WW in A. NC w/ OM(?) Next steps? (6th thread)

[hoosjim]

The more I think about my last post, the more burned I get that I even have to CONSIDER how to handle it. What is the real tipping point for me right now is thinking what I would do or how I would feel and how she would feel/react/etc. if the situation were reversed. (and, honestly, how most people anywhere would react, IMO.) If I had cheated on her, and my best friend had been a regular presence at social engagements with me and OW, and same best friend had lied to cover up my A, and same best friend had allowed me to use his address as a mailing and return point for packages I wanted to send to OW, and same friend had befriended the OW as well as OW's circle of friends and regularly communicated and hung out with them, and same best friend had served as a go-between and liaison for communications between me and OW when my wife started to suspect, and same best friend had also just been revealed to be in an A and cheating on his OWN wife... THERE'S NO WAY IN H**L my W would agree to let me go anywhere NEAR my best friend, LET ALONE go somewhere "overnight" with him. And, quite honestly, if I was in the situation of truly trying to "fix" my marriage after having had such affair, I don't think it would even cross my mind to ask my wife if I could go out with that friend or to otherwise propose something of that sort.

Am I wrong to think this? And to think that her even asking to do so would be a big big BIG red flag at this juncture?

[Ginger1]

I think you are borrowing distress from something that hasn't even happened.

[hoosjim]

I think you are borrowing distress from something that hasn't even happened.

Youre right, you're right. Gotta stop spinning. Old habits die hard. Wait and see.

[joejoe1]

I think you are right to feel that way. If she asked you to spend with her knowing how you feel about her( hopefully you made it known how you feel about her). Then I would think my wife wasnt as committed as she needed to be. If this is bothering that bad you need to talk it out.

Because if she goes with this friend this time, when is the stopping point of her calling this friend a friend.

[sandi2]

So, how would you advise handling it if/when she wants to go "see the bff?" I ask because this is a very real possibility, soon, I think.

I don't think you can, or should, try to control her from seeing the BFF. I'm just saying it could be an excuse to see OM. If she cheats, you will eventually know it b/c you'll fit the pieces together.

If she asks if she can go stay with the BFF, tell her she is an adult who makes her own decisions. In other words, you don't give her permission, nor do you preach her a sermon. I suggest you tell her to do what she believes she is strong enough to handle at this point. You put the responsibility of the decision on her. Don't bring up the subject of trust, etc. This will be a test for her. She may pass with flying colors, especially since her and BFF haven't seen each other in a month.

Quote:
The "just do it" concept from MWD helps overcome the awkward & weird feelings,

Been looking for where MWD talks about this and can't find it. I have both the DB and DR books, but I tend to be kind of a "deliberate" reader, and scanning is not my forte. Could you tell me what chapter(s) her take on this is found in? Is it in the new book, maybe, which I haven't read yet?

I think it was in her Sexually Starved Marriage book. It's been a while since I've read it.

[hoosjim]

Okay, so I now have what is a little bit of a 911 situation here. Something that I think has to be addressed, but I'm not really sure how. I had not been monitoring my wife for checking up on her for the past few weeks. Both people on this board, as well as my coach, and my counselor, and indicated that periodic checks, however, would be appropriate, until I was more comfortable that she was on the straight and narrow. So, as I indicated might be the case in an earlier post, she did ask if she could go see her BFF for dinner at BFFs house about an hour south of here, and then possibly staying over. My response to her was much as Sandy had recommended which was to say that it was a question of what she felt she was ready for and whether or not she felt she could trust herself in that situation. She said that she could, and she went down there. I put the tracker on her car to keep tabs, and she didn't stray from what her path was supposed to be. Nor did she go out after she got to Bff house. A couple of things she has said in the couple of days since made me a bit uncomfortable though, so I put a recorder in her car, because I know that's when she does most of her talking Two BFF, and also when she used to do her talking to the OM. What I find basically is that BFF is now not even pretending to be neutral but is actively trying to encourage my wife to come see the OM. The phone call I captured actually arguably even includes a no-contact violation wind BFF walks into the OM Hangout and says "I'm here, I have Mrs hoosjim on the phone, and OM shouts "hi", wish you were here" and w says to Bff in phone " tell them I said hi". The BFF initiated this phone call basically as BFF was walking into the hangout bar of the OM. First, she talks briefly about her day, and then tells my wife do you want to come over to this place to talk about our days, they have a really good band playing. My wife responds "I really really want to, but you know I'm not supposed to". To which BFF responds "yeah, doing what your supposed to, I remember living my life that way." (sarcasm). This preceded the exchange of "hellos" between W and OM and his crew. Then bff says to W, "are you crying" and W says "yeah". Then bff says, "well, I am meeting (unintelligable-- I think the name of a female friend) at [restaurant "a"] later, do you want to join us?" To which W ansqers "no". Bff says "text u later."

I HATE Lthis woman (bff) with a purple passion. Obviously very delicate time for W, and I got this working against me. Should I confront her, and if so, how? Maybe not say I heard convo with bff, but just that I think she needs to not see her? Reminder that she and bff aRe VERY old and VERY close friends. I don't see how w and I reconcile or rekindle with bff interfering. I know wife will probably slip. And dammit if this doesnt equal a breaking of "no contact" to the extent it sets back my W's recovery.

Do I just cut the cord? Confront her on some level? Let it pass abd hope fir best?
Put out contract on bff? Kick OM'S ass? I'm really at a loss here. We have had such a good couple of days, and a really fun, close, laughing good time last night.





