Leah, part 4

[leahsue]

Still want thoughts and ideas on my musings and questions above, but I went ahead and called the attorney's office. He's so far booked out, even with the favors called in to get me an appointment, it may have still taken a month. So I'm glad I went ahead and called. Assistant is going to talk to him and call me back with an appointment, and a ball-park retainer fee. Gulp.

But I'm glad I made the call. It feels like a plan, but a well-thought out one by the time I get there. My S35 is happy with it, too. Now I'm going to use him to do some limb trimming in the yard. He'll love that. LOL.

[AndrewP]

leahsue - your jurisdiction may have different rules but here there's a 90 day window for filing based on adultery. It's assumed if you've waited more than 90 days that you're ok with an open marriage. The law also goes on to very explicitly point out that if "you" are the adulterous one that you can't use that clause . To my knowledge having sex with your H doesn't change anything on that.

The advice that I've read and from what my own L advised me is that filing based on adultery means going straight to court and much higher fees. It is a possibly faster exit but not necessarily so.

Again, your jurisdiction may be different but the separation agreement is separate from the divorce and "fault" may play no part in deciding who gets what especially since the kids are grown so being a "good parent" isn't a factor. You could get a divorce for adultery and then spend years fighting over the "stuff".

My recommendation is to go see this lawyer for just a consult and pay for an hour or so of their time. This will do two things. First off it will acquaint you with how the law and procedures apply in your case. Secondly it takes this particular lawyer off the eligible ones for your H. I once read a story where a woman had a consult with "all" the available lawyers in her area just to block her H from them.

Have your list of questions prepared and have all your facts at hand for the lawyer. You'll want to create a timeline and be able to easily answer questions about the preferred settlement. Don't let them waste time doing up forms or getting financial information at this point. Time "is" money to a lawyer. Ask questions such as if it is in your best interest to file or to wait for your H to file. Ask about options for equalization of assets. If the size of the legal spend is a concern ask what compromises you could / should make to streamline the process. And perhaps ask if they can recommend a lower priced colleague to take your case? OwnIt will confirm but all the lawyers in a geography and area of practice will all know one another and have opinions on each other .

In my case my original pick for a lawyer was a junior partner in an established firm knowing that the junior would consult with the senior partner essentially giving me a pretty powerful team. I'm actually a firm believer as well that the most important person in the legal office is the secretary and it was the efficiency of the secretary getting back to me and setting up the appointment that got them my case. A well organized admin person will have your forms prepared and filed on time and they'll be right. They are your main contact person and will chase down the lawyer to do their job of giving opinions and sounding important in front of a judge.

Good luck!

[cadence]

Leah,

I am concerned because you were leaning in one direction, and now you're leaning in the other because of your son's feedback and because people pulled strings to get you an appointment with a fancy attorney.

You get one life and I think the most important piece of the decision to file for D is if it is what you want (or in some posters' stories, if it's a necessity for protection.)

So is this what you want? Not what others want for you to want, but what you want?

If you're uncertain and would just be going to the appointment to educate yourself, I think that's great. I just don't want you to be pressured to move forward unless that's what is right for you...

[OwnIt]

Leah,

I'm with Cadence. Having a little insight into your situation, there is nothing that yet sounds off bells in terms of you needing to rush out and do anything. I will be posting an update shortly on my own thread that shows things do change, as we would expect.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the need for the most expensive lawyer in town. I went against that route in hiring my own attorney. I found a solo that knows her stuff and is an ethical biller. When you go with the hotshot you will largely get an associate doing the work with the senior partner sticking his nose in now and again (and boy will you see the time on the bill). No one person is really going to know your case and be on top of it.

Make the appointment if it makes you comfortable to do so, but in the meantime keep shopping for a single person that is going to work on your case that you feel comfortable with and who understands your goals.

I have no idea on AL law, but I'd want to get in and talk to someone I trust.

Go to the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers and find someone in your area. These are folks who specialize in family law (do not go with an attorney who will help you with an auto accident, divorce, will and estate or criminal case). You want a specialist who knows their stuff and devotes their time to this practice. That way you are not paying for them to come up to speed and they can advise you up front.

