My husband filed for divorce

[AnotherStander]

I believe I am entitled to 1/2 as well. He doesn't want me to take any portion of the pension which is why he's trying to offer the $70k he feels is fair.

This is the complicated, nasty side of D, splitting up the assets. Typically both parties want to leave the M financially "whole" but neither do. My W and I both had 401K investments and they were roughly the same, so when we split we agreed to each keep our own and keep that out of the D settlement.

Again, he's pulling these numbers out of the air. He has no clue what our house is now worth after renovations.

Determining the house value is actually the easiest part of D. All you need to do (and this is required by most states) is hire an independent 3rd party to assess the value of the home. They will go through the house outside and in and will also review recent area sales and provide a detailed assessment of the value. Once that value is set, it becomes part of the D decree.

I see him thinking I am making this ugly because I'm trying to get what the law allows.

No one comes out of a D happy. You've got to try and be clinical about this, he's going to get mad but that's tough sh**. Set aside your DB'ing for now, this is all about protecting yourself.

After I pay back my 401k loan which we used for the renovations, that $70k will be cut down severely and this is all he thinks I should get.

Don't pay anything back until you talk to your L. If you pay it back you may not be able to get your H to pay half that debt.

I've been with him for more than half of his time at his current employer. Why shouldn't I be entitled to his pension?

Because he doesn't want to give it to you. Period. That's the only reason. What he wants and what the law allows are two completely different matters though!

[LAJar]

Treasur, I agree, but that's where I think things will start to go south. He's convinced this is "fair" and when I possibly don't agree, he's just going to see it as me being vindictive because he doesn't want the marriage. If I'm concerned he'd see it this way, clearly I don't want him to believe that. Who knows, maybe it is fair (doubt it), but you can't offer numbers based on not much fact.

[LAJar]

Hi LAJar,

Just read your thread; ugh, this sounds really, really hard. I am sorry to read all this. It must be terribly painful! He is moving at lightening speed, has essentially abandoned his step-son, and is now pressuring you to take what money he offers you. Yikes, this guy is a bit off his rocker, isn't he! I am glad the other posters are here and imparting their wisdom. It is really hard to be in your sitch because he is so out of line, however he holds (or thinks he does) all the power and so you can only look at and change your part in this. I say this because while we can focus all day on you (as that is all you can do), clearly this guy has some big issues.

BluWave,

Thank you for your response. This forum has been truly a lifesaver.

Yes, unfortunately it feels like this is all moving too fast. He is out of line but just doesn't see it that way. He thinks he's being amicable and fair that he would offer a generous number, but based on what? Because it's only what he believes, the minute I go outside of that, he'll see it as vindictive because he no longer wants the marriage. I don't want him to think that, so that should prove I'm not being spiteful. I simply feel that he's cutting off this marriage that would have given me financial security, among other things, so why am I now not entitled to whatever is legal?

When this all happened, I couldn't shake the feeling that this was something much more like depression. I told him I was worried about him with the amount of rage he expressed. As I've begun to read up more on depression in men, much of it sounds so familiar, from again the rage, blame, sudden abandonment, all while trying to stop the unhappiness I have caused him. At this point, I would never even suggest depression to him. If that was the case, nothing I say will snap him out of this. If it isn't, I still have no control over his decisions. All I can do is control my response to him/his actions.

I don't have a ton of advice because I am not sure there is much you can do right now. He is on the war path, and so all you can do is step back and protect yourself.

I would not talk to him about D anymore or agree to any of his BS propositions. You are no dummy. Even if it feels to go against DB rules, protecting yourself and your finances always comes first.

He doesn't talk, he sends text, which is more infuriating. Things get lost in translation and I refuse to communicate like that about such important decisions. Although, I know even phone calls now are not a good idea. I need to detach, because as many decent days as I have, I have double the bad days. Any texts he sends are just about D & that upsets me, so I need to stop it.

