Here again part 12

[25yearsmlc]

T3

you got some sensible legal advice today. Today.

Please take the advice, and do not blurt out things that are so Not helpful to you.

Drink a cup of STFU and relax. Yes your h is lying, again. Yes he is being selfish, again.

Yes he is cheating, again. And leaving you to pick up the pieces, which you are doing quite well.

Don't worry about what your parents are saying and for the life of me, I have no idea what option your mother thinks you have here.

Being nicer to him will....do what exactly?? You were buying a house and having a 3rd child and he pulled this crap.

It's NOT about you.

Please do as Own suggested and take a breath.

You need say nothing to your h, now.

Keep the texts and stop spinning and again, take a breath.

[cadence]

You've got great advice, T.

As for the finality aspect regarding your filing for D, you know better. How do you explain when folks who get divorced get remarried? How do you explain people who pull the divorce before it's final to try to make it work?

You're taking a big step of standing up for yourself and how you deserve to be treated and I'm proud of you for that. I understand why it might feel scary, when your focus for so long has been keeping H happy with you.

I'm, again, not understanding why you feel like you need to tell him that you "know" and that you're "not dumb." Honestly, what is that about? Dig deep and ask yourself what you think you're accomplishing, because I don't think we're following.

Do you think that you can control someone's actions with words? Do you think any WH is going to say "Oh no, she knows what I'm doing. Obviously she thinks I'm dishonorable and that this isn't sensible. You know what? She's right." That reliably happens zero percent of the time.

Your H wants justification that he's doing the right thing. You don't see it, but your drive to prove something to him just gives him ammunition to justify what he's doing. Nope, you're calm, cool, and collected T. Let your limited words and limited actions show him that you're slipping away out of his control.

T, he's gone and what you say doesn't matter to him like it once did. You want to control him more now, but your words have less power. You accomplish nothing letting your WH know that you "know", other than giving him the negative attention he wants from you. So, instead, let your actions speak for you. He'll pay attention to those.

Great job with the L. I thought you could file for support/visitation separately from D, but if D is what you feel you need to pursue, go for it.

Your parents seem like lovely people, but I have to say that what you tell us they say to you frustrates me, somewhat. Here they are, sitting like the devil and the angel on your shoulders, whispering things that are not helping their anxious daughter's struggles. One gives you dire warnings, and the other wants you to be "nicer" to H, and no one is looking at what this actually does to T.

I really wish they'd stop airing their opinions of what it all "means" and just start supporting and validating you, because that's what you need. You don't need more speculation about H and what he's thinking and what it all "means". Those play upon your fears and anxieties and I don't think it's productive.

No one is annoyed with you, T. This was a hard day for you. We come back to your threads because we care and we know you need some guidance. Don't confuse constructive criticism with criticism; I haven't seen a single person post to you that wasn't coming from a caring place.

There is something about you that draws us to you, T. You're a courageous, vulnerable, and lovable person. Please start believing those things about yourself. You've got this.

P.S. I don't understand why he's texting you about the dates he's out of town a month from now. I see it as pursuit on his part. I don't say that to get your hopes up, but I don't get why he needed to text you that a month in advance. It seems odd. I might understand it if he was trying to schedule a trip for the boys (as you also expected), but that wasn't it.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi everyone,

thanks for reaching out at the advice. Wounded - my mom ordered a new lock set but I am waiting to do this per legal advice.

I saw a L today, going to file for D. paid a partial retainer just to get it filed and get the emergency support court dates set. I told her to give me a few days to finish the semester, spend some time with the kids before I go back to work next week, and next week I will get her all the information, that my heart needs to catch up with my brain and absorb everything.

please DO get her the paperwork. It has been a source of procrastination on my part that costs me more money actually. And it's obviously an example of me not getting my $hit together fast enough. It's pretty empowering once you know there's no homework hanging over your head.


She wants me to file, have him served, and not tell him it's coming. So that's my plan.
She said i should have a conversation with him that is light and does not make him think I have retained legal advice.

This^^^ is the plan. **Do not divert yourself (which is what the spinning is, a diversion and a sapper of your energy, and a self inflicted increase in your heart ache).


Something along the lines of H, this isn't working for either of us right now and I think it would be best for everyone if you were found your own living arrangements. I would like you out by next Friday, I will be changing the locks at that point.

