a cooing OW all the nights I've been sobbing and sleeping alone. I don't want him to have a happy life when he blew mine up into a million pieces and polluted it with lies, death threats, drama, lawyer's fees and infidelity.

I think that's just being human really. It comforts me that no matter how big a mess I'm dealing with now, the facts suggest that he is starting his new life medicated, impotent, overweight and almost bankrupt with nothing more than his job and OWs house to live in for free. Mean right?

[Brubeck]

I keep meaning to add in this conversation here, then someone else posts something that just makes me nod along, saying - "Yep yep".

We have lived this nightmare for years .. not just days/weeks... years. Hearing and seeing the MLCr put on that front they are happy and better off without us leaves a mark regardless if they truly are happy or not it makes us question ourselves and our marriage down to the core level as MLC has a wonderful way of flipping ones life/marriage/family on its ear leaving all those effected grasping for answers.

I think that's just being human really. It comforts me that no matter how big a mess I'm dealing with now, the facts suggest that he is starting his new life medicated, impotent, overweight and almost bankrupt with nothing more than his job and OWs house to live in for free. Mean right?

Yikes, it's creepy when someone else reads my mind this well.

I have the same angry, hateful thoughts towards my W that many others have expressed here. Awful wishes. Thoughts that aren't good for one's spirit. I don't want to hurt her myself, I just want her backwards thinking to trip her up - massively. I see fleeting moments of her depression and a good share of wacky behavior to let me know she's not all there, but there are still days when I want her to trainwreck nonetheless. I don't want this to work out for her.

These MLC stories provide the strangest combination of assurance and sadness. You learn what your spouse is doing is mostly "script", and it helps to not take it so personally, but the stories also suggest how this story is probably going to end.

Then you read the LBS stories, and again, we're all reacting in similar ways. It seems unbearable at times, and I think I'm just not made to deal with this huge MESS she's made. I remind myself I'm still probably better off compared to them...as they are trying to create happiness out of lies.

[OwnIt]

Brubeck you are definitely better off. Don't question that one for a moment.

[Treasur]

I get you Brubeck. The most important thing you said though is that "I don't want to hurt her myself." Tbh, I would struggle to see how I could hurt my H more than he has hurt himself. He has made a huge mess in his own life. Will he ever repair that? No idea. I'd guess a lot of people would find it easier to persuade themselves that either they had no choice or keep telling themselves that new life/spouse/persona is so brilliant that it was worth it.

I think we want to see more of a train wreck (albeit one where we are safely stood to one side with a cup of coffee!) for two reasons. The first is about wanting to be proven right, I guess, to be validated that it wasn't a good thing, that it wasn't our fault, that destruction is not the route to a good life. Probably a bit self-serving....I don't know if my H will look back in years to come and see this as a great positive turn in his life. I suppose I just believe that good things don't come from such a dark place but I could be wrong. Maybe OW is a rare jewel and he will be ecstatically happy and a great H with a great new life who sees our 18 years as a terrible diversion from the person he was meant to be. No idea.

The second reason is perhaps a bit more healthy and loving. We see someone we care about in chaos and self-destruction and we believe that they have to hit rock bottom to ever heal and be healthy again. Whether with us or not. We love them enough that we want better for them than they are currently creating for themselves. We have no idea how much worse it will need to get, but we want them to be whole and healthy again. So far, the things that they have lost and destroyed have obviously not been enough to get to that place and that's hard to understand.

The bit of me that loves the H I knew knows that he would not have woken up one morning and said 'New life goals, I know...destroy my M, distress everyone who cares about me, take ADs and hang around with psychiatrists, go back on all my old values and beliefs, put on 3 stone, make myself bankrupt and homeless. Sounds great, where's my notebook to make an action plan!" I'd like my beloved to reach a place of peace and joy and health again, and looking as objectively as I can from the outside, this isn't it. But it is out of my hands and I may never know what happens to him.

[SBJ]

Well put Treasur...on both accounts. We don't wish our MLC'er to actually get hurt because we love them, but just like an infected sore, sometimes it has to hurt very bad before it heals and feels better. The MLC'er will never be able to comprehend the amount of pain and suffering they have put the LBS thru. Even if they lose the other person it can never be compared to the hurt the LBS felt because their relationship has been built upon lies and deceit. It was never real.

