Super sad story. We'll never know of course but let me dissent and say maybe not mental illness. After b d, I never thought of hurting my w but I thought a lot about running away or killing myself which is just another form of escape. On the outside, no one knew this. I did well at work, upheld all of my social responsibilities with family and friends...yet inside, I was in the darkest place I'd ever been. I could not sleep. When I couldn't take it anymore, I finally told a friend and that was the road to self recovery for me, but it was very dark for about three months.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Same for me.. I had suspicion of ex-h planning to kill me. I knew for a fact he wanted to hurt me. In the mist of the crazyness, i saw running away or killing myself would solve everything.. i have ran.. i drove for 30 minutes and emotionally crashed.. i had to stop the car and scream, cry, pray.this was it.. decision time!!! Realisation time!! This was the solution???? NO! And why? The impact of my choice onto my children. My love for them and their need of me became my force.. i drove back home.drained but with a reason to live!
That is certainly a shocking story indeed. In the early part of my career I worked legal aid. We only took divorces if there was violence in the prior 90 days. Needless to say I saw a number of violent situations and women in absolute terror.
I think a lot of this stuff is just about control. Some people need it so badly they will go to any length to get it. I see my own STBX and how much he likes to control me. I just had a R talk with him to push the ball forward and during that conversation I told him I was moving away from here and he spent a good 10 minutes telling me where I should move in the city I am planning to go to.
Doesn't sound like any of you could have picked up the signs. Doesn't sound at all premeditated. Perhaps when he went into the house he just became suddenly enraged; perhaps he was abusive in the past and you all didn't know it.
Or - perhaps she taunted him and he just snapped; then, horrified at what he had done, went home and killed himself.
No way of knowing. But a good lesson to discuss in the group the importance of getting treatment for depression symptoms, and to keep the focus more on GAL and moving forward, rather than ruminating on the loss.
Super sad story. We'll never know of course but let me dissent and say maybe not mental illness. After b d, I never thought of hurting my w but I thought a lot about running away or killing myself which is just another form of escape. On the outside, no one knew this. I did well at work, upheld all of my social responsibilities with family and friends...yet inside, I was in the darkest place I'd ever been. I could not sleep. When I couldn't take it anymore, I finally told a friend and that was the road to self recovery for me, but it was very dark for about three months.
Gordie, please don't be offended, but this^^ description sounds like severe depression for which you sought help. How is that not mental illness?
(I don't mean insanity, just despair and depression. A "very dark place".
Clearly R was in a dark place for sure. No question.
FWIW, there was no planning in this. (This was explored at length tonight).
So he snapped and then had a few minutes to drive 1/2 a mile to his place, get a gun and take his own life.
I wouldn't say that was sufficient time to recover from a damn traumatic event of an unplanned attack, or whatever state he was in, but I suspect he began to realize the enormity of what he'd done and couldn't face it.
Here is one take away from the support group, to focus more on ...
We all have to remember that no matter how dark a place we find ourselves, no matter the levels of loss, there is hope. Things really do get better.
Either R could not see Hope anymore, or something threw him so off balance...
His ex was going to buy a house with her boyfriend. From what I understand the bf was not an OM, but a guy she began dating after the Div.
I'm sure that hurt R, & he realized a recon was not likely, and financial problems were present, and his disabled son was increasingly hard to manage - while R was also trying to bond with his d9 - and so on...
No violence before this, but R had admitted he had anger issues he wanted to work on.
As bad as that^^ now sounds, (as his anger issue clearly had an epic fail)- the point is that he saw it, he admitted it and he was trying...
Look, I know I'm defending the bad guy in this. It's weird, I know.
R did a terrible horrific thing that will have generational ramifications. And now he's gone forever, and so is the mother of his children.
I'm still really quite a bit stunned.
Guys, As of Saturday, R was a good man helping others. He quietly but specifically cheered and encouraged all of us in the group. Little pep talks with insight.
He was also just a middle aged guy struggling to face enormous loss due in part to his own demons, which he owned up to. He seemed to be doing everything he could to improve as a man and father.
I wonder if it was just in that minute...OR if he had lost all hope...??
Sometimes it's really hard to feel in our hearts, what we know in our heads.
The sun will eventually rise, even if the night seems endless & without stars.
Not to lose hope, but to hold it tightly, especially when you're under fire.
thanks for listening
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
R was not a control freak. Not a narcissist or any such thing. He was the LBSer.
Nor was he a "woe is me type". For instance, He never mentioned the level of disability his son had until he learned that eventually it would kill his son. He was very sad about that. At the barbecue I was very moved, b/c the son (who is the twin brother of R"s d9) requires a lot of work to just keep alive. And R was incredibly attentive.
There's some cognizance in his son, but it had to have been terribly draining on R. Facing that without a partner would be daunting for anyone. Plus his d9 wanted daddy time, which is cute but demanding... and then mommy was busy GAL with her bf, ( for which I do not blame her).
I'm Not sure what all the money issues were but R had invited his sister to move in with him at his rental house ===
I'm sorry. I don't mean to defend him by explaining his life's issues.
Just saying that until that day, no, he was not a jerk. It's odd to see the other side of someone before they make an irrevocable choice.
It's like the group is only allowed to feel contempt for him but we don't.
