Here again part 9

[25yearsmlc]

what she said^^^^

and for the record, I have also been far slacker here with your h & situation b/c you were pregnant.

You got a sh1t sandwich, I know.

But IF - IF you can rebuild your m...you need to let THIS marriage go.

Your h wants out. You do not have the option of "making it work."


Enforce and live what your dad said or you'll lose whatever emotional leverage you may have.

[T384]

Do you both really think there's no hope?

This weekend I've already enforced the boundaries of no shared time. The main boundary is him still staying the night at the house. He's just using it as a hotel and isn't really spending time there. He doesn't come home from work til 8-9pm and usually sees the kids for 30 mins to an hour then goes on the couch watches TV and goes to bed. We don't talk. Is that okay if that's the situation and there's little to no interaction and he's paying the bills? If I push him to go more he will push to get his own place and won't pay for everything as he is... I cannot afford for him to not pay so that's where my concern comes from.

Just wondering if I let the staying over go if I just don't make myself available to him or partake in family time.

[25yearsmlc]

Do you both really think there's no hope?

I think the only way your h will wake up and really truly deeply change, is by believing he has lost you and the family you have created. I don't think its easy to act as if, the 2nd time around. So it has to really happen...and see what happens down the road maybe.

I do not think it's likely, but it's possible and there is always hope.

I also believe you are harming your chances of this happening down the road, by delving into the minutia of what he's going to do if you say X or if you do Ym and the repeated spinning that is happening.

He said he is done, repeatedly, but throws you a vague "needs space/time" bone now & then. But his behavior mostly comports with being out the door & he spends time with an OW & lies about it.


This weekend I've already enforced the boundaries of no shared time. The main boundary is him still staying the night at the house. He's just using it as a hotel and isn't really spending time there.

What is the boundary?? He can come if he wants?


He doesn't come home from work til 8-9pm and usually sees the kids for 30 mins to an hour then goes on the couch watches TV and goes to bed. We don't talk.
Is that okay if that's the situation and there's little to no interaction

I don't see anything here^^ that helps you much. Or costs him anything since he's getting the time HE wants. And it makes you tense, which is 100% normal.

cannot afford for him to not pay so that's where my concern comes from.


what would you get from him in CS and some temporary or permanent alimony? How on earth is he buying a house AND does that hurt you once he has a mortgage?
I'd do some serious budget analysis to see how much better off you are with this arrangement which, btw, will likely change to your detriment when things with OW get more demanding...

he will have free time to spend money on - vacation, dinners, new things for his place
etc. Sorry but you need to get into self preservation mode, not save the m mode.

Saving the marriage only comes from ending THIS one. I don't know another way to say it and I'm very sorry to say it at all.



Just wondering if I let the staying over go if I just don't make myself available to him or partake in family time.

is that^^ really what you are wondering? This^^ to me is minutia. You are doing something I very much recognize....working so hard to believe what you want to believe and not seeing what is relatively clear.

YES we know he changed and yes we know he said/did things recently that are at odds with today's reality. That's a sh1t sandwich and it is a clusterf$%k for you and I'm so very sorry.

Your h says (often) that he is done and for the most part, he acts like it.

Frankly, as I said before, I'd treat him as a semi reliable baby sitter for the kids and that's it.

No "happy family" time of course. No asking him questions and guilting him which is not effective. It's just not.

Back off and be a woman only a fool would leave. Get happier, get out of the rut and I know this might be the hardest time of your life to have to get out of a rut. (This is sort of primary rut making time with a newborn.)

But that's what is real. And you have your dad nearby and whoever else to lean on...

it's smart to rely on the people you can rely on...




We know you want your boys in an intact family but you do not have one. If you were in a country requiring you to flee a revolutionary force,

would you continue saying "BUT I want to remain in what was once a peaceful land", and "I do not want this", or would you get yourself and your boys out of there?


From Sandi's post to you, which you need to take in & believe - even though you don't want it.


You may not realize it, but I gave him more slack than just about anyone I remember on the board. You wanted the M to work so badly, and when one thing failed I would come back with "okay, then try such & such to see if you get better results". I hoped upon hope he would come to his senses. As an older lady once told my heartbroken daughter, "Honey, when they have a new pu$$y, they have no common sense".

Please.....PLEASE.....follow what your father laid out to your wayward H.

[Train]

I am 100% with sandi and 25.

You've listed one fear after another for reasons you can't drop the rope. Your H has you on such a short leash.

