No ultimatums because we know that doesn't work. So I don't know how to regain my power.
What do you mean by ultimatum? By saying to W "her or me!"? I agree that that wont work.
But I do believe that setting your own boundary on what you will accept isnt really an ultimatum. Saying "Im not going to be in a relationship with someone who doesnt honor an agreement....who continues to talk with OW in secret...who lies to me by omission...etc" isnt an ultimatum. Thats a personal decision about what you want in a relationship.
Nothing in your situation is going to change until you change something. Because right now, the two of you are going around and around and around in the same exact pattern. She exhibits the same behavior which leads to your exact same response.
So if you wont accept it, what are you going to do about it? Right now, your words and your actions arent matching. You say you wont accept her behavior....but your actions show that you will.
From cadence: "Does having this career loyalty to OW and excuse to communicate with her, and then a choice to tell or not tell you make her feel powerful? MOST LIKELY, YES.
Does it allow her to feel in charge of you and your relationship? THAT SOUNDS RIGHT.
Does it make her view herself as the real adult and you as some sort of dependent? I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THAT, BUT IT IS DEFINITELY CONTROL. AND WHEN IT COMES UP AND THE ARGUMENT FOLLOWS, SHE LIKES TO PULL OUT THE FACT THAT THE HOUSE IS HERS, NOT MINE, EVEN THOUGH I DO 99% OF ALL HOME MAINTENANCE MYSELF OR ARRANGE TO HAVE IT DONE.
And, most of all, does it create a natural obstacle to her full commitment to you? YES. SHE HAS BEEN GUN SHY ABOUT MARRIAGE FOREVER, AND SO WE HAVE NO LEGAL BOND EVEN AFTER 11 YEARS. SHE SAYS SHE'S COMMITTED BUT THEN SHE REFUSES TO LOOK AT MARRIAGE OR PUTTING MY NAME ON THE HOUSE. SHE ADMITS THAT NOT TELLING ME WHEN SHE COMMUNICATES WITH ow MAKES THINGS WORSE, BUT SHE STILL CHOOSES TO LIE OR KEEP THINGS FROM ME. IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME. AND IT KEEPS ME AT ARMS LENGTH, EVEN AS SHE SWEARS SHE WANTS TO SPEND HER LIFE WITH ME AND IS FULLY COMMITTED.
Thanks for telling me that story, cadence. It's so crazy how we have these hidden reasons for the way we act or react.
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
BTW friends, did you know that Pink and her XH have reconciled?! She was posting in Midlife Crisis forever, but apparently lost her password or maybe is just choosing not to post. They've been working on things since mid-May I think. So happy for them!! Fingers crossed...
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THAT, BUT IT IS DEFINITELY CONTROL. AND WHEN IT COMES UP AND THE ARGUMENT FOLLOWS, SHE LIKES TO PULL OUT THE FACT THAT THE HOUSE IS HERS, NOT MINE, EVEN THOUGH I DO 99% OF ALL HOME MAINTENANCE MYSELF OR ARRANGE TO HAVE IT DONE.
Quote:
SHE HAS BEEN GUN SHY ABOUT MARRIAGE FOREVER, AND SO WE HAVE NO LEGAL BOND EVEN AFTER 11 YEARS. SHE SAYS SHE'S COMMITTED BUT THEN SHE REFUSES TO LOOK AT MARRIAGE OR PUTTING MY NAME ON THE HOUSE. SHE ADMITS THAT NOT TELLING ME WHEN SHE COMMUNICATES WITH ow MAKES THINGS WORSE, BUT SHE STILL CHOOSES TO LIE OR KEEP THINGS FROM ME. IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME. AND IT KEEPS ME AT ARMS LENGTH, EVEN AS SHE SWEARS SHE WANTS TO SPEND HER LIFE WITH ME AND IS FULLY COMMITTED.
This makes me really upset to read. I only recently read through your posting history and I very clearly remember that as part of your reconciliation, she was going to put your name on the house to give you some financial stability. Otherwise you were going to buy a condominium.
Also, I believe there was talk of marriage, and now she's putting the brakes back on there.
While I believe in being reasonable, I'm upset to read that she has no follow through on the things she knew were important to you.
Have you bought a condominium?
I'm concerned that you have put so much money and effort into her home, yet she isn't following through on legally making it your home, as well.
I would go out and buy a condo and not discuss it with her, but maybe I'm just petty.