[leahsue]

Thanks everyone!

Andrew- This lawyer that I am getting an appointment with is the same one I consulted with back in January, and he (really his partner) has the best reputation here in town for divorces, so at least that eliminates my H being able to use him, since I've already had one consultation with him.

Cadence and Ownit- yes, admittedly my S did make me think more about what I need to do, but I fully expected that from him. He's a worrier, and I know wants to save me from future pain, and to see me financially protect myself. I think I am doing the logical, sensible thing in making the appointment, but then waiting a month to see him. That way there's much less chance of my filing being a "knee-jerk" reaction to the pain, and also my NOT filing, based on my feelings after seeing him. I just need more time. And that I have plenty of, thankfully.

Thanks for everyone's input! I value it and this place is a wonderful resource to get input from people who already know so much about your situation, but also people from all walks of life and personal experiences, who can offer from their perspective.

[AnotherStander]

Leah, I saw your post to me in the other thread so popped over, first I will say I am in no way a D expert! I consulted with a L during my D but I am in a different state (TX) so what applies here may or may not apply there.

Also, I'm still struggling with the term "no-fault" divorce. I guess when I hear that, it makes me think that neither party is claiming that the other is in any way "at fault", but it's been explained to me that is not exactly true, that it's a misleading phrase. That if this were to go to court, for example, I could still claim that adultery caused the break up of this marriage (by H's own admission to adultery), and that the judge could choose to take that into consideration.

Here is what I was told about "no fault" states. In the old days, both parties would claim that the D was the other's fault and ask the court to find "in their favor". IE, they wanted more visitation, more money, etc. because the D was the fault of the other party. Here's the problem, let's say your H is having an affair. So you present that to the court as evidence that the D is his "fault". But then he comes back and says "well yes I had an A, but my wife NEVER had sex with me, was emotionally abusive and completely checked out as a wife and mother to our children." So whose fault is it now? You've heard the term "he said, she said" I'm sure, well that's where it comes from. The courts were bogged down listening to endless "evidence" and trying to decipher it to determine fault. In the end many states have said "you know what, we can't sort through all this stuff, so we're going to say that ALL divorces are due to BOTH spouses being EQUALLY at fault, so from now on we're looking at things strictly from a financial perspective."

So a "no fault" state has nothing to do with both spouses claiming the other isn't at fault, it is the STATE saying BOTH parties are at fault, and they won't even consider evidence that the D is one person's or the other's "fault". If you are in a no fault state then it is very likely that the judge will not consider adultery as an issue. It's not even on his radar. Now if you can present evidence of physical abuse that's another matter. That would be considered, especially in regards to visitation.

[AnotherStander]

Leah, I just Googled "is Alabama a no fault divorce state" and there were some interesting articles, apparently Alabama has provisions for "no fault" divorce AND "fault-based". So in your case, the answer depends on which type of D you're going for. Adultery in a fault-based state can be considered and at the judge's discretion may affect the alimony amount. So it's definitely something you want to talk to your L about.

Also you asked if having sex with your H would affect the judge's decision, yes it very well could. Your's H's lawyer could argue that you "didn't care" about the affair because you continued to have sex with him, so if his affair was so harmful to you, why would you do that?" So tread carefully there!

[leahsue]

Excellent information! Thank you SO much!

[Citygrl]

Hi Leah. Saw your post and wanted to chime in. When my husband first left I did get names and called a few lawyers. It actually made me feel a lot more secure in the process. The best part is that I was able to choose the lawyer I really liked should my husband pull the trigger or something transpired (was thinking OW pregnancy, which hasn't happened) where I needed to file, etc. Turns out, when 4 years later I received surprise divorce papers I had my lawyer lined-up. In the end I decided not to go with him as he had been promoted and handled very high level cases but he referred me to another firm with whom I am very happy. He was also a fallback if I decided to change attorneys. He is brilliant.
That said, it really helped having someone lined up. I also saw some attorneys who I thought my husband may use. Glad I did that as well as from that process I learned there are some weak ones and I felt even better about my choice. As it turns out my husbands attorney has a reputation for going to court (#££££) and that is the direction he has been leading my head in the sand husband. Knowledge is power, I hope.
Do what you feel is right. In my case things go up and down and I took a backseat to give myself a breather when I realised how financially my life was going to quickly change along with a huge move and new career. I needed time to start processing that.
You will know what is right for you. Trust yourself and know the risks so if you do make a mistake along the way you know that was a risk. If you are persuaded to do something and it doesn't work you will always have that doubt.