T, let me tell you this:

I was a SAHM with ZERO income when my H left me .... both times. Both times, my H cut off our funding. The first time, he served my children and me with the equivalent of eviction papers.

I simply cannot get behind you when you say you can't set boundaries because your H will stop paying bills. Some things - like your dignity - are far more important. And PS you have a supportive family.

For the record, the second time my H cheated, I knew full-well (because of our experience the first time) that he would cut all support except a tiny amount to show the courts his "good faith effort." At that time, I didn't have a job and had four children dependent on me. But I still told H to leave the house that he, alone, paid for, and I promptly changed the locks.

I had supportive family (who couldn't afford to house my kids and me), and I knew there was a women's/children's shelter nearby if it ever came to that.

What are YOUR priorities?

[T384]

My priorities are my boys first and foremost.

Finishing school ... i cannot afford to work much this last semester. I'll be working once a week which is enough for grocery money essentially.

My parents want me to leave it be with him so he will continue paying so I can get through school. My dad said he who laughs last laughs the longest. He said he knows I have this [censored] sandwich but that. I need to keep the peace to continue getting money from H. He wants me to just get a L and file and get the money sorted out that way. The problem is Florida [censored] for divorce. I wish I lived in NC of a state that wasn't a no fault state like we are here. It will take a minimum of 90-120 days to get in front of the magistrate to get temporary funds if he stops paying.

I know I have a LOT of thinking to do. This week is my last week in internal medicine and my last day of the semester is the 26th. Then I'm off til the third week of August. I know I have big changes that need to. Be made.

So I just say to him again H you staying the night here isn't working for me? Email the schedule and that be it?

H got on the phone with me after he said goodnight to the boys. Telliing me about his day and what he did. I ended the conversation first. He said he was working tomorrow. My response was 'I'm sure you are H.' He then started to go into detail about it and I said I had to go and got off the phone.

[25yearsmlc]

I'm assuming you need to start a new thread

as for the interaction, when he says he's working tomorrow, say nothing. Just get off the phone if you think a trail of lies is starting.

At some point SOON, I hope, you can say you don't want to hear it/don't have time to hear it", etc, and then quickly but calmly get off the phone.

These^^ are small interactions that are of no real consequence imo, unless they make YOU feel better b/c you are saving seconds of your life not listening to a liar. I mean, I get that.

But as for asking if you should say this/that,

or how to handle a 2 minute conversation that is really supposed to be about if/when he comes to visit the boys, I'm bummed b/c

that is just sucking you back into the "trying to save m" vortex, which is not helping you save anything at the moment.

My priorities are my boys first and foremost.

Finishing school ... i cannot afford to work much this last semester. I'll be working once a week which is enough for grocery money essentially.

My parents want me to leave it be with him so he will continue paying so I can get through school. My dad said he who laughs last laughs the longest. He said he knows I have this [censored] sandwich but that. I need to keep the peace to continue getting money from H. He wants me to just get a L and file and get the money sorted out that way.

so your dad wants you to suck it up AND OR to file for D and sort out the money later?

Are you aware of the finances? Account numbers and insurance (that insane mortgage application he made for himself??) b/c THAT would be my priority b/c it's your money AND your son's.

IF I could go back in time a year, AND had known what was coming, I'd have gotten my sh1t together and copied all the info, figured out the finances (taken half of the community assets then)

and I would be in a MUCH better place now emotionally and financially and professionally - AND those are linked.

Financial security is part of the whole healing process here. The better it is, the more energy we have for making forward movement in other areas.

Don't just assume your h is the better financial alternative to taking back your life and getting a fair settlement. I would assume he's not.



The problem is Florida [censored] for divorce. I wish I lived in NC of a state that wasn't a no fault state like we are here. It will take a minimum of 90-120 days to get in front of the magistrate to get temporary funds if he stops paying.


Well - You live In Florida. Wishing you did not live where you live, is really not getting you anywhere.

I don't KNOW what you'll get from filing sooner/later. I strongly believe he is hiding money and making plans that do not include giving you a lot of money down the road. How far down the road, who knows? My h is an MD who pretends he retired and can only send me 12% of his income, which he denies earning. AND I have a court order for 10 times more...

but I am still in the dark about a lot of account info b/c I was hospitalized when h was making plans for the tundra adventure. YOU are not in a hospital and you are awake.
You are an empowered woman who is afraid of acting on that power.

