advice please

[CW2017]

Hi all thank you all for the kind advice.
Again I apologise for the lack of updates but it was getting to the stage where the limbo was eating me alive and my suspicion that they had arranged a hotel rendezvous was just the catalyst I needed to confront.
It turned out they didn't go though with it (for whatever reason).
To be honest I feel a different person since the "conversation" and my ceasing the snooping.
It is highly likely they are still interacting on a certain level (I'm not that naive).
However she goes to the MC on Saturday and after that we start the joint sessions.
I would rather everything came out there (we are with the biggest outfit in the UK, Relate, so I am presuming they will just facilitate us making our minds up rather than facilitating a divorce).
I will certainly know immediately if she is being sincere or not.
The only time she really got slightly aggressive during our conversation was when I said we need to consider any long term damage to our daughter (7 is such a crucial year and is quite often termed the "age of reason", so I don't buy into any theory that says they adapt to anything).
But if she is still in the fog maybe she doesn't realise what would happen to her family even though I have warned her already what I will do.

Promise I'll update ASAP!

[CW2017]

PS
does anybody have any strong opinions on how a WAW might use "bedroom activities" as a weapon during this "withdrawal from affair" period (if that is indeed the case)? I know Sandi's opinion on this sort of thing but, as this seems to be the year where my wife finally discovered s*x on a regular basis (her excuse: she's worried about the menopause and wants to make up for lost time, hmmm), I am not exactly going to say no, but at the same time I should never be caught off guard, in case it is some sort of diversion tactic?

[Cristy]

Hello CW2017,

Thanks for the update!

Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal. Healing from infidelity is achievable for both of you with the right support and tools.

I would hold off on using "bedroom activities" as a weapon, especially at this point. However there are things that could work and make a difference. I suggest you speak to a DB coach, as they are experts in looking at what has happened to bring you to this point in your relationship and what is the best way to interact with her, so that you are most likely to bring her closer and not push her any further away. Your coach's expertise will help you come up with a very specific plan (that may be counter intuitive to what you feel like saying and doing) on how to best turn things around. I wish you all the best and would be happy to discuss the coaching with you.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[CW2017]

Hi
first of all apologies for any confusion about my screen name. Thought I'd change it from the previous one as I think using all of my initials might not be a good idea (in case someone ever gets wind of this)!

Anyway the reason for the update is that my wife had her first individual MC session this morning (mine having been a couple of weeks back). Although the original plan had been to follow this up with 4 joint sessions, for some reason today's counsellor wants it now to be 2 joint and then revert back to one on ones. Does anyone think there may be a specific reason for this outside of differing techniques maybe being applied by MCs here in the UK (i.e. some factor that I am not aware of which has come out in their conversation, seeing as I stopped monitoring my wife weeks ago for sanity reasons!).

My wife certainly agreed earlier that the OM would definitely be the topic of conversation in the MC sessions (with a bit of her live-in Mom thrown into the mix). She also seemed a bit off in the sense that I said that her continuing in her job is going to be a major issue for me, at least in the medium to long term, although I reiterated that I would never apply any pressure for her to give it up but she knows my feelings now in no uncertain terms (guess only time will tell if this a tactical error; she knows of my boundary of non-sharing but at the same time I do not want to come across as controlling in any way).

I think she was being a bit circumspect because she knows I have trust issues now. I said that forgiveness and trust are two completely separate things and time would be needed for both. She once again said that she never expected this to happen (but of course it has, so now we have "the elephant in the room" for the MC sessions).

So what should be my general tactics for the joint sessions? As has been suggested in other recent threads I should certainly state that her continuing to work with OM is of deep concern and smacks of disrespect. Assuming she is not going to give up the job, hopefully the MC can point out all the issues that will stem from that decision. Are there any other "standard lines" I should throw into the joint sessions as well?

thank you again

[CW2017]

Hello all
just got in from a very nice Italian meal out with the W. Although I had arranged this earlier in the week, it had also been suggested by the counsellor at our first joint MC session this morning as the "date night". This has been our first quality time meal together since one week after BD at the beginning of January and we did sort of put the world to rights (we did go out for the day for her birthday on 03/17, but apart from that it has been essentially family time only, we had intended to eat out over the intervening months but something always got in the way, but this is of course "background noise" to the main proceedings).

The MC session was extremely illuminating. I kicked it off with comments and objectives by saying that what I have had to deal with this year has clearly been a symptom of a bigger problem, i.e. the symptom being my wife choosing to embark on an extramarital affair. I said although it would be naive for me to think that there are no further interactions occurring at my W's place of work (on whatever level) and that there are probably still strong emotions involved my aim is to address the main issues so as to prevent any repeat episodes in the future. My W stated why the affair happened, i.e. the OM was unhappy in his own MR and was forever praising her, etc, etc. but she genuinely wanted things in the MR to go back to how things were before the affair.

The structure will now be for two further individual sessions before coming together again for further joint sessions. My aim in my next (confidential) session will be to tell the counsellor that my gut feeling is that the affair is still going on due to the depth of feelings involved despite me having now confronted (due to my previous "snooping" establishing the depth of the affair), e.g. my W was searching for classical love poems last week, I do rather cynically find it hard to believe that she is planning a card for our 20th anniversary in one month's time), it is also the case that some items of provocative lingerie have been purchased recently (again I am dubious as to the reasons for this, despite her knowing we are staying at a top hotel for our 20th; the evening will be a big deal, although she has no idea how many people are coming, I did of course arrange all this at the beginning of the year).