[leahsue]

Wow, now here's an update.

After seeing H last Monday, as you all know, my heart took off on another of those famous rollercoaster rides.

He has gone back to texting every other day or so, kind of abrupt, like- "hope your week went well", which he texted Friday night at 11:20 PM.
WTF?

I was awake, so I texted back, not so great, I'm sick, but thanks for asking. (My neighbor keeps her 6 month old grandaughter, and she called me Friday morning in a panic and said she felt like she was going to faint, could I please come over and take the baby- so I did. We all thought it was food poisoning, but then later Friday, baby and I both came down with it- so now we think 24 hr stomach yucky thing.) Anyway, Saturday, he texted about 2 in afternoon and said just thought I would reach out and see if you're feeling better. I said "YES, so much better. And I took your advice, and I have a date tonight!" (He had said when he was here last week that I should date- I said, why? so it will make you feel like we are even?- and we kind of laughed about it.) WELL, my friends, his reaction stunned me!

He said "I AM SO JEALOUS I CAN'T STAND IT."

Then "Well, you go on your date and have fun and maybe I will see you sometime in the future."

LOL. It sounded like something I would have said to him back in January, coming from a place of huge hurt. I guess that's why I recognized it as that.

I texted back and said- well you sound pi$$ed, but I'm only doing exactly what you said you've done, and that I should do, which is moving on. You've always been my person, H, but you have replaced me with OW (and I called her by name), so it's time for me to move forward too.

There was more, but I can't remember it all, anyway, we went back and forth a bit, with him saying I don't know what you mean, etc.
Whatever.
I said ummmmmm..... OW, age 48, lives in NYC, etc. If you're in love with her, that's one thing, but if you are mixed up in something that is dangerous (more to that story from some things I've seen in his phone records that leads me to think he is in over his head, and that she may be a part of it- maybe some not so legal kinds of stuff), then just be very careful. I'd hate to see things go bad for you, even as we move toward this divorce.

This is what he texted back- "I AM IN LOVE WITH YOU, NOT OW, BUT I GUESS YOU ARE JUST NOT GOING TO SEE IT."

Again, WTF?

I realized he must be either drinking, or otherwise impaired, so I moved to end the conversation, since I was about to leave on my "date". I just said, you take care of yourself, and no hard feelings, right? Our splitting up was your choice, not mine, remember? Talk to you later.

He texted back this big OK emoji, then a line full of hearts, and then he CALLED MY PHONE. I didn't answer, then he texted "Sorry."

Then he texted, "Have fun on your date, and hopefully I will talk to you soon. Emoji wink."

THEN HE CALLED MY PHONE AGAIN. (I do think that one was by accident though. No one would be that stupid.) So of course, then he texts AGAIN and said "I am so sorry. I promise I did not mean to call you."

I did not respond to any of that last things. Then yesterday he called, and I was at the home place farm with awful service, so when I didn't answer, then he texted and said "I hate to bother you, but just wanted to make sure it was you that withdrew $100 from the account- not a problem if you did, just making sure it was you since you don't normally do that." That really didn't make sense, and I think he was just temp checking after his weird behavior the night before.
I just answered, Yes it was me. I'm at the farm so bad cell service.

I don't expect to hear from him for a while. I'm sure he is ashamed of letting himself be too transparent with his feelings. But that is just the craziest interaction we have had in months.

Still moving toward my Sept. 13 appointment with attorney. Still an interesting ride getting there. I will stay NC.

PS- It was more of a group outing than an actual "DATE", but he doesn't need to know that, right? Sure set him off. Plus, it was huge fun. Doing it again this next weekend! Cute guy too, so there's that.:)