I know that the sooner you act, the sooner you get in front of a magistrate. AND I hope having a newborn baby & 2 older sons gets you in front a bit sooner. ((Whether the numbers add up is for a Florida lawyer to tell you.))

But waiting it all out means You are putting your financial future in your h's hands AND in your ability to detach from him. That has not been successful yet. And that is why I'm hard pressed to say wait it out.

I could see doing that temporarily in other situations, but this one is making you nuts and probably affecting your health.


...

I know I have a LOT of thinking to do. This week is my last week in internal medicine and my last day of the semester is the 26th. Then I'm off til the third week of August. I know I have big changes that need to. Be made.

So I just say to him again H you staying the night here isn't working for me? Email the schedule and that be it?

I don't know the answer to this^^ b/c I don't know your goal.

If you need help with the boys, and you think your h can give you help - then take the help. If he's not reliable, then don't bother.

It is 100% about what helps YOU do your work for school and helps with the boys. It would have nothing to do with my attitude towards him or the "it's over" marriage at this point.

You have a full plate. You're a mama and a grown woman in training for her profession.

So if you spend any energy analyzing your interactions with this indecisive dishonest navel gazing boy/man, then it's not helping YOU - or your sons and

you are the only people I care about at this point.

H got on the phone with me after he said goodnight to the boys. Telliing me about his day and what he did. I ended the conversation first. He said he was working tomorrow. My response was 'I'm sure you are H.' He then started to go into detail about it and I said I had to go and got off the phone.

this ^^ is minutia and more blah blah blah from him. You're too busy living in real life for that.

[OwnIt]

T3,

My two best friends are divorce lawyers, one in Florida and one in Texas. They both told me to get the settlement done with him as soon as he left. Both said he would be the most generous then when he was happy about his new life and thinking everything was wonderful. My lawyer was very slow in drafting the separation contract and by the time it was done, my H had already broken up with OW1. At that point, he wanted to string me along in case he didn't have anyone. Now he is on OW2 and starting to turn the screws on me. Any remorse or regret is long gone. Now he just wants as much money as he can have for his new life.

I know it feels safer to play nice and take the kibbles he throws your way, but long term he likely won't get nicer. The thing I still have going for me is that mine fears me. The MC we briefly saw told me out of his presence that when I set a hard boundary he tends to follow it. I would say that has been the case.

I wish I had been more like Rain and moved swiftly and surely at the beginning. Not so much in an effort to have him back because I now fully appreciate that I don't want him, but just for my own self-worth and to have secured what I am sure would have been a more beneficial agreement.

I just fear when he has that mortgage and the OW to splurge on and the more distant he becomes from you and the kids, the less what little conscience he has is likely to bother him.

[25yearsmlc]

what OWN said.

Please learn from our experience

b/c then at least we will know we lessened the sucktacular aspects of this garbage for someone else...

I don't just say this to console you, but I am positive you AND your sons are going to have more joy and peace without this self indulgent man/boy in your life.

I am not positive of what your man/boy will feel, ever.

It's your side of the equation you control.

[sandi2]

Yes, I believe *this* MR is done. I'm sorry, TO. I think you need to let it go and stop trying to save what you once had, b/c it's not there anymore. We can't make someone love us! So, grieve or mourn the loss, but don't let it possess you. You have been like a crazy LBW who is desperately trying to control what he thinks and what he does.......and you must let go of the control handle. Number one, you really weren't controlling anything, and number two, it was turning you into someone unattractive. Do not do that to yourself. Set yourself free. As I've told you in the past, I did not see my own contol issues, until it was pointed out to me. It's tough, but you can train yourself to let it go. It's very freeing, actually.

IMHO, the best way to approach any decision or connection with your H is by using the "Dropping the Rope" method. Sometimes, the person here gets overwhelmed by so many DB terms......b/c that person is having to deal with so much under very stressful conditions.

Dropping the Rope is like a ship that carries these other DB terms that have been mentioned, like Detaching, Going Dark, acting as if, etc. To me, it is easier to relieve your brain from trying to think, "Oh, I need to detach more", or "Maybe I should have stayed dark"......or "Was I acting too cold, or friendly neighbor?" Why don't we just drop all that stuff for now, b/c DTR ship will carry all of those things without fragmenting your brain.

