My husband filed for divorce

[LAJar]

I'm not sure how to quote as you did, so bear with me.

At the bottom of the post you want to quote, hit the "quote" button. It'll open a reply window with all the text in it. Then what I do is select the text I want to quote, highlight it and hit the " (quotation mark) button at the top of the screen and it'll place quote tags around the text. Then I type my reply below that and keep repeating for each quote.

I think I've got the hang of this now.

Just curious, what about my post made you think that?

It was in your comments, you said that your H said that you were controlling and then you gave a few examples such as you never letting him make any design decisions on the apartment and the house. Even though he says he's "done" you don't know that he is. And a big part of DB'ing is taking all of the things that our WAS tells us we were doing wrong and doing 180's on those things. So that's part of what we're here to do is help you see the things you need to do 180's on. We try to do it without upsetting or offending

It is most definitely difficult to see what you're doing wrong all of the time. This will be a good opportunity, if given, to do some 180s. I know there were better ways of handling some of our issues. Looking back on the conflict and really trying to see how what I treated him, it affected him and validating his feelings should have been so simple to see.

I never complained about his friends. I had an issue with 1 when we first got together, which we resolved. Another who he rarely saw is a drug abuser and only called my husband for money. I didn't care for that, but had my husband wanted to be around him, I would have. The move was difficult. It added an extra 25 minutes to my commute making it an hour. I didn't complain incessantly about it but at the beginning it was frustrating. I got over it. I agreed to the move, so I had to get over it & shut up. I told him I needed time for it to feel like home, but it would come. It's just my process.

Well, I understand what you are saying but I think you are still downplaying and justifying when you should be saying "how can I do a 180 on this." You haven't posted a lot but I already see this repeating pattern of you talking about something you did wrong in the M and then proceeding to explain it away as not being a big thing. But, you may not have SAID you didn't like the move, that you didn't like his friends, that you hated someone asking him for money, but I'd be willing to bet that he FELT your anger, frustration and other negative emotions. You can't hide that stuff! So you don't think it was a big deal, but HE probably did. And when your spouse feels you're doing something wrong and you think it's nothing, then resentment builds.

Actually after reading one section of the book, I think I'm less downplaying his feelings and more just trying to get him to see my side (that I'm right). Change him? A lot of it was dumb, petty stuff. I look back on certain things and think, why didn't you just let it go? Some things are just not worth the battle. No matter the argument, I really and truly cared about his feelings in those moments. I was more intent on getting him to see things from my perspective.

Maybe when the behaviors continue, even if they're acknowledged, it conveys invalidation?

Definitely! Good observation.

I have my own issues with sex. I knew he wanted it, he knew I was standoffish. I didn't acknowledge how it made him feel when I put him off. For me though, his approach was lacking as well, but not something we ever discussed. For a woman, that's a hard one to bypass.

I am definitely not saying he is perfect and without fault. Personally I feel that ANY spouse that leaves the M is displaying a huge lack of character, but we're here to deal with the one thing in this we have control over- ourselves. So there's nothing you can do about HIS approach, only YOURS. After you finish DR, read the 5 Love Languages, it's a great book that addresses how to communicate in the love languages of others instead of our own love language. A lot of times when marriages fail it's because both spouses quit filling the other's emotional needs. One of the big points in the book is when that happens, we can't sit around waiting for our spouse to fill our emotional bank account. We have to fill THEIRS first. WE have to do the work. But when we do, the payoff is huge because when we meet THEIR emotional needs first, then they WANT to meet ours.

Another stinger, you write that our relationship seemed pretty terrible. In what I conveyed, what made it seem "pretty terrible"?

You've mentioned a nonexistent sex life, controlling behavior, criticizing (verbally or emotionally) of everything from his friends to the place you lived, poor communication, not listening/ understanding/ validating. If you asked me to sit down a make a list of the 10 most damaging marriage killing traits I would rank those as the top 5!

I was mistaken to believe all of the time we spent together, the fun we had, getting through the outside work & family difficulties together was evidence of a good relationship.

We ALL had good things in our marriages. But we had failures as well. Eventually the bad outweighs the good for the WAS and they want out.

It may be too little too late, but I'm at least willing to acknowledge & work on myself.

That's all any of us can do. Maybe it'll bring our spouse back into a better R, or maybe our next R will go that much smoother. But regardless, it's work we need to put in. And it never ends, DB'ing is forever.

I have become a little resentful because things weren't always the greatest with him either. I just didn't resort to walking out. I gave him the opportunity to work on himself, when I expressed an issue with his behavior. He walks away when I would like that same chance?

