KGirl - new life, new stuff #2

[KGirl]

^^ yeeeeppp. I feel like every relationship I've ever been in results in me being the pursuer. It's like I don't want it because I want the other person to take initiative, but then I do it anyways, and then I get resentful, but then I can't help myself and keep doing it, etc. One of my friends suggested "why don't you plan your life as if he doesn't exist? Like if you're debating to go do something or say yes to plans, think what would you do if he wasn't in the picture?" etc. I'm finding it super hard, I don't know if it's a people-pleasing thing or what.

[kml]

I guess I worry that if I fill my time with other plans and there's nothing left for him, then I won't see him at all. But maybe that's what has to happen for him to realize "hey I guess I need to plan ahead if I want to see KGirl" and if he doesn't realize that then obviously he is not that interested in seeing me in the first place.

Exactly this! Go about your life, make plans with friends, do NOT be sitting home waiting for him! Soon enough he'll get the message that he has to make plans with you in advance. (This, btw, is what grown up men who have a genuine interest in a woman do.)

Let me tell you a story. When I was first dating after my divorce, I dated several guys that would fall into the category of Love Avoidants. They wanted SOME intimacy. but didn't need much of it, and didn't want to be obligated in any way.

I had a "coffee buddy" that I would chat with at my local Starbucks in the morning, and was telling him about my travails with my current Love Avoidant "boyfriend". Turns out, coffee buddy was also Love Avoidant and he told me what it's like from his perspective. He said, if he made a date with a woman on Monday to go out on Friday night, it hung over him all week "like a dentist appointment" lol. So he'd wait until Friday to call, if she was available, great, if not, he'd just call another girl or just hang out by himself. He was perfectly happy with that approach but I bet it drove his dates crazy. The truth of the matter was, he just didn't CARE ENOUGH whether the date worked out or not. And he was terrified of feeling obligated if it turned out he just wasn't in the mood once Friday rolled around.

Now - your new date might just be super busy and you might be too needy. OR he might be a classic Love Avoidant. His past history with relationships might give you a clue as to which he is.

But while you put together the clues, don't be too available. The Love Avoidant will be content to just see you on the rare occasions where it works out. The overworked guy who really DOES want to see you will get a clue and make the effort to make firm dates in advance.

[25yearsmlc]

^^ yeeeeppp. I feel like every relationship I've ever been in results in me being the pursuer. It's like I don't want it because I want the other person to take initiative, but then I do it anyways, and then I get resentful, but then I can't help myself

K, you are not powerless. Unless you choose to be, which is not the same as actually being powerless. What is with the "can't help" yourself, knowing it's not a healthy or happiness producing behavior?

Are you seeing an IC?

and keep doing it, etc. One of my friends suggested "why don't you plan your life as if he doesn't exist? Like if you're debating to go do something or say yes to plans, think what would you do if he wasn't in the picture?" etc. I'm finding it super hard, I don't know if it's a people-pleasing thing or what.

Sounds like fear of being alone, and or a desire to replay some unhealthy dynamic in which you choose men who are not really available to you.

I say that b/c you say you are doing this in "every relationship" and you know it's not making you happy.

And this r is about 2 months old. I hope I'm not even noticing this stuff when I'm 2 months into a new r, b/c that is so fast to have expectations and to be having ANY r talk, imo.

Guess I just have the long view.

If you are as troubled by this as you sound, I'd see someone and explore it more.

((( )))

[Georgiabelle]

K-girl,

I love it when you post and 25 and kml have given stellar advice. There is one snippet of dating advice that has stuck with me since college. If you have to jump through hoops on the front end (unless you are a circus performer), then it's just-not-worth-it. You are only 2 months in and I got exhausted reading about his challenges. It's like you are trying to prove that you are worthy of his time. Nope. Nope. Nope.

However, I do understand that you struggle with being single. I realize you are young, but you probably have many friends that are married. I was in a couple from 20-41 (with different peeps). I get it. I do. And I truly sympathize with you feeling like an anomaly even though realistically you aren't. Your feelings are your feelings.

Live your life. If he wants to see you, he will make a genuine effort. And if he doesn't make the effort? I know it's a cr@ppy feeling, but you weren't ever going to be important enough.

I do think you need to dig a bit deeper as to why you feel the need to pursue. I have a friend who falls into that role with men who are not "that" interested and it leaves her feeling rejected and sad. What she doesn't realize is that their level of interest was apparent from the beginning. It's what suits their schedule/desires etc. I don't think that's what you want.