I will be getting more money based on figures than he is paying now.

so can you see that the fear you had of him paying LESS, was not warranted and thus, there may be other fears you have that are equally unwarranted.

Just a gentle "hey, teaching point here"...


She is very matter of fact and no BS... and she said H is obviously going to come out ahead because he makes a lot more money than he did coming into the relationship but that she knows I will be good in the long run.

well, to be clear, he makes more money than you, and in that sense he "comes out ahead" financially. But the marriage is where his income increased - so he did not bring it into the marriage, he grew it inside the m. So some of it will be coming to you for X number of years.

You being "good in the long run" is what matters now. Really it's all that matters.

If he wins the lottery 3 years from now, that will not take food off your table. If he has a flat tire, your car won't increase in value. His "misery/happiness index" is not connected to yours.

He is going to be irrelevant.



I was doing good today until I got a text from H and I realize I am not detached enough.

T3, no you are not detached. To me, this is a conversation in which you give him all the power. I don't get it.


H; I am going to my parents Wed Aug 24 to Mon Aug 29.
M: Are you taking the boys?

**(T3, how about "h, are you ASKING me if you can take the boys?" -and if this is out of state, he will always need to ask you, btw).

H: No, they have school
H: I was planning on going by myself this time and I will take them the following month up there for my bday weekend


First, if he's not taking them, why even inform you of this trip? Who cares?

Second your h certainly has a sense of entitlement. IF I were still married and together with h, I would have checked with him about this^^. Not "announce" his trip next month taking the boys out of school and wherever.... Set some boundaries with this guy (AFTER you file).

M: Ok, it is okay if they miss school if they want to go.
H: Well now I'm not even sure if I'm going to go, plus I don't have a lot of money so I may not go and since I don't have a lot of money I won't be doing anything fun.


OMG what a whining baby man/boy, He realizes during the conversation that it's not consistent with his "I'm too poor to pay much" narrative. Oops.

I didn't reply.
I know what he's doing.

I can feel your pain accelerating now. It Does NOT matter what he's doing if it's not involving the boys. Seriously, ALL the stuff below that I crossed through, is you spinning and going down the rabbit hole with no happy exit. There's no tunnel to joy in this exercise of yours and it's totally self inflicted at this point.


He bought concert tickets for a big country star (Who we see EVERY year for our anniversary together) and going for the concert. He is not going to stay with his parents. I wanted to SCREAM. I am SO SO SO sick of this. I am sick of feeling like this. That he is just free as a bird to go sleep with and engage in relationships with whomeever he wants while I'm left to pick up the pieces of our life and care for our children.

I really don't know anymore. I feel so so lost. I feel back at square one and I know it's just an overwhelming day with lack of sleep from last night, feeling like I screwed last night up,

Screwed up what last night ?? You mean how you told him you are "not stupid"? Let that go. Truly, let it go.

No one said you failed or screwed it up. We said you were making it worse for YOU.
Let it go, and get some sleep. That's probably the best way for your parents to help you at the moment. Care for the kids so you can nap.

I barely recall the first 6 months of each child's life b/c I was too exhausted to think or remember.


My heart and brain are fighting each other. I feel like this is it, once I file he's gone forever and I am eliminating all chances of him coming back.


Stop this^^^thinking. You just said he gets to go wherever he wants and leaves you to pick up the pieces and raise the boys alone. That is what is happening now.

Filing Is the only chance you have of him coming back. I swear I believe that. It's not why I think you should file, it's simply a possible benefit. This is not about punishing him. it is about saving yourself and your sons and MAYBE getting him to see a consequence of his choices.

He is eating so much cake right now, and seems he likes it! The only course of action you have to save your marriage is also the safe course of action for your sons and yourself!

IN that respect, your situation is CLEAR...there are no "better choices". As it is now, the situation is making you insane AND He's not improving or waking up. It's just the opposite.

Are you really wondering if you could just BE MORE LOVING, then he'd wake up?

Is that ^^ your question? Now that you see it in writing, what do you think?


And yes yes yes, I know he *IS* gone and I know filing is a piece of paper. But like my family has said me ignoring him and leaving him alone has allowed him to act even more crazy.

you have not "ignored" him for more than a few days and like I said, he pulled this crap when things were good and building to a 3rd child. This is SO not about you.

Your h has an established pattern.