It is okay to tell him firmly "H, I am not willing to discuss this right now." You honestly don't owe him more explanation than that. You have already told him that you don't want D and are willing to work on the M, so he now knows, and there is no reason to repeat it--anything more will be perceived as pursuing and will serve to only push him away.

As AS stated, when you "open the cage door" and they realize you won't stand in their way, sometimes they feel safe and back down a bit.

I think once I follow through with the attorney, he will see I am not stopping him. I'm not going to help, but I'm not stopping it and I will make decisions based on what he does. I don't know if that makes sense or is realistic, but I don't agree with the D.

I am glad you are seeing an IC that you like. You need support right now! Please continue to take time for you, lean on your trusted family and friends, and work on those 180 and GAL.

IC has helped. As I am intensely private, if I have begun to let others in my close circle know, it's because I know this is real. In the past, I told only my sister and kept everything a secret with the hope he'd return (he did). This time with the filing and subsequent rejection of MC, I know he's moving forward. My friends have stepped up in a big way & have reached out just to even check up on me. I'm slowly working on other GAL, things that are more for me and my self-improvement, but that's a slower process. Yes, I'm still young (43) but it's daunting to think about starting all over again - living alone, finding an apt. (no more house), and dating. He was my social life, as miserable as he claims he was, we spent all of our time together. We periodically went out separately, but the majority of our time was spent together and that's hard to no longer have that.

Sadly, these sitches can take a long, long time. Your H can try and expedite this and throw tantrums, but he is not above the law.

Sounds like he has a pattern of bottling up anger, lashing out, and running, and so know that those patterns in him will repeat themselves until he is willing to do the work and take a long hard look at himself.

Yes, this is exactly him with relationships - both ours and family. Last year not speaking to his father for 4-5 months because he thought he was creating boundaries, really wasn't a good idea. He spoke to his IC about this, but I don't think it was healthy because his sessions were not consistent and he wasn't truly working through those feelings. He said he was, but that wasn't the
case. He finally copped to not seeing his IC for 4 months (I still think it's longer) and who knows for how long before that. If he was, why wasn't he telling the IC his problems with me and wouldn't she have suggested MC or discussing issues with me? I'm rambling, but that doesn't matter now.

That is not your circus--and not your monkeys--and you just do your best to push him to the side right now and keep your focus on you.

I think continuing to go dark and avoid future meetings is your best bet right now. Let him initiate all communication. And when he does, I think you should only give him a couple minutes of your time--listen, validate, and exit. He is not safe for you emotionally right now and appears to be a ticking time bomb or trying to manipulate you to get his way. I also think it is okay for him to worry you are moving right along without him, I wouldn't want him to think he can treat you this way and then just walk back into your life.

Going dark - that's my plan. I feel like once I speak to a L, I'll have that guidance on how/what to communicate. He's done much more damage this time around, so if there was any interest to reconcile, it would come with a lot of IC and MC... if I could even get over this and trust him again.

It is hard to switch the power dynamic when someone walks out on you, but it can be done! Hold your head up high, know your worth, and you keep treating yourself (and allow friends/family to) the way you deserve! This guy is acting like a big jerk and so I am glad you are not pining over him and I wouldn't want him to think that either.

I'm trying. In my head, I know I will get through this. I've gotten through other bad relationships when I though all hope was gone (& found him actually), so I know I can do it again. Truth be told, I am pining over him at times, he just doesn't see it and I won't let him. I asked him to table, not pull the D, for a couple of months and see if we could work on things. He said, no the D is happening. Got my answer loud and clear and as you said, he knows where I stand and can reach out to me if he ever wanted to work on things. As for now, I know that's not happening and I am working to move on.

Again, thank you for your thoughtful comments. In these situations, you can't have too many ears to vent to, especially those with experience. It's a much different perspective.