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
NYGal, I hope you will start thinking seriously about your own future and the possibility of living on your own. You can pursue two paths at one time. This is the time to get yourself a condo and rent it out while you're still living with your partner - it will pay for itself. I would get a 2BR/2BA so you can have a roommate and still get income if you end up moving in there.
Dependence can cause lack of respect from a partner. The financially stronger partner - regardless of what the agreement is - can start feeling superior and slightly contemptuous. Maybe it's because lack of self-respect breeds lack of respect from others? Which could explain why the GAL work we do can sometimes make a fleeing partner turn around and come back.
Are you filling your life with independent activities?
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
NYGal - reiterating what I said before, my W finally quit working with OM and the relief was immediate. Yes, we're struggling financially. Yes, we're dealing with bill collectors, cutting back, etc. And YES, I'm finally happy.
I just found out my W made a brief stop back at her job several months later, making sure OM wasn't there, because she missed her friends. You have NO idea how much this set me back. To her it was innocent. She didn't hide it, but she didn't reveal it either.
We're dealing with the fallout now, her mad at me for snooping, me mad at her for visiting the old job for no real reason.
I'm sorry, but them together just won't work for your recovery. Just the mere thought of my W stopping by now is devastating enough.
Me: 52 Her: 48 2D 26 & 16 M: 25 years (together 30) EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016 Admitted SOME physical but no IC. We know that's a lie. Status - tryin to R
Regarding my previous post and the responses about getting over my anger toward ow... Like BluWave said, I think it's particularly difficult because ow is the head of Human Resources here, so her reach extends throughout this place. She has dated at least three but maybe four or more people at our place of employment (was married to one). She has no boundaries and when she sees an opening that might help her and she jumps right in, no matter who she hurts. Can you change jobs? I'm serious. This^^ is a $hit sandwich you are having to eat everyday. It's not okay. It's not healthy for you. Probably hurts your job performance and I have to say I'm surprised the head of HR has had 3+ relationships with co-workers, never mind married or committed ones...
- as I'm arriving at work on Monday it all floods back. I don't want to see her. I don't want to hear about her. But I have to. you have more choices than you realize. Get unstuck. Seriously. You do not "have" to be a victim.
And it doesn't help when W hides her phone and doesn't keep promises not to call her "about 100% work related business". "doesn't help"?? No, it does not help. It pretty much slaps your face with how little the your pain means to her. See what she is doing, please. Not what she says or promises but what she is doing.
That is reality.
Ugh.
That happened this morning. As we agreed, she told me that ow emailed her last night, and even showed me the email a little bit ago. She agreed not to call her as ow requested, but rather to email her back. But she called her cell phone instead. she broke another agreement. How many is that now? How many are going to be accepted? I'm not being snarky, I'm asking if you know.
So I don't know what to do about that. sadly, you do know...you just don't want to do it...and I understand
I keep trying to clarify the agreement and insist that she be honest and keep her promises. what's to clarify? When you have to "insist that she be honest" what does that say about your partner?
Who needs to be told to be honest or reminded of it?
But she's stubborn and will do it her own way. Over and over. is "Stubborn" really the term here? She lied. She broke the agreement, again. I'm not sure stubborn is the term although it may also fit. So we struggle. And not to be dramatic, but I suffer. I do. And I wish with all my heart it could be different.
I believe you do suffer. I'm with you there. And no I do not believe your w will ever know how much. You can't make her see it or feel it. If she did, this would not be happening and I know how much that $ucks to hear!
So, my advice? See that you DO have options and stop letting fear keep you paralyzed.
it's NOT as if one of your options here is "a happy honest m with w".
That is not on the table as of now.
And that is a bitter pill to swallow. I wish I could make it easier for you but all I can say is to ignore all the nice words coming out of your w 's mouth, when/if they come
and only look at what is real.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
One month later and W has again "neglected" to tell me that she and ow are now going to be in regular meetings in ow's office (with a handful of others.)The first one is this Friday. They've been emailing at least since last Friday and while it all appears to be professional and above board I am, again, LIVID that she didn't tell me.(Remember, the emails were always professional even during the affair because they are oh so professional... and would NEVER mix business with... ???) And remember, our agreement was she would tell me immediately whenever there was contact. So my line in the sand must-do has been violated again. I know, I know, I keep moving the line or toeing it in again. And she keeps blaming me. It's all my fault because I get upset because she doesn't tell me and then I find out. I'm not able to convey to her that IF SHE WOULD ONLY TELL ME IT WOULD MAKE ME A LOT LESS UPSET THAN ME FINDING OUT BY DECODING HER PASSWORD - which she recently changed again - AND SEEING THE EMAILS AND MEETINGS IN HER CALENDAR.
