The words are where they need to be but words are easy. Actions are all that matters. You can tell her that. There's no time limit to fixing this. You two need to map out the path back together. It can't include you being the marriage police. She's right in that you have to put on the table to work all the issues before the A. The A is the big enchilada but there were many things going on that led that way. The A is ZERO percent your fault but those pre-A issues are at least 50% your fault. You guys have to include working on those things as part of your path back to happiness with each other.
You two fell in love once. Were very attracted to each other, probably couldn't keep your hands off each other. Remember the things that first attracted you to each other.
It's ok to acknowledge that she's "saying" all the right things but follow that up with that she has to "show" you that she's all-in. Actions are literally all that matter at this point.
Yes, I am fine. I have my faith and always will and that will always keep me from doing anything "drastic."
Confronting the OM just turned out to be a bad, bad idea. It turned ugly, though not violent, and brought back to the surface a whole lot of hard/bad feelings for both me and my W. Most tears I've seen from her in a while, and most "horrible" and empty I have felt probably since the original BD back in January. Had to listen to OM yell at me "your M is OVER and its YOUR FAULT" and relate back to me some of my own MR history, which I had to have figured that W had shared with him but, still... REALLY hurts to hear it coming from there. Also, a lot of lies and not an ounce of remorse. Really "voice of the Enemy" kind of stuff. Just wrong. Evil, even. It just hurt me to my core to have to even process it. And W is still worried about additional "hurt" being caused to OM. It was just... bad. And honestly probably counter to what I should have been doing from a DB-ing standpoint. My coach has told me to think about WON something I am doing is likely to help or hurt my MR, and that, in retrospect, was almost certain to hurt it. Not even sure that, on balance, it helped me that much, though I certainly feel on some level more strong and empowered from doing so... but definitely at a cost otherwise.
She says she understands that I "need time to process all of this" (meaning her betrayal of the NC and her subsequent actions and statements that she has been trying to cut contact for weeks and now wants to "figure us out") but that she is getting "tired of the yo-yo." (Meaning she is getting tired of the highs and lows and emotional turmoil)
We talked on the phone yesterday, and at the lowest point of the convo I had mentioned that I wanted to move forward but that it was hard when I keep getting hit by 2x4s like the discovery, mostly inadvertent, that OM had in fact been at the beach with her over the fourth, and that that is why we needed to be completely open and honest with each other to prevent that kind of thing from happening. Even though that was during the period I already knew (from the revelations of two weekends ago) that she had been breaking the NC, I did not know that she had seen OM at the beach (and I still don't know for sure, because she said yesterday "I don't have anything to say about that" and "you should ask [bff] about that"]. That is a particularly sore point for me because it followed on a very nice family vacation that WE had had at the beach, and I had voiced my opposition to her going a week prior, and then she had copped an attitude the day she came back when I got upset that she was going to have lunch with bff (the "controlling" angle). Sooo... I feel like her response, given the circumstances, is unacceptable. There has to be some sort of at least acknowledgment on her part, IMO, if we are really trying to move forward. But... I didn't push it yesterday because I could feel myself getting angry, the convo had already bottomed out, and I could feel it heading for a really bad place. As it was, she ended by saying maybe she "needed time away", that it was good that I was going camping with S18 this weekend, and that maybe she should just "be on her own"..."maybe rent a room from bff" (which would be a spectacularly bad move and one I would not let her come back from-- you need to understand the history with bff, here.)
At any rate, she had dinner and movie with bff last night (she checked in constantly so I knew where she was-- and she has turned on her phone tracker), and I let her... but we had argued about it a bit earlier when I had indicated we needed to come to some sort of arrangement or agreement or something WRT her activities with bff, ESPECIALLY given what I had been hit over the head with about the beach, which is what led to her "I have nothing to say" comment. She then said "Im just not going to go.. I don't feel like it now, maybe go for a walk" (real martyrdom stuff) and then we hung up. She called me back about 10 minutes later to say she was sorry. We talked, I was much more lighthearted and level-headed, said she could go and that I would be going out too. We talked a little when we both got back, but she said she wanted to just "not think about it for a few hours because it had been so constant the last few days" but that she also "wasn't sure" what she wanted to do about "figuring us out", which is a change from what she was saying last week after the blow up.
It has been a really hard couple of days. In some ways I see parallels to Coconut's sitch where he had real trouble getting over the A and letting go of it. Who knows if his W and/or my W was/is really interested in working on things? Maybe they were but our inability to let go of it was too much of an impediment. Of course its also possible that in both cases it was all kabuki on their part and they had no intention of cutting contact or ending the A under any circumstances. Guess there is no way to know.
I DO know that if she moves out and moves in with bff that the relationship with Om will be rekindled-- bff and OM are apparently pretty close friends, now, at least to hear OM tell it, and hang out on a fairly regular basis. I am going to give her a couple more days, on the idea that she is still, assuming NC is holding, only 10 days from ground zero/last contact and still definitely mourning the loss of the OM/A, and that the pulling off of the scab by my confrontation of OM is still too fresh, but...