We got through the joint themes of forgiveness and trust and I set out my stall based on what has been recommended on these boards to me previously and I hoped that both the MC and my W would understand why I would still have trust issues. There was then an intriguing round where around 20 graphics were presented to us and we had to pick 3 which best summed up our relationship during this time. Unsurprisingly we both went for the brick wall between us. What was illuminating was that my W said her wall had probably building up for 2 years or more (so Sandi's reasoning was bang on here). Naturally her live in mother came into the mix here but the MC said our improved communication this year (i.e. basically talking through our day at work etc.) has essentially made a hole in this wall but that we both have to realise that the reasons for this wall now are very complex (which makes me wonder exactly what my W told her last week in her solo session).

What really took my breath away was that her next graphic involved her being in jail and I was the jailor (she had called me this at one point in her cell messages to the OM). Seemingly whenever she wanted to do things on her own such as going out with friends she detected an attitude from me, which was news to me as I had previously pointed out to her that due to my father being an old fashioned hard guy (World War 2 etc.) I had decided from an early age to be the polar opposite to him personality wise (probably turning me into an apparent "nice guy" although I'm probably not, although not in the marital context!). Hence it was a real shock to discover I was perceived as being controlling. I detect some genuine insecurity that has only really come to light this year after almost 27 years together (I have always been aware of selfish behaviour and high maintenance issues but this aspect of her personality has come as a complete shock). Ironically the last graphic I chose was the one where I had her back no matter what so I hope that one hit home.

I really hope she is taking all of this seriously because the only alternative is now the obvious (D).

would appreciate your comments.

[Tread]

CW2017,

I wouldn't take the jail and jailor comment seriously. That isn't nothing but wayward talk. My W is walking around here acting like she was never alowed to go anywhere or do anything. I've never told her what she couldn't do. At most I may have advised her on some things for safety reasons, but never have I demanded or told her what to do. If anything I have been told over the years that I have given my W a little too much leeway. That might be the "nice guy" in me. Because like yourself my father ruled the home with an iron fist. And half the stuff my W does wouldn't have been condoned by him. Which he states is part of the reason why I'm having this MR issues now.

[CW2017]

Tread
many thanks for that. I actually admire that hard old generation, not least for what they did for their countries (which of course is the strongest aspect of the bond between the UK and the US, in fact my W's father would never talk about what he witnessed in the army back then but that is of course a whole other story).

Although my father is no longer around he would have stated as a fact that that our generation are probably too touchy feely, especially in affairs of the heart. But at the same time if my wife's plan is to run rings around the MC hopefully I can tease a few snippets out from the MC in my solo session next week. As I do not intend to check on messages I will play it purely on gut instinct from now on (which has been pretty spot on up unitl now).

[CW2017]

Hi all
been reading some abs powerful threads on here this week which I have found very empowering. I also had my semi-regular lunch with my wisest (and only confidant about this) cousin yesterday. She thinks I'm doing amazingly well and believe me she is going through her own hell with one of her S's who is at war with his wife (unfortunately he had the affair).

So tomorrow I face my first individual session with the MC who conducted our joint one last week. I will try and see what she thinks about detaching. Because I have been feeling stronger recently (haven't looked at any messages for a month now and don't feel a need to) I will say tomorrow that the A is likely to still be going on (at whatever level) as it is in the workplace and my wife won't give up her job. I will state this because I know the depth of feelings involved previously. But at the same time I will say that I have no intention of finding out for myself and that it will reveal itself eventually when she knows exactly what I will do, i.e. at the moment I am feeling fairly relaxed about the whole thing (a marked change from the previous 6 months).

It is on the record (in the confidential notes from my first session with a different counsellor) that I was checking messages previously so it will be interesting to see if the MC refers to this. I will likely also emphasise that my W's statement last week about me being "controlling" was way wide of the mark. This is because for years I have been trying to get her to become closer to some of the other school Mums (sic UK!). A lot of them socialise together, going out for drinks, etc. and I thought it would do her the world of good (hardly controlling, eh?). But I really think she cannot identify with women yet of course has always seeked solace it would appear in male company (likely stemming from her own childhood). So that has def been a constant source of frustration for me over the years as I would like to get friendly with the Dads as well who I barely know.

No doubt her mother will come into the mix tomorrow as well as she still exerts a large hold over her daughter (despite almost being 80), possibly another reason for "the rebellion". I guess the supreme irony here is that because of the testing dynamics of the domestic setup of 3 generations of women under one roof I should have been the one looking elsewhere!!

Hope everyone has a great weekend

[CW2017]

A good session with the MC this morning. However one thing did mystify me a bit. On the subject of sex she did ask me if I tended to initiate and I said it tended to be my W mainly because I never wanted it to appear that I was demanding it, so in that sense I was putting her feelings first. Also undoubtedly in the background was my feeling that she was not a highly sexed person (no sex before marriage and only once in a 2 week honeymoon). There have even been a couple of time periods where we have gone a year without. Therein lies one communication issue clearly as she would always shut down any conversation on the subject. In her defence I have not always been in the best of shape. So the supreme irony at the moment is that I am in fairly ripped shape now and we have had more sex during the A period than prob in the whole marriage (outside of attempting to conceive).

So I think the MC was trying to say that one of the reasons for the affair was that I wouldn't reinforce her sexuality and desirability through initiating sex. So I might have to hold my hands up for that one although she warned me that we would have to talk such things over in the next joint sessions for the counselling to work. Of course I had to admit there was a high chance she might have been thinking about the OM "during" but there's not much I can do about it. In a way I am glad she is finally getting something out of it for herself outside of pleasing me if that doesn't sound paradoxical.

Having said all this the most important question came at the end where I answered in the affirmative about whether I am prepared to divorce, I told the MC I at least have to appear I am going through with it.

[CW2017]

PS by way of clarification regarding the s*x life I should have added that if we do come through the other side of this mess at least we will have a healthier platform for that side of the relationship (didn't want to look too "forgiving" there)!