As far as our MLC'er getting the justice "we" feel that they deserve...some people call it karma, some call it the scales of justice, some people call it the wrath of God. Whatever you decide to call it, know that in the right time, justice will be handed out. For that I am certain.

[Treasur]

Well put Treasur...on both accounts. We don't wish our MLC'er to actually get hurt because we love them, but just like an infected sore, sometimes it has to hurt very bad before it heals and feels better. The MLC'er will never be able to comprehend the amount of pain and suffering they have put the LBS thru. Even if they lose the other person it can never be compared to the hurt the LBS felt because their relationship has been built upon lies and deceit. It was never real.

Funnily enough, I've been thinking of my STBXH as a cancer in my life and D like chemotherapy today!
I guess I don't think pain is a competitive sport. I don't know my H is now, but in the first few several months pre-OW, he was a hollow, numb, suicidal shell. I know he was suffering then. Since then I know no more about his hurt than he knows of mine.
I don't feel our M or life together was built on lies or deceit actually. I've looked at it rationally, but my gut says no. I know my H, as he was before his breakdown, loved me deeply. I have no reason before this crisis to think otherwise or to think he was unfaithful in the past. I don't know what happened to break him or why our M was a price he wanted to pay, but I know he loved me and believed in our M. Until he didn't. Eventually, I think you have to cut through the crap and trust your own instinct and that's mine. Like Occam's Razor, the most obvious explanation based on the facts as I see them is a) he had some unaddressed FOO/emotional chickens b) we loved each other and our life kept the chickens in a drawer c) they got noisier and a rough life chain of loss and illness pushed him to his own limit d) it is hard to feel love and connection when severe depression grabs you and e) he made some really crappy choices in how to deal with his depression which destroyed our M and made a huge mess for both of us. Both of us will have to live with the fallout from that. He chose his path and I'm choosing mine.

As far as our MLC'er getting the justice "we" feel that they deserve...some people call it karma, some call it the scales of justice, some people call it the wrath of God. Whatever you decide to call it, know that in the right time, justice will be handed out. For that I am certain.

I'd like my STBXH to find a healthy route forward for himself. He has hurt me, but the self-destruction of erasing 20 years of your life, good and bad, and the mess he's in now isn't good. I fear that he may never stop running because the more damage he's created, the harder it will be to look at it. Yet I hope he will hit a place that hurts enough to trigger his return to life as a healthy man who doesn't need to hurt and control and hide. So, maybe less God's wrath than God's grace is what I hope for him but I will never know I guess.

[CaliGuy]

Well its been awhile, finally some things to update for me.


I received a text last Friday from the MLCr "Check your email please"... this has been her usual contact method, like she wants to record all non-S10 logistic issues on email. I read the email and its asking me to look into putting S10 on my medical as "Unfortunately my position at CompanyX has been terminated effective immediately" (Side note since her crisis started 2011-2012ish this is job #6 she has gone through after being at the same company 13 years)

Thoughts on this for me range all over the place. This was another 'dream job' for her but I also know it was more than she could handle. Was a very well paying job to which I had/have reservations on how that affects the D process (more on that later) I can not help but wonder how that karma bus seems to make frequent stops in her direction, but its all seems to be reality checks with the never ending quest for happiness. As I was told (by her lawyer of all people) she was at Level 7 but really only equipped for Level 6 type work so this was just something she was not able to perform at and was to much for her. Now the timing on this is suspect but out of my control and like everything else probably to late in the grand scheme of things from the advice I have received this week as it pertains to the Divorce process.

So as I mention I received that nugget Friday, yesterday (Wednesday) was another court date. This one basically telling the judge we can not agree on terms so its simply to set a mandatory mediation date. I arrive early as in my character, no one is there at the time of the hearing, Judge asks me and I had no idea where MLCr or Lawyer is .... he pushes another case infront of mine during which her lawyer arrives, its a quick 5 minutes and we are done. As typical the lawyer likes to negotiate after these hearing and feel me out, this round was no different with the exception she seems to be getting frustrated with me and my reluctance to jump at any offer she presents.

