Finding my way in the dark

[OwnIt]

Because holding you will be showing her that actions have consequences and that you are able to move on with her or without her.

[Accuray]

Leaning in to what she wants removes her motivation to move away from you, it stabilizes the situation. If you show you're willing to accept that she wants to take separate vacations by planning your own, you're taking away an adversarial relationship.

[Holding]

Thanks for the replies, OwnIt and Acc! I'll start thinking about my own plans. I have plenty of time. I am wondering though if it'll seem like a tit-for-tat move. I probably shouldn't care.

Has anyone here ever had any luck with a religious experience helping the recon? Any WAS ever dabble back in religion, on their own, while going through things?

Not that I have all my eggs in one basket.

[doodler]

I probably shouldn't care.

Agreed, you shouldn't care. Well, at least you shouldn't care about tat.

With regard to the religious thing, I'm a very strict Pastafarian, which means I'm totally unqualified to answer your question.

[Holding]

Well, at least you shouldn't care about tat.

As always doodler, you do not disappoint!

[Accuray]

Regarding religion I wouldn't look for it to help. WAS are gifted at justifying what they want to do, and blind to anything contrary to what they want to do.

If it brings you comfort, then by all means go for it, but I wouldn't expect it to turn W around, and even if it did it would be a temporary fix based on shaming that I wouldn't expect to last.

Acc

[Holding]

Acc, what do you mean by shaming? I'm talking about the change coming from inside the WAS. So that would be more guilt than shaming. I can see how shaming wouldn't work, since it comes from the outside.

Just to be clear, as someone who hasn't believed in God in about 10 years and was basically an atheist, I have started to pray again out of desperation, while going down this path. I've seen 2 things that give me a small sliver of hope that maybe my wife is considering prayer (neither of us regularly attend church). I know, don't read the tea leaves.

Regardless, I'm doing LRT and GAL.

[Holding]

Is DB supposed to feel like a Mexican standoff? There are lots of awkward silences, living in the same house. Things are starting to feel like they did before BD. On the other hand, I haven't been temp checked in a week.

[Accuray]

When you talked about "religious experience" helping the recon, I assumed you meant enlisting a minister or priest to help speak to her on your behalf. I highly doubt she's going to have a religious ephiphany that will bring her back.

One of the things I did when I was in limbo was read all the marriage/relationship books I could get my hand on. One of them was excellent for the first half, but the second half was a very detailed and deliberate examination into how you could justify divorce within the context of the Bible. My point is that if someone has their heart on a particular course of action, they're going to find a way to justify it regardless of the morals they may otherwise believe in.

Regarding DB being a Mexican standoff, this whole situation is awkward and uncomfortable and DB just exists within it, versus causing it. If you were not DB'ing and were just pursuing away, that would be awkward and uncomfortable too.

Glad you haven't been temp checked -- your GAL and "Act as If" must be improving!

When she feels a lot of pressure from you, all she can think about is escaping the pressure and convincing you that her decision is final. Once you lift the pressure, she has space to think about what she's doing. The more space you give her, the better.

The WAS goes through a cycle of Resentment => Anger => Guilt => Resentment => Anger => Guilt

They stay in that cycle as long as you keep pursuing and/or making them responsible for your feelings, and while they're in that cycle they are completely incapable of seeing anything you do as good.

When you take pressure off, they can move on to: Doubt => Fear => Remorse => Resolve => Doubt => Fear => Remorse => Resolve

When they're in Doubt/Fear/Remorse they actually CAN see the changes you're making and what's different, but when they go into "Resolve" they basically recommit to their course of action.

If you start pursuing again during this delicate cycle they immediately go back into the Resentment/Anger/Guilt cycle and shut down.

That's what people mean when they say its like trying to hand feed a squirrel -- it's so easy to send them spiraling back.

Keep doing what you're doing!

Acc

[Holding]

Thanks, Acc! That's just what I needed.

OK, I need some advice on a text I'm getting from W. I'm meeting a friend after work at a local bar to hang out for a while. I texted W to say I'm going out after work, and she said she'd take care of dinner with the kids (which I usually do). Then she asked where I'm headed, and I said I'm not sure yet. She replies saying, "That's odd, I assume it's after work happy hour". Is there harm in saying what I'm actually doing?

Now she got upset that I didn't respond right away, and said, "Well ok then thanks for letting me know." Advice?