Second, please stop taking polls with your family and just put your hand up when they comment in ways that are all about mind reading of your h.

Tell them you are doing the best you can and Drop it.


He hasn't once gone to another woman's house until lately, and then coming and going with no communcation. Also no texting me asking about dinner or that he's on his way here. I mean it's worse and worse each week more and more distance.



Stop pretending you can control any of what he does. That is key - dropping the rope.

You are continuing to try and decode this and to plan YOUR reactions to him. UGH

He's doing exactly what he did last time, vacations, concerts all with his new GF... I mean there apparently is many more than 1. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around that this is what he wants.


I will post this quote to you often, I guess.

"ENDLESS WONDERING IS ENDLESS SUFFERING." - Caroline Myss

Jack3beans was a veteran poster here, (a great man btw, RIP) used to say


**I hope the LBS realizes that many of the 'why' questions they absolutely think they have to have an answer too...they really do not. Everyone dies with unanswered questions, but that doesn't prevent us from living. Why should these.

In many cases the MLC answers are NOT good enough for the LBS anyway, so they keep digging, and damage any repairs that have been made.

Stop asking.


I just want to know there is hope he is going to change his mind.

the problem here^^^ is 2 fold. Obviously we cannot know, though most of us probably feel he will regret his choices. I do believe that.

But the second bigger problem is what YOU would do with his regrets, assuming he informed you of them.

For him to do this a second time means he never really wrapped HIS brain around the pain he inflicted on you or your older, aware, son.

So he's unlikely to grasp the magnitude of said pain.

Hurting the people who love you the most is just a terrible thing to do, let alone twice.

I Still, I struggled with the same question and the gross injustice of it all. The exponentially higher income my MD h earns, the pristine resume he has which I enabled him to get

while my resume has gaping holes in it - in which I was a SAHM instead of a law firm partner.
Now my career is starting over...

So I understand your pain. It is not fair. That is just true.

My concern for you is that even if we somehow "knew" your h would want back into the m in a year, or a week or a month, AND behaved consistently with that want,

etc.

is how you could still end up where I am. 10 years post "reconciliation" and then, being here again.

Now I'm 57 and my career issues are numbing, my dating prospects are a lot fewer and not as appealing to me as they were a decade ago.

-

I wish you all could meet with me IRL and shake some sense into me.

So please don't get frustrated with me. I am having a really bad day. I am emotionally and physically exhausted. THe L today said she has no idea how I'm doing this all

you have deep wells of resilience which are inspiring. Seriously. Truly.
\


and she told me there is a special place for people like my H. Good news is she said it won't take 90-120 days. She said we will have a court date within 30 days. She said she will offer him to continue to pay what he is paying or we can go in front of a judge and he risk paying more.

Very good!

So tonight should I have this conversation with him? Should I ask to meet somewhere outside of the home?

***DING DING Whoah NO. You have a plan - and it's not about talking tonight. PLUS you are not in emotional shape for this talk.


I think tonight it may seem like I am having the conversation out of retaliation of him going to visit his family and not taking the kids. I can wait until tomorrow night depending what you guys think is best.

What's the rush given that you are filing soon? The L said to tell him in advance but why tonight or tomorrow?

Geez, T3, do you ever play poker? Time to keep your cards to yourself. It won't be long.

And just say, like cadence said,

H, you have left and made it clear you do not want to be married anymore. It's time we set a schedule for childcare. I am not comfortable with I don't want you sleeping on the couch especially coming in late at night. I hope that you will

You need to find a suitable environment to take the boys to. Until you do, you can have the boys every other weekend and can return them here to sleep at night.

Question is, Do I go ahead and drop the bomb of everything I know or wait til a later time? I struggle with needing to tell him I know about this concert and that it's the exact same behavior as last time.


You struggle b/c you feel duped. Silence says a lot on it's own and you'll never regret it.

Plus the cat will be out of the bag soon enough.

Your need for "showing him" how smart you are is not a good reason to undermine potential legal arguments later.

I am so sick of my dad telling me that I need to stop acting like there's a chance he's coming back. That he was never coming back since I found out about the flowers.

It is so discouraging to hear and really hurts me that nobody in my life has hope that he will snap out of this.

People who tell you this^^ are well meaning. Remember that. If needed, tell them you are not ready to hear their opinions.