I mean, my point is is that I think she would have a chance If BFF would just leave her alone. But I don't think she will make that move on her own, and if I try to force it, or if I tell her I've been checking up on her again and know about that conversation, then that will probably be the end for us.

[sandi2]

I think your W did very well, considering the pressure put on her. I am hoping that the separation from BFF will help W to see things clearly.

I'm not in favor of confronting her. She turned down the temptation. Don't let her know you are recording her.

[hoosjim]

Sandi thanks. This is just so frustrating... and enraging. My W TRUSTS this bff... Maybe more than anyone else she knows (she and I had that convo not long ago about which of our respective friends we thought we could truly trust) and this wayward b***h, pardon the vulgarity, who betrayed my own friend and wrecked her own marriage, is now using that trust to try to lead my wife down a wayward path and wreck MY marriage and MY family. And just when it was starting to look like their might be some light! She is daily in touch with this woman lately (pretty much since bff's divorce from my buddy started getting nasty and bff stopped getting everything she wanted.) And bff is very influential... outgoing, life of the party type, successful businesswoman, etc. I just.... AAARGH!!! I am actually getting MADDER about it the more time passes.

We have been having some "light" MR talks that NC suggested we have, not too often but like once a week, until she has had a chance to see us individually, and I almost feel like I should work in a "given the role bff played on the past, do you feel like she is,someone who will support your effortS to rebuild our marriage, someone you can trust to help you out here rather than pull you in the wrong direction?"

I also feel like I will need to check up on her a little more frequently, which I hate, becsuse it damages trust.

Oh, and am I right to assume that this little bff-contrived incident (hearing OM'S voice saying "hi", etc, leading to tears, may have set back her "recovery"?

Grrrrrrr.....

[sandi2]

Listen Jim, you must get control of your anger or she will feel it's directed toward her. Yes, you have cause to mistrust and be angry at the BFF.....but you surely knew the day would come that your W would have to choose which way she'd go.

I thought by the way you talked about BFF moving off it was a long ways, but an hour's drive is nothing. I'm very surprised they have been apart this long.

Have you used all your phone sessions with your DB coach? Maybe they could help you, until the MC can tackle this issue of the BFF pressuring your W.

Oh, and am I right to assume that this little bff-contrived incident (hearing OM'S voice saying "hi", etc, leading to tears, may have set back her "recovery"?

Hearing his voice might, but that's not necessarily why she was crying. I mean, the best scenario is she could be crying b/c she sees her friend putting pressure on her to cheat. Of course, you may be right, but this is a test she'll face at some point. I just wish she'd had more time behind her in the withdrawal period.

I almost feel like I should work in a "given the role bff played on the past, do you feel like she is,someone who will support your effortS to rebuild our marriage, someone you can trust to help you out here rather than pull you in the wrong direction?"

I wish you had already said something along these lines, instead of waiting till now. Personally, I feel the more you say about the BFF, at this point, the more it could turn your W sour at you.....and make it easier to rebel. It is a delicate time, and you will not be able to control your W's decisions.

I want you to be prepared for something, Jim. Your W may go to the bar to see OM, just to see if she still feels the spark. Or her dear friend may bring the OM to surprise your W, since she is trying to hook them up together. There are many things that could happen. So, brace yourself. The best outcome would be for your W to really see this as it is......and there is always that possibility. I think it depends on how much progress she has made the past few weeks. It is going to be tough for her to have the courage to part ways from her BFF, but she may do it in order to save her M.

I hope you'll post an update to let us know how she appeared when she came home.

[hoosjim]

I hope you'll post an update to let us know how she appeared when she came home.

Oh, she was a little bit sulky and reserved, though at the time I did not know about the phoncon with bff. It was later that same night that the two of us went out and really had an excellent fun time together, and she steadily warmed up as the night went on.

But... Rough week in general for her-- a close college friend passed away. She just went to the services. On way back, she did a pretty far out of the way drive by of OM's hangout, which, to my knowledge, she hasn't done in a looooong time.

I thought by the way you talked about BFF moving off it was a long ways, but an hour's drive is nothing. I'm very surprised they have been apart this long.

If and when bff moves away (please please PLEASE dear Lord let that happen) it will be very far away... over 800 miles away in Florida. For right now, bff is stuck in her current town about an hour south of her at least until her D from my friend is,finalized. Until then, she continues to come up here at least a couple days each week for work. (Unless she is travelling, which she had been doing quite a bit of lately. She wants to move to Fla because that's where her own AP lives.


And the reason my W was crying I'm pretty sure was from missing OM and his circle of friends. She did, after all, tell her bff to "say hi" and then texted the same thing to bff a little later that afternoon (yes, I checked), though by that time bff had left the bar. (Which makes me think her primary purpose for going there was to entice/tempt my W to go... grrrrrr....)

Important dynamic to note is that BFF has a completely different view of how it is appropriate for married couples to interact and communicate. She has ALWAYS given my wife crap, even 15-20 years ago when we were first married, whenever she'd ask my W to go do something and my W would say "let me check with hoosjim." I mean, that's just like common courtesy you'd do for ANY family member you were living with, and DEFINITELY for a spouse. But BFF thinks you should just be able to walk out of the house, without explanation of anything, and come back whenever you want without saying anything to spouse about it. Anything more is "Controlling." And now that BFF is, once again, single, it puts a serious crimp in her lifestyle for HER bff (my W) to be shackled down to a marriage.