WAS's are far from perfect, and almost always they are just as guilty of failures as the LBS, if not more so. But we can't work on them, only ourselves. And believe me, we are ALL right there with you in thinking that simply walking out on the M is NOT FAIR and NOT valid conflict resolution!!!!

I'm trying not to give up hope, but without any contact it's hard. I am reading the book, going to counseling and getting through life best as I can.

I know it's hard, just hang in there! One foot in front of the other. Sometimes you have to focus on getting through the day and nothing more. And if that's too much then getting through the next hour. Healing will come, but it takes a while.

The last day or so I've felt a little better - sleeping more, eating more. The book has been so eye-opening and all just basic concepts. It makes me shake my head sometimes. Posting my personal business is so outside of my comfort zone and commenting on other's busiess as well. I lurk and definitely read, so I guess that's half the battle.

One thing has happened. He and my brother are friends and he texted to wish my brother happy birthday. He had previously ignored a text from my brother. I didn't ask my brother to respond, but he thanked him & asked if he wants to meet up and talk. My husband said yes. My son is having a hard time with this and my brother wants to talk to him about that. He hasn't reached out to my son at all, which is really heartbreaking for me.
I'm going to ask my brother not to specifically bring up our situation, what his plans are, etc. As much as I try to fight it though, it's giving me a little sliver of hope. I am really trying not to read too much into the fact he responded when initially he ignored him. I'm trying to work with what he said he wanted and continue to work on myself and whatever happens, happens. Trying.

Your insights have been invaluable. Honestly. When your spouse tells you how you are, it's easy to dismiss it as being one-sided. A stranger, based on words you yourself wrote?! That's a whole other level. I can deal with it, but now I just need to work on doing things differently.

[AnotherStander]

Actually after reading one section of the book, I think I'm less downplaying his feelings and more just trying to get him to see my side (that I'm right).

Oh man can I ever relate. It's been a lifelong struggle for me to try not to do that. I still struggle with it with my GF, and it's really tough with her because she is the exact same way.

I look back on certain things and think, why didn't you just let it go? Some things are just not worth the battle.

Again, this is me!! So hard to stop yourself while "in the moment" though.

Posting my personal business is so outside of my comfort zone and commenting on other's busiess as well. I lurk and definitely read, so I guess that's half the battle.

Well that's the beauty of these forums, they are completely anonymous. We discourage using names here so that it can remain that way. It is a "safe place" for discussion of things you can't talk to friends and family about because it might get back to your spouse.

I didn't ask my brother to respond, but he thanked him & asked if he wants to meet up and talk. My husband said yes. My son is having a hard time with this and my brother wants to talk to him about that.

Well, first of all don't expect it to go well because your H is likely to tell your brother about how done he is, how there's no hope, etc. etc. That's what WAS's do. It doesn't mean there's no hope though!

I'm going to ask my brother not to specifically bring up our situation, what his plans are, etc.

Yes, good!

As much as I try to fight it though, it's giving me a little sliver of hope. I am really trying not to read too much into the fact he responded when initially he ignored him.

Do have hope, but don't have hope over this. It's too soon. He's likely just going to use this as an opportunity to "prep" everyone that the M is over. But that doesn't mean it IS over. He's following the WAS script.

Your insights have been invaluable. Honestly. When your spouse tells you how you are, it's easy to dismiss it as being one-sided. A stranger, based on words you yourself wrote?! That's a whole other level. I can deal with it, but now I just need to work on doing things differently.

You are an awesome woman, if you weren't you wouldn't have come here in the first place. So please, take this all as constructive criticism and not a statement about who you are as a person. It hurts to hear sometimes, but we take the comments and we make adjustments and we move forward as better people for it

[LAJar]

Actually after reading one section of the book, I think I'm less downplaying his feelings and more just trying to get him to see my side (that I'm right).

Oh man can I ever relate. It's been a lifelong struggle for me to try not to do that. I still struggle with it with my GF, and it's really tough with her because she is the exact same way.

The struggle is real. I guess the least you can do is try, but that should definitely be appreciated by your significant other.

I look back on certain things and think, why didn't you just let it go? Some things are just not worth the battle.

Again, this is me!! So hard to stop yourself while "in the moment" though.

Before all of this happened, I was working on it and trying my best to phrase things in a more positive way. Less getting angry and more asking can you do this or that instead. Guess that still wasn't the right way. I guess it will always be something I have to be mindful of and work on stopping, especially for the small things that really don't matter.

Posting my personal business is so outside of my comfort zone and commenting on other's busiess as well. I lurk and definitely read, so I guess that's half the battle.

Well that's the beauty of these forums, they are completely anonymous. We discourage using names here so that it can remain that way. It is a "safe place" for discussion of things you can't talk to friends and family about because it might get back to your spouse.