She started twisting numbers and showing me how MLCrs current situation impacts things (seen that coming), then she tossed in a few other issues which I was not willing to accept (controlling type issues from MLCr where I can live, motorcycle, movies S10 and I watch together, alcohol ... which is funny as I only drink the nights I DJ, and never at home ... maybe one social event a year (her father was an alcoholic so I am guessing projection here) After I refuse to budge she then throws out this nugget. "Good thing California is a no fault state, MLCr has tols me how you parade women around in front of her and all the sexting you carry on" I actually laughed at that one and asked her to please send me those documents as I would be very interested in all that activity... I sure hope those women are hot. SMH, not sure if the L was lying to get something out of me or if that came from MLCr ... was still one of those head shakers we get with all these gifts they keep sending. So we will see what happens after the holidays are all done and I get back to court in Jan.

Getting out of court fairly early I decided to go pick up S10 vs going back to work for a few hours, its been wicked hot here... 3 digit hot and on the coast its just unheard of for this time of year, so we opt'd to go to the movies and sit in a cool theater and sip on a cold drink letting the heat pass over till later in the evening. During which S10 tells me MLC asked about how I was and asked S10 if I ever ask about her which struck him as strange (had to say it gave me pause but then I quickly shrugged it off as its just one of those things I think they go through). He is not aware she lost her job and I have taken the position its not my story to tell.

So outside of that, I have been pretty focused on work which these days seems to consume a good deal of my time, I hold on to a few GAL activities and for the most part its continuing to get things in order with the hopes of buying a new place in the next few years.

Hope you all are well.

[25yearsmlc]

Well its been awhile, finally some things to update for me.


I received a text last Friday from the MLCr "Check your email please"... this has been her usual contact method, like she wants to record all non-S10 logistic issues on email. I read the email and its asking me to look into putting S10 on my medical as "Unfortunately my position at CompanyX has been terminated effective immediately" (Side note since her crisis started 2011-2012ish this is job #6 she has gone through after being at the same company 13 years)
Thoughts on this for me range all over the place. This was another 'dream job' for her but I also know it was more than she could handle.


well, if it was more than she could handle, that's kind of "it". KWIM? No point in staring at that deal but DO get your son coverage asap. COBRA is insanely expensive.

Was a very well paying job to which I had/have reservations on how that affects the D process (more on that later) I can not help but wonder how that karma bus seems to make frequent stops in her direction, but its all seems to be reality checks with the never ending quest for happiness.

unfortunately it's her puzzle to solve. You can't hover over her shoulder to tell her which piece goes where.


As I was told (by her lawyer of all people) she was at Level 7 but really only equipped for Level 6 type work so this was just something she was not able to perform at and was to much for her.

the L told you this b/c it affects her income - and that affects YOU, as you have guessed.

But the reality sounds like this is just true. So, no point in freaking out about it, at least she'll be employed again soon (from the sounds of it. While having a lot of jobs in a short time CAN sound bad, it also sounds like employability to me!) Maybe that's the L in me, though.


Now the timing on this is suspect but out of my control and like everything else probably to late in the grand scheme of things from the advice I have received this week as it pertains to the Divorce process.

well, her position was eliminated right? Or Do you think the employer did this deliberately? Or are you saying she lost the job on purpose? Because she has lost other jobs recently so I'm not sure - well - very hard to prove anyhow.

Don't get sucked down the rabbit hole.

So as I mention I received that nugget Friday, yesterday (Wednesday) was another court date. This one basically telling the judge we can not agree on terms so its simply to set a mandatory mediation date. I arrive early as in my character, no one is there at the time of the hearing, Judge asks me and I had no idea where MLCr or Lawyer is .... he pushes another case infront of mine during which her lawyer arrives, its a quick 5 minutes and we are done.

As typical the lawyer likes to negotiate after these hearing and feel me out, this round was no different with the exception she seems to be getting frustrated with me and my reluctance to jump at any offer she presents.

Have you countered with an offer of your own?

She started twisting numbers and showing me how MLCrs current situation impacts things (seen that coming), then she tossed in a few other issues which I was not willing to accept (controlling type issues from MLCr where I can live, motorcycle, movies S10 and I watch together, alcohol ... which is funny as I only drink the nights I DJ, and never at home ... maybe one social event a year (her father was an alcoholic so I am guessing projection here) After I refuse to budge she then throws out this nugget. "Good thing California is a no fault state, MLCr has tols me how you parade women around in front of her and all the sexting you carry on"

Okay I'm laughing too. "Yeah GOOD THING!! What about how close Harvey Weinstein and I are??"