Before I go off with S18, I am going to tell her that if she truly wants to work on things, like she said she did a few days ago, that I think I can do that, but I will need few things from her: 1) Continued strict NC-- any more, of any sort, and we are done, for good.. I would want her to move out and I would file for D. 2) Proof her second phone was destroyed-- she said she would get me this but I didn't push it on her yesterday the first day her bff was back in town because things were already getting ugly convo-wise 3) Continued transparency (phone and location, which she is currently doing) 4) Some level of professional help-- presumably our previous/current MC 5) We talk at length about her bff and how we work around that relationship-- and this is a biggie because with bff and OM being so close, I am not certain that that relationship can continue if we are to restore our MR, and I do not have any confidence that she would ever give up that relationship with bff. She wants to go see bff out of twon this weekend with another gf, even, and I am not even going to sit still for that unless she talks about or acknowledges the beach incident. To me, that is the height of disrespect, to behave as if there is no overhang from that relationship and that she can just go right off again to another out of town meeting without even discussing it. (thinking I should establish that as a boundary, too-- that I will not be treated with disrespect).
But all of this is sort of last ditch and, honestly, at this point, kind of half-hearted. Just don't know if I want to stay on this roller coaster. It would be so, so, so much easier if I could hate her, but I just can't. And it hurts too much to have her around. In some ways its like losing her over and over and over again.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
This "friend" of hers is not a friend of the marriage and that relationship has to be ended. That is a toxic friend and will sabotage your reconciliation. You can't demand she cut that tie but you have to point out how her relationship with that "friend" has almost ruined her life. A good therapist can help with this. The decision to cut her out has to come from your wife. With the proper guidance, it will.
your rushing this. our stories are similar because I rushed it, I tried to piece before the wayward mindset was gone. I've told you this before, and I'm going to say it again, time/space is needed. Space for you to level out and GAL (I don't mean GAL like do things, I mean GAL where you are comfortable in your life and it doesn't matter if she stays or goes).
Your WW is bouncing back and forth because she doesn't know what she wants, she hasn't decided she wants you, and you laying down "rules" isn't going to help her decide she wants a life with you. And right now your only goal is to get her back, when your goal should be happy no matter what, you only have your eyes on her as the prize and that can work out very badly for you.
I realize your not going to move out, but you need to not be focused on your W and what she's doing, you need to be filling your life with family and friends and find your happiness. I haven't read anything that says to me that your WW has hit rock bottom, realized how f'd up everything she's done is, and wants nothing more than to be with you. Until she feels that way, everything else is on shaky ground, like a house of cards.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Well done not getting into a physical altercation with the OM. Pat yourself on the back for having the sort of control over yourself and your actions that both he and your W lack.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Hey there, hope you don't mind a spectator entering into the ring. Please stop having conversations about "what you need to work on the MR." You've stated on no uncertain terms what you need and she has stepped all over them. Detach. Stop the location tracker, stop discussing anything outside of the children and logistics of paying bills and house care. She is not expressing any remorse, she sounds regretful that she screwed up her nice little posh life and has to deal with the consequences but not for hurting (and continuing to hurt) you. Her tears are that of guilt and selfish regret but not remorse. DBing is all about doing what works and tossing the rest.
Going over your most recent posts I was struck by how healthy you sounded when you detached. You stopped talking with your WW about your relationship, stopped asking her to do this or that. You stopped pursuing, you were mysterious and perhaps a little bit sexy and strong. Go back to that and try to do that again. Now is the time to fake it until you make it. I am speaking from experience. How I wish I could turn back time to Dday #1 and be the kind of person you were being when you detached. I think my pain would not have been so prolonged and I would not still be struggling with my choices.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
Oh, and you did not destroy your marriage, your wife did when she stepped outside of it. Screaming and threatening the man who pissed all over your marriage is not unexpected or even wrong in my opinion.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
Okay, so, sorta sidebar here: What are some of the GAL activities that any of the LBS's on here have found particularly therapeutic and helpful in terms of boosting sense of self and helping with detachment from the MR trainwreck? Fitness has been a big one with me. Hanging out with friends, when I can, is another but my number of "local" friends is somewhat limited. Canoeing/kayaking/fishing is something I really enjoy.
What have some others here found particularly good?
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Jim, I've been going on about this in lcause's thread, but I highly recommend skydiving!
Riding in a glider (the engine-less plane pulled by another plane and then let go) is also awesome!
Another one I like is going out to eat by myself. This may not be for everyone, but it helps me realize I'll be fine by myself, and I don't need anyone to feel comfortable in my own skin.
I do work out, but for me it feels kind of mindless. It helps me physically, but doesn't give me the mental boost that some people seem to get.
Someone else on here has done flotation therapy in a isolation tank, and that's something I'm thinking about doing.
For me, the point of GAL is not so much to "seem interesting" to the WAS, but to find the things I really enjoy and do them.
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