Blu

[Treasur]

Treasur, I agree, but that's where I think things will start to go south. He's convinced this is "fair" and when I possibly don't agree, he's just going to see it as me being vindictive because he doesn't want the marriage. If I'm concerned he'd see it this way, clearly I don't want him to believe that. Who knows, maybe it is fair (doubt it), but you can't offer numbers based on not much fact.

He may well take them that way, LAJar, but your first job now is to stop caring about his opinion of you. He will think and feel what he does, regardless of any effort you make to influence him. As long as YOU know you are not being vindictive or petty, that's all that matters.

He has created this situation; his choice. You need to treat it as business (which is hard, I know) but let your L guide you. Right now, it is possible that your H's mindset is so out of whack that you could offer him the shirt off your back and he'd complain.

[LAJar]

I believe I am entitled to 1/2 as well. He doesn't want me to take any portion of the pension which is why he's trying to offer the $70k he feels is fair.

This is the complicated, nasty side of D, splitting up the assets. Typically both parties want to leave the M financially "whole" but neither do. My W and I both had 401K investments and they were roughly the same, so when we split we agreed to each keep our own and keep that out of the D settlement.

I am very quickly realizing this. I know neither of us are going to leave whole. My harsh reality is that I've just bought this house and was supposed to be a happy, exciting time. That has all been cut down and I will be back to an apartment & expenses on one income.

Again, he's pulling these numbers out of the air. He has no clue what our house is now worth after renovations.

Determining the house value is actually the easiest part of D. All you need to do (and this is required by most states) is hire an independent 3rd party to assess the value of the home. They will go through the house outside and in and will also review recent area sales and provide a detailed assessment of the value. Once that value is set, it becomes part of the D decree.

I figured as much. However, with all of his great plans we still have work left to complete. I'm taking care of hiring and managing contractors to complete some final projects, so the house is presentable when the time comes to sell. As he's said I'm controlling, sometimes I had to be because things wouldn't get done. This isn't my comfort zone really, but it has been out of survival from years prior to him when I was a single parent. I see now I needed to let go of some that because it didn't always work for him.

I see him thinking I am making this ugly because I'm trying to get what the law allows.

No one comes out of a D happy. You've got to try and be clinical about this, he's going to get mad but that's tough sh**. Set aside your DB'ing for now, this is all about protecting yourself.

In all honesty, I know the bottom line is that I need protect myself and will make decisions based on that. If I'm being really honest with myself, a small part of me fears making him so mad that the $ would be a final block for him to ever try to reconcile. It's a very small part because he's shown me nothing to indicate there's any interest in that.

After I pay back my 401k loan which we used for the renovations, that $70k will be cut down severely and this is all he thinks I should get.

Don't pay anything back until you talk to your L. If you pay it back you may not be able to get your H to pay half that debt.

I'm not going to. Anything I pay back will be after all of this is done.

I've been with him for more than half of his time at his current employer. Why shouldn't I be entitled to his pension?

Because he doesn't want to give it to you. Period. That's the only reason. What he wants and what the law allows are two completely different matters though!

Yup. That's the sad, honest truth.

[LAJar]

Update: Not much has happened since I last posted, until today. I have been completing some final projects on the house so it's presentable when we begin to sell. H came by the house (he's not been by in over a week) and saw the workers, so he called me at work. He asked what they were doing there and why had I not told him about this? I did and it's all in our text messages. I told him that he hasn't bothered to come by or call me for anything other than D, so I didn't think he cared to be updated on renovations. In some part of the convo (and in anger), I threw out my suspicions that he was now seeing someone. It got ugly from there and said if I wasn't taking care of wifely duties, she would. Hurtful, but suspicions confirmed and I hung up. I went to a private room to call back and he wouldn't answer but then began to text. Again, more hurtful things being thrown out & him saying I'm a victim & take no responsibility. I then stopped and just texted that he'll get the divorce. I'm lashing out because I'm hurt, but I will move on. I married forever or at least with the intent to put in the effort to try if there were issues could resolve. I take responsibility for my faults. I am working on myself, will make changes and continue to do so even without him. I acknowledged how our lack of SL made him feel like I didn't want him and was hurtful. I get it and am sorry. END OF TEXT. He responded he was sorry too and that's it.