FWIW, my h has distorted our marital history beyond recognition. I mean that literally. When I saw the 25 page pleading (in a no fault state!) I swear to you that I had to flip to the back page to check for his signature.

I did not think it was OUR marriage in the pleadings. Jobs I "refused" that never, ever happened. I did not turn down a job the entire time we were married, with the one exception being a job I "refused" b/c H wanted to move to the west coast!

There were nasty jibes and the irony is that it was ALL legally irrelevant so it was all gratuitous.

I did not reply to any of it. It's a public record and for the life of me, I'm not 100% certain why his L would include it. Good grief.

So, join the club. IF a general "Denies all" is sufficient just do that and save your money - assuming it's irrelevant for financial purposes.

I mean, I could have sat on my butt eating bon bons & watching movies all day for years, and at this point it would not matter in court b/c I'm 57 and have a huge gap in my work history which my MD h does not have.

His resume is pristine. (you're welcome, h). I filed where we lived, and it's a no fault state. This angered h b/c I assume the division of assets is better for me?

Good thing for H though, since he cheated and where HE lives, it's called adultery.

Oh well



I actually laughed at that one and asked her to please send me those documents as I would be very interested in all that activity... I sure hope those women are hot. SMH, not sure if the L was lying to get something out of me or if that came from MLCr

My guess is that some form of this came from your wife. I'm a lawyer so this divorce is the first time I've ever been the client.

I'm very, very sorry to say, I'm underwhelmed with my profession. For some reason h's lawyer passes ugly irrelevant comments on to mine, and she passes them on to me. I told her not to bother unless it's legally relevant. (One was that h "would rather be a pauper than pay me a cent". After 35 years of marriage, really?? And what's the point on that, to show me he'll fight??? Okay I guess we have no choice. Trial time!)

H is still my kids' dad and I don't need to know all the latest "Sh1t" he says, to be honest. It hurts my feelings and it does NOT make me want to settle much. So why counter in a public document? These things are not that easy to seal from what I understand.

So either your w intimated this, made it up wholly, or her L was willing to probe on false grounds. Very Hard for me to believe that her L would make it up, but frankly, I'm not as sure as I would have been a year ago.

IF the lawyer blurted that out on their own, it's very odd. Also -bear in mind that your w may blame her lawyer for anything that does not work out well for HER. Don't just assume that is true. Lawyers CAN make things worse but usually, (I hope) it's based on what a client tells them.

Even So, it's unprofessional of the L to say that if you were unrepresented at the time. And if your L was there, let them speak for you. For future reference, try not to respond to the wife's lawyer . It cannot help you. I repeat that for emphasis, your unofficial words to her lawyer cannot help you. If needed, a simple "that's not true" is sufficient. No rhetorical sarcasm - though I share the tendency with you.

Wife's lawyer can take your words and NOT help you with them. You cannot be helped by responding to your w's lawyer without your L present.
Sorry. And Sheesh.


Getting out of court fairly early I decided to go pick up S10 vs going back to work for a few hours, its been wicked hot here... 3 digit hot and on the coast its just unheard of for this time of year, so we opt'd to go to the movies and sit in a cool theater and sip on a cold drink letting the heat pass over till later in the evening.

During which S10 tells me MLC asked about how I was and asked S10 if I ever ask about her which struck him as strange

how do you know it struck him as strange? just curious and you can act as if it's not strange, since you are his parents. And let's face it, it's not really strange. It was unexpected but We would all like to know what our spouse's are thinking.


(had to say it gave me pause but then I quickly shrugged it off as its just one of those things I think they go through). He is not aware she lost her job and I have taken the position its not my story to tell.

Correct; it's hers to tell. Oh and you are right not to read into her question.

(And yes - God knows it's much easier said than done!).

maybe Remind yourself that IF IF IF she ever has a seismic change inside

and wants to reconcile AND tells you, then let's cross that bridge then. I spent enough time inside my h's head and getting nowhere, to pass that advice on to you.

Projecting a calm life and inner peace, and being the rock for your son, is the best you can do and it's the healthy way to live.