This is nothing new, and I have previously talked to you about it. If you are in agreement, then it gives us a starting point and an objective. Right now, start schooling yourself to think like an individual......instead of 1/2 of a non-functional couple. You are not half of anything. You are one whole, independent, free, person. Your personal life does not include H (or ex-H, if it helps to think that way). Your objective is to drop your emotional ties to his life, and stop trying to control him and the outcome of this situation, You have become an emotional prisoner to what he may think of you, and/or what he does. This method of DTR will set you free. I am not telling you that you must stop loving him, but I am saying that, for now, do not dwell on your feelings for him......and try only to think of him as the father of your children. Much like he expressed his feelings for you. Let me emphasize that thinking of him as their father......does not include what you think he should be doing for the kids. That's his job to do with his kids. You have your own. At the moment, he wants to combine those jobs and play family in front of the kids.......but that's a big NO! He does his thing. You do your thing.

We've talked about faking it, well, your actions and feelings may seem unreal in the beginning......however, it's like reinventing yourself, or taking on a new role. You are in training, taking it day by day. The time is coming when it will be second nature for you.

Currently, you want to stop H from staying overnight. My suggestion is for you to act as if he is not there as your H or to help with boys.......b/c it messes with your mindset. Don't call/text to see what the plan is. You have a plan, and until there is a child schedule set..........go about your daily life as if he will never show his face again. If he comes or doesn't come.......who cares! If you need help with the kids, ask someone.......but don't ask him, and don't snoop to see what he's doing and why he's not there to help with the kids......and don't tell him they want to see him. Plan as if he won't come.......unless he should have the common decency to contact you in time to adjust your plans. But you don't contact him for anything, unless it is an emergency. Your problem, TO, is that it bugs you to no end that it's his responsibility to help parent these children.......and you should not have to ask for help. I get it. But look what this thinking is doing to YOU! Honey, you cannot force him to be a good parent. You have your hands full just being a good mom, and you have to let go of that rope you have around him......yanking him and trying to force him to do what is right. Drop the rope. Let it land where ever it falls. Don't look back at him to see what he's doing or how he reacts to the rope that is gone.

Should he just pop in and take the baby while you study, it's no big deal. He doesn't get a medal. He is lucky to get a "thanks" for taking the baby out of your arms while you study........b/c he is a parent, after all. The law says he can be there, so okay, he gets no special treatment. He certainly is not a guest. He is not a neighbor. You don't have to make small talk. You don't have to play nice. You don't have to do anything but be you. Great, huh? Just think about all that stress falling away, when you can just be TO again......and don't have to worry about walking on eggshells. You aren't trying to impress him. You sure aren't trying to "win" him. So, relax. Let it go.

You don't need to sweat the small stuff, like, "Should I be nice, say hi or goodnight, thanks for your help, etc". Yes, you can speak when he arrives. If it's handy to say bye, that's fine. Just don't make it a big deal. If the kids are in bed, and he's watching tv when you are ready to retire......you don't have to search for him to say goodnight. Why bother? B/c it is good manners? (Really? I hear this stuff from LBS's and wonder......he's having an affair and breaking up the M, and you are worried about showing good manners when the kids aren't watching? This is the kind of stuff that messes with LBS's head. Well.........hopefully, you get my point and nobody will misunderstand what I mean, too badly, b/c this post it too long to expound on this particular subject). And btw, he doesn't get to sleep with you when he stays overnight. . (If it were me, the bedroom door would probably be locked, just to make sure). No discussion necessary. .

DTR means you don't analyze his every move or spoken word.......b/c you don't have the time, the energy, or concern. If you do the action of not being concerned, the feeling will catch up. You are in your home, and you'll do whatever the heck you feel like doing......and if he doesn't like it......who cares? Not you! And, since things have shifted into a whole new gear......when he comes to spend time with the boys (and should he decide to stay over).....you are not required to leave your home and stay out till 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning, trying to show him how you are GAL. Now understand what I am saying here. If you are having real fun while out with friends, or whatever.......that's great. Enjoy yourself every chance you get. Just don't stay out late trying to show him you are GAL. At this point, you aren't concerned what he thinks, and therefore, you are not trying to show HIM anything. Get it? This is a little different than you were originally told. That's b/c we are starting with a clean slate, and you are dropping all your stuff that you were doing to draw him back. Now, you will do all your stuff for mainly four people, your boys and you....and what he thinks about you and what you do, is not your concern. You are dropping that end of the rope......b/c, dang, that thing was heavy!

What do you do when he calls the kids and then wants to talk to you about his day? Same as when he texts you. Use absolutely as few words as possible. On the phone, say uh-huh or grunt a few times and then tell him you've got to go. After all, who does he think you are? His buddy?

[Cadet]

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