While I'm at work, my dad has been going over to check on the progress of the projects. He went by the house and the poor workers said he came in like a bat outta hell. Asked who they are and what they were doing there (as if that wasn't obvious). They aren't fluent in English, so I guess we wasn't able to get it across that he wanted them to go. What I don't understand is that he left and only comes by when I'm gone. No phone calls to me other than giving D $ numbers. Why does he care what I'm doing with the house. These were all things we were plannning on doing anyway. He's moved on, just leave me alone & let me take care of this. Again, he used this as a way to point out my controlling nature. Is it controlling or am I just trying to be practical and take care of our investment? I guess that's why we're not together - two very different views of the same situation. I can't continue to let him just dump on me. I know that's not DB'ing, but if all is lost, does it really matter? It was clear to me the last time we spoke.

I'm a little numb as to the confirmation of another person. I suspected it when he left and removed his cell from the family plan, put extra security on the cell (they sent a conf letter to the house). His social media was limited to one site that is open, but one month prior got FB & Instagram - said he hated it prior. He believes it's not cheating because he's gone (been less than 2 months) and said it's been over for a long time (we closed on this house in April). But in all honesty, when your husband of almost 10 years leaves and there's absolutely no contact with you, what else could it be that would keep him away? I'm not saying he was so happy with me at that moment that he'd be itching to run back, but not even a flicker of interest. Greener grass will do that.

With that being said, he continues to offer $ amounts based on nothing. He's going to have a rude awakening when it comes time to discuss real numbers. I am going for a consultation with a lawyer on Friday and am looking to set up another.

[LAJar]

Since my previous post, I feel like H is now on to being just completely vindictive. I don't know why I do this to myself, other than to continue to rip the proverbial band-aid off, but I looked at his social media page. He had taken a picture of him and his new female out on a "date". Yup, talk about a stab to the heart. I happened to look at it before I went to bed and there went my sleep.

It makes sense now why he's stayed away and is so ready to end everything in divorce. I don't necessarily think he was having a PA before he left. I believe with the new social media pages, there may have been some flirting going on. I think that opened the door to him feeling good about himself, a look into what could be without me. Once he left, it was full steam ahead. He seems to not consider this cheating since he's let me know he wants a divorce. He has been gone less than 2 months and I'm an emotional wreck, so I personally consider this cheating.

I'm sad, make no mistake, but I take some solace in the small petty things. Not that any of this matters, but helps the bruised ego. Does she know he was home less than 2 months ago? I'm sure he told her it's been a long time coming and he was miserable. What type of person would be happy to start a relationship this way? I would run the other way, but that's me.

This is a sad reality to a 14 year relationship. I am still working on things and trying to keep myself occupied. None of it particularly exciting - out for dinner, long phone calls, shopping. I am looking into some trainings for a potential new job opportunity, which I am somewhat excited about. If successful, I think it has the potential to give me more financial freedom once single and open new doors for socializing. Right now I'm a bit limited in that I only have one single girlfriend.

All of this is tough, but I think I needed this confirmation, because prior to this it was all assumptions spinning in my head. Until next time...

[LAJar]

One last thought. I ended up blocking my H's number from my phone. I have asked him not to call me before work or at work - it really just ruins my day because the calls are never pleasant. I can't stop him from calling my office phone, but I can stop his calls to my cell. If he needs to contact me, he can always email. These calls aren't productive and really just consist of him asking what I'd like from the divorce, then me getting upset. I'd rather not. I told my dad and brother and they both thought that would make him really mad. I don't see why I should care, but I'm not trying to antagonize. Thoughts?

[25yearsmlc]

LA

so sorry you are here. Just a quick request and I'll be back to read your whole thread.