I learned a few months ago that h posted on FB that OW was the "love of his life."

let ^^^that sink in....

thank God my family did not tell me when he posted that b/c I might have gone nuts. At least I know i've never once blasted him publicly OR to his face or by text. No fb stalking.

H can fume all he wants and blame shift all he wants (and will, I assume). But to those who know both of us, I THINK his words ring hollow.

my sister said not a single mutual friend commented or liked his pics of OW and him "introducing the "new honey' to his family". His family did not mean our children btw.

There's been no contact between our children and h for nearly 7 months when he introduced" her. IOW the fb posts are not reflections of the truth.

And even if they were, I just cannot care b/c it hurts too much and seems so crazy, that has jettisoned my detachment efforts forward.

Can you let that work for you?



I just don't want to do this anymore. I want to climb in a hole and hide. I don't know why I deserve this again.

who said you "deserve" this? Um, no one. $h1tty things happen to a lot of people. My "takes care of her health" friend has multiple myeloma & lost her well paying job the same month.

Another dear friend lost her 22 y/o son to undiagnosed cardiac myopathy. He was a baseball player on his way to an interview, who collapsed in the parking lot at college.

Did he deserve it? Did my friend? Of course not. You were not chosen by God to suffer injustice.

You may be given more inner peace, strength and guidance if you are open to it, but this dishonesty from your h is NOT an indictment of you.

Your h is not the hero and you are not the villain.

Thanks to everyone for listening, I know it's rough to read the same garbage.

at some point you will get tired of feeling the same garbage. I do hope you re-read the posts people write to you.

Because there is comfort to be found there. You are not alone.

[Train]

T,

WAY TO GO, getting legal advice. And now that you have legal advice and you're filing, please ignore my previous post. That was me saying: IF you're going to go off on him again, just lay all the cards on the table.

No sense in getting into that with him now that you're filing. I agree with the others.

Big step today. I'll write more later, but I'm sending you hugs. I know you're overwhelmed and this isn't easy.

[Train]

And PS heck to the no. Today ain't the day to have that talk with H that L told you to have.

Please get some rest tonight.

Tomorrow is a new day. You will feel a bit better.

[T384]

Thank you all for your kind words. I want you to know I'm here reading them several times. I appreciate all of your support with me so much and it means the world to me. This place is my saving grace and unfortunately I rely on you all to guide me in my actions and decisions in this situation because my friends and family are biased and don't really know the right thing to do.

So I just wanted all of you to know I appreciate you.

I will address the posts tomorrow when I'm a little more level headed.

Had a quiet night tonight. I picked up a friend of the boys on the way home from the L and surprised them with that. Got some homework done and just hung out. H got here tonight doesn't talk to me as normal but came outside to talk with me and the friends dad when he got here. We came in I made a comment to H about how the cats enjoy sleeping on this new box in the garage and laughed. He jus tshrugged his shoulders and was obviously in a bad mood so I walked away. That's the first time I've said anything to him in days. H then told me he had no money to pay the electric bill and was going to have to scrounge up the cash. I thanked him for installing the new dryer and went about my business.

I know tonight wasn't the night to have the conversation so I didn't.

L advised me to tell him asap to move out though and give him until next Friday to be out.

[T384]

Oh and before I forget.... I can't file for support without filing D....


I'm not detached enough to want D. Divorce is NOT what I want but it's what I have to do to get an order for support.

Do you all feel this is the best choice for me to file even though it's not what I want? I know it's what H wants right now and I guess it would be releasing the rope but I would solely be filing because I need $$

[Train]

You're doing the right - and only - thing.

[BluWave]

Yes, I think we are all in agreement in your sitch it is time to file. Right now you need financial support you can rely on, you need a safe space (without him coming and going as he pleases, that is crazy), and you and the children need a clear and organized custody schedule. Your stability and your sanity need this right now. You are not pushing him away (he is gone and told you this is what he wants) and if anything you are empowering yourself here so you can start to create healthy boundaries and detach.

The future can always change and you know that. You are so afraid to let go--as if you have another option--when really it serves you in two ways. Not only do you allow yourself detachment, but you also do increase the chance he will pull his head our of his arse and start thinking wiser. ... I hate to say this, but I imagine at some point (maybe a long while) he will realize what he is losing and come back. And (hate to say this even more) I hope you are moved on by then. You deserve much better than the abuse, neglect, and adulterous chaos this man has put you and these kids through for so long. I would guess that strong and confident T would agree.