I didn't ask my brother to respond, but he thanked him & asked if he wants to meet up and talk. My husband said yes. My son is having a hard time with this and my brother wants to talk to him about that.

Well, first of all don't expect it to go well because your H is likely to tell your brother about how done he is, how there's no hope, etc. etc. That's what WAS's do. It doesn't mean there's no hope though!

I'm going to ask my brother not to specifically bring up our situation, what his plans are, etc.

Yes, good!

My brother was out of town and I haven't spoken to him in a few days. They were supposed to talk today, but I don't even know if that's going to happen.

As much as I try to fight it though, it's giving me a little sliver of hope. I am really trying not to read too much into the fact he responded when initially he ignored him.

Do have hope, but don't have hope over this. It's too soon. He's likely just going to use this as an opportunity to "prep" everyone that the M is over. But that doesn't mean it IS over. He's following the WAS script.

That makes sense. I wanted it to be a good sign, but deep down knew it wasn't a whole lot. It's been more than a week without any communication, but he just texted me. Funny, I was coming to the forums to do some reading when the text came through. Bam! Just like a mack truck, he puts me back to day one. My grandmother recently went through surgery, which he found out from his sister. He texted to wish her a speedy recovery and good luck when I move my son this weekend. He then writes, "good luck with your son's move" and can we talk next week (presumably about divorce, selling house). Like a slap in the face. As I said before, he's been the father-figure to my son and that's how he refers to him?! My son, again, is having a hard time with this, from feeling angry at how he's left me and angry/sad in that he's had no communication with him whatsover. As you said before, it is such a lack of character. Now with this latest, it continues to show that and more. I don't even know how to respond. My anger and hurt are through the roof right now. I was planning on texting him about the mortgage & didn't even do that. Since he hadn't reached out to me, I was just going to pay it this month & see where things stood for the next month. He's not even mentioned it, but now this dumb text? I'm so angry.
Is there an actual "playbook" of how the WAS behaves? I'd love a link.

Your insights have been invaluable. Honestly. When your spouse tells you how you are, it's easy to dismiss it as being one-sided. A stranger, based on words you yourself wrote?! That's a whole other level. I can deal with it, but now I just need to work on doing things differently.

You are an awesome woman, if you weren't you wouldn't have come here in the first place. So please, take this all as constructive criticism and not a statement about who you are as a person. It hurts to hear sometimes, but we take the comments and we make adjustments and we move forward as better people for it

After getting this text, I really needed these kind words. I swear I'm trying - even if just for myself. This treatment is really just trying my patience and fortitude. I know I'm not the only one experiencing these things and I'll get through this just like the rest. Breathe and don't respond is my mantra.

[LAJar]

So I ended up calming myself down and responded to the text. I said thanks and that I could talk next week on my day off. I find this a waste of time because I'm not going to negotiate with him the terms of our divorce. I'm going to seek legal cousel and then see what's recommended. He keeps pressing me to discuss as if all of this will be wrapped up in a couple of months (sell house, divide assets/debt). I've resolved to hear him out & will fight like hell to take the high road. Any advice on how to proceed with this meeting, especially if it starts to get contentious. Some 180s (just in case)?

Part of me wants this over & done w/ as quickly as possible because I don't think he'll give us another shot. Things are obviously also really shaky financially & I just want to some stability again. We're just shy of a month & I know it's just begun...

[Treasur]

Biggest 180 that occurs to me from your thread is to do the opposite of controlling...(you can let your control genie out with your L to look after your own needs, lol!)

So, I guess that would be listen, validate, don't interpret what he says, don't try to tell him what you think, lots of 'well, I need some time to think about that' and 'what's your suggestion about x'.... Tough though, so I'd keep the meeting REALLY short. Best guess is that he's doing it to 'get things sorted' (but will either have no clue or a ridiculous plan) and to scratch his venting itch.

You said wisely that you're not doing it to negotiate stuff...what's your purpose and objective for the meeting?

[AnotherStander]

Is there an actual "playbook" of how the WAS behaves? I'd love a link.

DR is as close as you'll get. They all follow a loose script but the details are different for each sitch.

I find this a waste of time because I'm not going to negotiate with him the terms of our divorce. I'm going to seek legal cousel and then see what's recommended.

Great idea on consulting a L.

He keeps pressing me to discuss as if all of this will be wrapped up in a couple of months (sell house, divide assets/debt). I've resolved to hear him out & will fight like hell to take the high road. Any advice on how to proceed with this meeting, especially if it starts to get contentious. Some 180s (just in case)?