Can you fill in the signature block (on your profile) so that we can get a recap of your marriage's length, whether you have kids and how old they are and your h's age (I recall you are 43).

And the "main" issues can be summarized by the "Bomb date" and any big fat reasons (or what he claims they are). It helps A LOT b/c some of us post on several DBers threads and it's very easy to forget which marriage is which.

Thanks.

And btw, depending on the length of the m, kids, the issues, our advice will vary.

Did you say you are reading the DR book? If so, great.
And hiring a DB coach is a very good idea.

I found mine to be exactly what I needed then.

And protecting yourself financially IS DBing. It's self care, and without that it's hard to have respect from a spouse.

And spousal respect is part of every healthy m.

Don't give up and keep posting. See about hiring a coach. If you paid out of pocket before, then a 3 session package is well worth it, imo.

((( )))

[25yearsmlc]

One last thought. I ended up blocking my H's number from my phone. I have asked him not to call me before work or at work - it really just ruins my day because the calls are never pleasant.

what is his response to ^^^this? Do you answer the emails sooner? How is that different? I'm asking. If you are "caught" in a conversation, let him know that you are "still processing this and will certainly give it some thought" and keep repeating that if he persists. It's not a weird angry response, assuming your tone is civil.

Not sure if you are a spiritual person but if you are, try this exercise so that you can lessen the pain you are in AND more calmly respond to him.

When you are alone, turn it over to the Universe or God or whatever term you are comfortable with.
Think out the words & then say them - "God, I turn my pain & anger over to you."

Say it out loud and hear yourself say it. I used to do this when I expected h to call me or the kids. I'd do it in the shower so no one thought I was losing my head.

I would say it 50 times and when you think it, say it and hear yourself saying it, It sinks in. I calmed down enough to cope with a short conversation with h.

That ^^^was a change for me. And having civil conversations rather than arguments is simply more pleasant and clearer. You can later, build on that. This change in YOUR response will do more to show change in you, than any words you might have wanted to say.

Also, the more you challenge your h's choices, the more you force him to defend them them. This tends to cement his decisions.

Any arguments in favor of staying married - are going to be wasted on him at this time.

And they are usually counter productive, (hurts the cause) rather than just ineffective.


I can't stop him from calling my office phone, but I can stop his calls to my cell. If he needs to contact me, he can always email.

These calls aren't productive and really just consist of him asking what I'd like from the divorce, then me getting upset. I'd rather not.

IF you agree to answer the emails within a reasonable amount of time, then treasure him that you are not ignoring his messages BUT that his calls at work are "distracting".
Don't point out your pain to him.
Guilting him will backfire and frankly, it's not going to attract him back. Most men are uncomfortable when their wives cry, and they tend to flee faster.

Again, refer him to your need to take some time to process this, as it's a very important decision for both of you. And if you see a L, ask them about disclosing things. One thing I've realized is that treating my L as if she's my T, is expensive and not helpful. Talk emotions to the therapist and the law/legal strategy with your L.

PLEASE get as much information as you can asap about where you both bank, get some pictures of his pension and info re the 401k, any IRAs, cars & collections, savings, personal property value,) what YOU contributed to the renovations and such.

This is the most important financial transaction of your life. Be informed. See a L and realize that knowledge is power. His anger is not relevant to protecting your life and future security. Besides, when the dust settles the tempers will lessen.

Better to be financially secure and risk a bit of awkwardness at future events, than being ripped off and resentful the rest of your life.

what is your goal? To protect yourself? Okay. There is nothing vindictive there. Watch the tone you use with him. My DB coach used to say to "act as if the sedative you did not actually take, is kicking in."

There is power in the economy of words. Don't waste your breath. Calm interactions and you ending them first b/c you are busy GAL and being upbeat, will model the changes you want to make.


I told my dad and brother and they both thought that would make him really mad. I don't see why I should care, but I'm not trying to antagonize. Thoughts?

See above. You will never regret behaving in a strong & dignified way.

Hang in there. It gets better!