And yes, dating can be difficult. Don't be so quick to "jump in" and let things evolve. Sending you a hug!

[KGirl]

Hmm expectations....right, this is something I'm also struggling with. On the one hand, after two months it's maybe not realistic for him to include me in family functions, etc (but he has included me in stuff with his friends which is positive?) but I can't help but think things like "why can't he cut family weekend short to see me or invite me" or "why was I not invited to THAT friend thing" or "I want to see someone once on the weekend and once during the week" even though we are in touch every few hours, and would I really rather trade seeing someone three times a week for a text once a day?? compound that with friends who say "now is when you are supposed to want to see each other all the time, my husband and I were together every night when we were dating"... I am confused. I don't know if I'm needy or moving too fast or just totally inappropriately infatuated. it also does me no good to compare myself to friends who last dated right after college when they had lots of free time and few responsibilities.

I did go to IC a year ago. It was after my first break up and mostly I was told "you are normal, you just wanted different things, two relationships ending does not a pattern make" but perhaps the conversation would be different now.

[KGirl]

but anyways, yes, I think I need to stop jumping through hoops and see what happens. I don't need to play games and pretend to be busy when I'm not, but I don't need to bend over backwards. As scary as it feels, he'll either step up or he won't. or he'll just dump me next time we're together and I won't have to worry about it... right now I need to figure out how to address the immediate "so you said you felt like we should break up, do you mean that?" so I'm not living under that uncertainty.

[25yearsmlc]

but anyways, yes, I think I need to stop jumping through hoops and see what happens. I don't need to play games and pretend to be busy when I'm not, but I don't need to bend over backwards. As scary as it feels,


Wait K, what is so scary ^^here? What is it you fear?

What does this difficult r with a guy you cannot possibly know that well, mean to you down deep? I'm asking.

He's a guy you have known 2 months. It's not a m, he's not the father of your kids who is suddenly running away. it's not a 5 year investment on your end or his.

He is a guy who is either 1) not in a position for a real r now, and those take time, OR

2) he's just not that into it with you.

OUCH! I know that^^^ hurts - but those ^^ are the only options.

If it's #1, AND IF it changes, cross that bridge when you get to it.

I think it'll come way more naturally than you seem to believe. So GAL and detach and if he pursues enough, (not just a little, & not just sometimes) that is great.

If it's #2, then GAL and detach so you can more easily move along.

See how the course of action for you, is the same?

he'll either step up or he won't. or he'll just dump me next time we're together and I won't have to worry about it...

back off. A 2 month r that ends - is not him "dumping" you, it's one or both of you realizing you are not a good fit.

That is Not a flaw in you, it's not a horrible reflection on you.


right now I need to figure out how to address the immediate "so you said you felt like we should break up, do you mean that?" so I'm not living under that uncertainty.

If he wants out, let him go gracefully. Don't probe for details. Don't belabor the point or have a conversation of more than 5 minutes

I mean it. Prolonged break up talks this early on, mean someone is either being cold, or someone is being needy.

If he wants to "work" on the r, be casual and back way way off. Then go your way and let nature take its course.

If you have to "work on things" this early in the r, it's hard for me to see this as a good long term emotional investment.

It's not a shortcoming in you to realize maybe you are not ready for a serious r, or maybe your "partner picker" needs honing.

I'm just asking.

[Sotto]

Hi KGirl, I think you have already had some wise advice. Are you inappropriately infatuated, a bit needy, moving too fast? Possibly a little of all three? It is a very new R after all..

Any time we find ourselves thinking - I wish he would do X or Y - is a good time to completely and absolutely accept all current circumstances. All is as it is. He is at where he is at and doing what he is doing. Once we do this, we can look within and decide what we will do. I say this on the basis that we have 100% control over ourselves and about 0.01% over someone else.

In your case, I think you do sound somewhat over-invested in a new relationship. You have expectations and you are experiencing frustration too. Your pursuit comment resonated with me too - I also have pursuing tendencies, and I am learning to sit back and let things unfold more now - it's a work in progress for me!!

I think the best plan may be to gently shift some of that investment into other parts of your life and dial your investment in him down a little. Not that you need to accept things are going to end or anything, just to drop things in your mind to a less invested level and then behave accordingly. For now, invest some more energy in friends, family and other activities....then things will unfold in time for you both...