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
A little homework for you: go back and read your threads. Read about the goals you had for yourself, and the boundaries you set with W (regarding the house and marriage). How long ago was that? Have those boundaries materialized?
I guess I'd ask you to start to think about power dynamics in relationships. I've read a book that I can't mention here that speaks about these power dynamics, and how one person tends to hold more of the cards in the R. That person normally has outside interests and is a bit more detached. Meaning, they have less to lose if the relationship ends because they've invested heavily in themselves. The other partner sees this as very attractive.
I think your W holds the cards because you've handed them to her, again. You idolize her and you fear losing her. You've shown her that there are NO consequences for violating some very reasonable boundaries you set for the woman who kicked you out of your home so she could carry on an affair with a coworker. And now you're back, she's not doing the small things that you asked her to do (though, admittedly, you have reacted like an adorable rabid banshee in the past which put her off telling you things).
So what do you do? Continue being the one down? The ol' reliable NYGal who W can take for granted because NYGal is always going to be there no matter what?
Or does the NYGal who started finding herself re-emerge and say "This was not what I agreed to. I'm going to detach and devote my energy to investing in myself." Or, if you wanted, your re-emergence could be a much harsher boundary. There's a spectrum of choices here, but I think that the one thing that could shock W would be if you started to care for yourself more than her and showed her evidence of it. Maybe you start to care a little less about everything to do with her and her life and her house and and and, and started investing in your life apart from her. That might have her thinking that maybe you're not such a sure thing, and the power would be a little less uneven.
Start condo hunting. We've heard the excuses, but you had a plan way back when to invest in a property of your own if W didn't include you on the deed (which has yet to materialize, as I understand it.) W could boot you out again and you'd have nothing, NYGal. And she's done it once before, so you know it's possible.
Go get that condo, girl. No more excuses. If W seeks your reassurance that you're not looking to move into it, don't give it to her. Playfully start speculating about the fabulous life you'd have (start talking about the parties you'd throw and the DJs and and and.)
Get interests out of the house that have you away from W. Learn about codependency, because codependents are always the one-downs in the R, and you strike me as one. If you're doing the R heavy lifting, W can under function. So it's time to even that out with actions, not words. Stop doing the heavy lifting, and start doing it in your own life, for you.
Less time worrying about W and OW, and more time thinking about you and what makes you happy and how you can be your own security. If you can pull this off, in a few weeks W will have noticed, and the power dynamic may have started shifting.
I also feel like maybe it's time to stop talking about OW and W failing you. It's not getting you anywhere. I think it's time for your feet to start doing the talking, because W doesn't believe words. She thinks you'll always be an option for her, no matter what. So start GAL and showing her that isn't necessarily so; that NYGal knows she is lovable and worth someone caring about what she needs and that she's fully able to walk if she's not getting it.
Do not confuse what I've said above with anger or passive-aggressiveness. Slight detachment and more focus on you, that's all. Do not talk about the R. Do not be baited into arguments. Detachment. Believe in your heart that you do not deserve to be taken for granted, because if W cannot see it, then that is her problem.
Somewhere along the way you lost yourself again. And here you are, totally dependent on a W who seems to be taking you for granted. You set boundaries but then didn't follow through on them, and W has no faith she needs to think about anyone but herself. Unfortunately, that puts you in a pickle and the only way to even the balance is for you to focus almost exclusively on yourself and to stop fearing loss. (Easy to say, but hard to do, I know.)
Reading what I said might make you feel panic, because it doesn't sound good, but really I've got no idea what will happen. I'm simply urging you to remember your DB principles of GAL, pursuit and distance, and detachment, and remember what happens when we work to shift the power balance in the LBS' favor.
Start looking around, in your office and in your friendships. Start to notice how people feel about the people who don't have boundaries and care deeply how others view them. I'm guessing you'll start seeing that other people don't treat them well and don't think highly of them. It's a social thing - if someone doesn't think very highly of themselves, and shows us evidence of that, why would we think highly of them?
It's the same in relationships, NYGal. What have you been showing W through your actions (not your words) about how you think of yourself?
Let's detach, refuse to participate in arguments or even care what she's up to with OW, because you are so busy being awesome and building an amazing life for yourself.
Do that, give it time, and I think you'll see a shift. You have to be consistent, though. It could take a few months of you being really self-absorbed for W to notice.