180's don't really apply when it comes to negotiating the D. Look out for your best interests. Don't let him steamroll you. If he says a bunch of stuff you disagree with then don't argue, just tell him the terms are not acceptable to you and that you'll both have to get L's involved to work it out and the meeting is over.

Things are obviously also really shaky financially & I just want to some stability again.

If you depend on him for assistance and he is not providing it, then talk to a L right away. You might have to file some kind of a support order, I honestly don't know how such things work but protecting yourself financially comes first.

[Jim1234]

I've resolved to hear him out & will fight like hell to take the high road. Any advice on how to proceed with this meeting, especially if it starts to get contentious.

Just like you said, don't negotiate. That comes later. Just say you have to consult your lawyer about your rights.

But you need to listen to him, acknowledge and validate the crap out of his feelings. Don't bring up saving the marriage. That's pursuing, and it won't be helpful at this time. But if he brings it up, surprise him with the depth of your understanding and willingness to accept responsibility for your part in the deterioration of your marriage. DO NOT CRITICIZE HIM OR MENTION HIS PART. He has to want to get back together before this comes up, or you will just chase him further away.

Whatever he says, DO NOT ARGUE. From his point of view, he's right, and right now, your point of view doesn't matter. You want to make every interaction with you as pleasant as possible, but that doesn't mean you have to let him walk all over you.

Listen and validate. These might be the 180s you are looking for.

Good luck

[LAJar]

Treasur,

What he's conveyed to me about being controlling, it had to do with our house renovations. That's difficult to show a reversal when we're not even discussing any of that. I'm sure there are other instances, but again petty small things that I should have let go.Since he's left, I'm moving forward with some basics that need to be completed if/when we sell the house. The only thing I thought about was getting him to weigh in on that. I would feel him out first to see if I should even broach the subject. I guess just listening and validating is what I can do overall.

Yes, I was planning on keeping it to maybe 30 minutes. If necessary even telling him I have to be somewhere. I will only stick to the D, selling the house. If he brings up our R, what do I do with that? Do I avoid the topic?

Since yesterday, my brother decided not to call him after I told him about the text. He did, however, talk to my son about it and my son ended up asking to talk and he responded quickly. I was told that last week my son had driven by my FIL's house (where he's staying) but decided against stopping in because he was too mad. Since that point he's calmed down, but hadn't told me he did this, so yesterday I asked him. He said he was going to tell me at some point this week. He said he's confused because we're giving him 2 different stories. I owned up to controlling & some other issues he brought up. Where it differs is the effort put in. He has in his head we've tried in the
past, but that I never made any changes. He made it seem as if we had gone to continuous therapy sessions & it just didn't work. We went to 3, they changed our therapist after the 1st & I didn't too much care for the 2nd. They were scheduling us 4-6 weeks apart and I was frustrated. I'll speak for myself, things were "fine" and I became complacent. Maybe he feels my lack of effort was from not continuing on. I did find another therapist months later, went alone & paid out of pocket so I could go more frequently and went for about 6 months. That was about 6 years ago. I just didn't realize he was at this point and my behaviours were affecting him so much. I would like the opportunity to work on myself & make positive changes. My son said he only spoke about the D and doesn't seem like he wants to try.
Long answer regarding meeting goal, is really just to hear him out. He's persisted on meeting so we could work this out amicably. I will hear his suggestions and say I'll have to think about that & will get back to you. One odd thing, I was concerned he wasn't going to pay the mortgage, but I looked online & he did. He told my son I could live in the house & he'd pay it for as long as I needed. That really confused me. Maybe he's thinking w/ a clearer head now (financially speaking)? We only bought it 4 months ago. Just feels like staying as long as I need to will prolong the inevitable if he's not interested in reconciling. Thoughts?

[LAJar]

Our agreement was he pays the mortgage & I pay the other household bills (gas, light, etc.). I said in an earlier response to Treasur, he has in fact paid the mortgage - thankfully. He told my son he'll pay as long as I need him to. I will have to get clarification on what that means exactly. I think as long as it doesn't get contentious, he's not going steamroll me. If I stay calm, I hope that he will too. I will try my hardest to maintain that.
My kid is great and just told my H to do right by his mom. He said he would. I think if nothing else, he'll at least try to maintain civilty because of that.

[LAJar]

Jim1234,

Thank you for this! It's the first time I will be seeing & actually speaking to him in about a month, so I wasn't sure how I should respond if he brought up anything outside of the D.

Yesterday's mantra was breathe & don't respond (to text). Today's and up until we meet will be acknowledge and validate the crap out of his feelings.

Yes, these are exactly the 180s I'm looking for. If given the opportunity, it would be great start & he'll definitely be surprised.

Thanks again & here's to hoping!