Best of luck with everything... :)xx

[KGirl]

OK, I'm trying to do this today. Yesterday morning I mentioned "wanna get together Thursday or Friday?" and he said sure, sounds good. I am trying really hard to NOT text to ask "so, did you want to get together tonight.. or tomorrow..?" This is difficult for me because as a planner I don't like waiting until the day-of to know what I'm going to do after work (do I need to clean up, did I wear the right underwear!, what's going to happen for dinner, etc.) But I guess there's nothing bad with rolling with it and saying if he brings it up "yeah, tonight still works but I need an hour to pick up my dirty clothes and stuff." I am also trying really hard to not initiate messages and just respond to him instead. It's making me very anxious. For example, he sent me this picture of a thing he is looking for and it's clearly at someone else's house. I said "well did you ask whoever it is where it's from?" He said "yeah they said it's from etc..." and my brain immediately goes to "wait, why 'they'? where were you? are you at some girl's house? why the vagueness?" Clearly I'm having some issues...

[25yearsmlc]

OK, I'm trying to do this today. Yesterday morning I mentioned "wanna get together Thursday or Friday?" and he said sure, sounds good. I am trying really hard to NOT text to ask "so, did you want to get together tonight.. or tomorrow..?"

you have already initiated ^^^this, so it's not your job to clarify or ask again. Did you give him 2 nights as options b/c you assumed it would be harder for him to say he's busy?

PLEASE Stop the pursuit. Let him come to you. Treat him like a squirrel, no sudden moves and not so darn much chasing. Chasing is not working for you.

When something does not serve you, including behaviors, exchange it for something that does serve you.



This is difficult for me because as a planner I don't like waiting until the day-of to know what I'm going to do after work (do I need to clean up, did I wear the right underwear!, what's going to happen for dinner, etc.)

Make plans for yourself b/c you are a planner. Then if he asks you out, you can invite him to join you. Either way - you have plans.


But I guess there's nothing bad with rolling with it and saying if he brings it up "yeah, tonight still works but I need an hour to pick up my dirty clothes and stuff."

why would that^^ be bad? Also he does not owe you a reason for joining late, or not joining at all. You are not in an established r wherein explanations are required.

You just started dating 2 months ago. Are you even exclusive with each other?

(Do Not ask him, if you don't know the answer. I'm just asking you so I can understand your view of this r. Frankly I don't understand the demands you are putting on him.)



I am also trying really hard to not initiate messages and just respond to him instead. It's making me very anxious.


this^^^ is what I'd ask your IC about. And the fears you mention in this thread. Dig deep and figure out why you are frantically trying to manipulate this guy and placing so much value on HIS reaction to YOU.

HIS reaction is not a reflection on you. He is not the measuring tool by which your value is determined.

For example, he sent me this picture of a thing he is looking for and it's clearly at someone else's house. I said "well did you ask whoever it is where it's from?" He said "yeah they said it's from etc..." and my brain immediately goes to "wait, why 'they'? where were you? are you at some girl's house? why the vagueness?" Clearly I'm having some issues...

I don't think He owes you any details or explanations. He sent you a picture of something he's looking for. So If you see or find that object, let him know.
Otherwise you are sounding like an insecure, jealous, possessive soon to be ex girlfriend.

Nothing else from this^^^ exchange is really your business. (((Calm down KG.)))

you are chasing him away and even though you seem to know this, you do it anyhow.

That's something to look at, isn't it? Cheeseless tunnels big time.


One thing about dating now, as opposed to when I was very young, is that I'm now okay politely saying "No thank you", when invited to something I do not want to do or by a person I do not wish to date.

"I have plans", etc. Whereas in high school, I always felt obligated to give a huge "more important" reason for simply declining an invite. Looking back, I see a sense of entitlement in a lot of men back then, b/c they'd wait for you to explain WHY you did not wish to date their wonderful selves.

I wasted a lot of time caving in to going on 1st dates just to be able to say "we don't have much in common" afterwards.

I could have just saved them money and both of us time by saying, "Oh, that's very nice of you, but no thank you." NO explaining "that weekend is bad for me" so they can return the next weekend to check again.

Let this guy have his freedom. It belongs to him. He's not obligated to anything but courtesy.

When you realize he does not owe you and you do not owe him,

maybe you can enjoy each others' company.