I believe there are plenty of good men out there that would be honored to be a part of your's life and your children's lives some day.

You are doing great tho--we are proud of you!!!
Blu

[OwnIt]

T,

As adults we know that we don't always get to make decisions based on what we want. I think if that were the case, none of us would be here.

I'm very concerned that a guy who buys boats, motorcycles, goes to more concerts in a month than I've been to in my life can't pay an electric bill. That would be sending shock waves through me.

You've said he's paying you less than you are entitled to. You like your lawyer. When we hire a professional, one of the things we do often is to defer to their opinion and their advice. Now that you have a lawyer you like, you have to decide if you are willing to do that.

I think you want your H to wake up, if he's going to, and feel the consequences of the actions he took. Of the stories on this board of men who came back I think Train and Blu are most telling. They are both tough love ladies. I believe from reading their posts that both of their Hs knew, without a doubt, that those fine ladies were moving on.

I've read a lot of Sandi's stuff. Sandi is also a tough lover. She talks a lot about the loss of respect these folks feel for their partner.

I don't see any respect at all in the way your H treats you. I don't see that you have demanded any respect for yourself. I would be curious to see if that would change your situation. Even if it did not, I have observed that the people who take control of the situation and guide the course of their actions tend to be happier with their situations than those of us who sit nicely by, biding our time, paving the way home, being the lighthouse, letting them eat cake, and standing.

I am going to say this for your benefit (and 25s who I am sure is going to see this), I wish that I had done things differently. I wish I had filed for divorce in 2011 when I learned about the emotional affair. I wished I had filed for divorce in 2013 when I got ILYBINILWU. I wish I had filed for divorce in 2015 when I learned about his online profiles. And I sure as H8ll wish I had filed for divorce in January 2016 when I learned about his PA. I am a super strong, independent, financially-secure, hardass who litigates for a living. I lost all my self-respect and his respect.

Now as it turns out my L is telling me not to file for D now, but my circumstance is quite a bit different with my H's narcissism, high income, and history of providing well for me and the kids. What she has drilled into my head is to stop being afraid. To stop waiting for him to agree. To stop waiting for him to be ready. And to start taking decisive action, including moving far away without telling him first.

T the only thing worse than losing your marriage is losing your self respect. The good thing is, you can get it back. Will your H turn around? Who knows. But I've seen you describe him as weak and easily influenced by others. Not attractive. I've seen you refer to his incessant lies. Not attractive. I've seen you describe his laziness. Not attractive.

Seems to me like a guy with a good income who spends every penny he has and couldn't make a sound financial decision to save his life. Seems like a guy who runs off every time life isn't fun because of, you know, stuff like responsibility.

You are this amazingly compassionate, intelligent, driven, successful woman who can do more in a day than I do in a week. Man I wish I had your energy and your drive. Why in god's name would you want to be with this loser?

Is it history? Here's the thing about history, it tends to repeat itself barring dramatic change. Has this guy changed? Doesn't sound like it. Is he seeking out the help he needs? Doesn't sound like it. Is he planning out his new and happier life? I don't think so.

My daughter, then 16, came to me and said mom I've lost respect for you for allowing this man to treat you like this. Do not do this on my behalf and do not do this on my brother's behalf. I did not kick him to the curb until this girl said please make him leave. He is making our lives miserable. Please don't make your sons come to you some day and tell you something like that.

If there is a man of character and/or substance in there somewhere, he will find his way out of this and do the right thing. If there isn't, he will keep circling the drain.

Read the stories of the folks whose spouses didn't come back. Some of the posters I respect the most fall into that category. These people, some with kids and some without, rediscovered their self-respect, most are in relationships that they describe as superior and have so much insight into what went wrong, and why, and what they did and/or didn't do.

Divorce or no divorce, do you want to keep living the life you have or do you want something better for yourself and your kids? If you keep on the path you are you'll probably still be here years from now talking about separation 3, 4, 5, etc. because you'll take him back the first time he waivers or gets afraid. Or, you can be a Train or a Blu who owned their power and saved their marriages against all hope, or an Accuracy or Another Stander, a 25, a job, a Cadet, a kml, a peacetoday, etc., who found a different kind of life that brought them knowledge, peace, confidence, respect, etc. Only you can make these choices.