We are incredibly disappointed & horrified. And we also feel grief for his family AND for him. We said a lot of prayers for his children tonight, first prayer and the last. (And for him and for his x w).
I feel shame that we don't just hate him, like we have to be quiet about secretly missing him. The newspapers barely mention him, and there's a gofundme for his w's funeral and for their kids, which I totally understand. I have no idea who will care for their disabled son and I think R would never ever have done this with any forethought. No way.
And R's death is tragic too. He was not a one dimensional man.
OMG, I guess his sister has to pay for his funeral...God, what a cluster---k.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Wow, 25 - how horrible. Doesn't sound like any of you could have picked up the signs.
Now that I've talked to the others, I agree. I wanted The group leader to know that this should not cast a shadow on the organization's value. It's really useful. (Imagine if DB had people right there physically present (and able to go for drinks after a meeting)
and hang out on weekends so that GAL is easier and with those who really do get it.
The group leader said that she was reflecting on whether Hope was stressed enough b/c we do tend to focus on getting thru the gritty details and I think that's totally valid to examine. [b]Doesn't sound at all premeditated.
True- and no one thinks he planned this. Several reasons for that belief but i don't think I want to get into the forensics aspect here. Maybe later or elsewhere.
So, full agreement no premeditation.
And probably nothing we could have seen?? He was wound tightly though, wouldn't you say?
Perhaps when he went into the house he just became suddenly enraged; perhaps he was abusive in the past and you all didn't know it.
Or - perhaps she taunted him and he just snapped; then, horrified at what he had done, went home and killed himself.[/b] ^^^all possibilities. I'm just shaking my head, literally I just did.
No way of knowing. But a good lesson to discuss in the group the importance of getting treatment for depression symptoms, and to keep the focus more on GAL and moving forward, rather than ruminating on the loss.
Amen sister. Last Friday I had lunch with my friend who lost her son in the fall (undiagnosed cardiac myopathy).
She mentioned how she could not see living everyday the next 40 years, missing her son this way, and she broke down.
All I could say was "but maybe everyday won't be like THIS day"....
there's some moral to this anecdote I can't quite express at the moment.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
What an awful thing that has happened in your community.I hope that this terrible incident will not impact the ability of Divorce Care to serve those who are suffering a marital crisis.
I'll pray for all of those who will now need to keep living after this tragedy.
M:50 W:53 MR:20 D:21 S:17 S:11 BD-Sept 2015 Suspected PA Sept 2015-Confronted W & OM Dec 2015 Actually EA In house Sep:Jan/16-May 2016 W moved out:May 22 2016 OM-Intro Oct/17-On scene July/Aug 2017
As sad/horrifying as that all was, I'm redirecting my focus onto my own path. Not saying I won't continue to ponder and muddle about R's behavior and such,
but I know I have a tendency to deflect from my own path when tragedy strikes another.
And as "empathetic" as that can be (and often is), it's also a way to avoid my own pain.
Dealing with d19's legal problem and spoke to a good sounding defense attorney. Oh guess what? He's NOT free...and I really truly do not have the money to pay him, at this moment. Not sure if I will, either.
D19 has some savings but dear God I hate using that. And yes, I searched for pro bono lawyers but of course she/we do not qualify.
*** Financial note for All** Fafsa for college is due this month (didn't know I'd be doing that this year...)
And I went to a seminar for divorce's financial aspects, called "Second Saturday" - ironically held on a Sunday. It's not just for women but it was aimed at those who are the lower income earners in a divorce. Mostly women.
It costs $25 and had a Div L, a therapist and a CPA/Financial Planner. VERY USEFUL info
I used to teach an intro to personal finance about investing. Well, there was a lot of info uniquely suited to divorcees (401k's have different tax consequences in divorce than I knew of, and IRAs are not treated the same in a divorce---wacky news to me)
Point of all this was ^^ to pass on the college reminder and to recommend that we all get a financial planner to review our settlement agreements as our lawyers are usually NOT trained in that. This is the biggest financial transaction of our lives and should be treated as such.
I had a dream of h last night and in it, he was at some gathering and we were still together. But when I approached him from the side to see his reaction (guess I was suspicious in the dream), and he was visibly NOT happy to see me. Ouch.
In the dream at least, it meant that I could see the lack of love he had for me right then.
Gee, nothing symbolic there!
The fear of him being indifferent to me now is palpable. It's hard to believe due to the time together and all that he meant to me. All that our m meant to me but also, I cede the fear of leaving was stronger in me than I care to admit.
Whatever love he MAY feel, is a lot easier to block out when you have a new R and no reminders as you are in your "paradise adventure land". Yes, sure, I know this in my head.
But I have to face 2 things. H is not loving towards me no matter what he may feel or when he may feel it. And he may really have talked himself out of love b/c as we all know, love is always partly a choice. I think Not loving is also partly a choice. Maybe I need to make that choice more strenuously.
Second,my tendency to ruminate has to be cognitively more disciplined. Shorter.
I MUST redirect my time and thoughts away from h and the past, way more and faster.
A few months back I told myself that I had to learn from my mistakes, which is true.
But that cannot mean it's what I mostly think about. And It does not have to mean the lessons learned must happen before moving forward.
For ME, I have to move forward NOW. I cannot remain stuck anymore. This summer (though it's God awful humid back here! I'm reminded of why I prefer drier climates)
And then it'll be autumn and then winter and I have got to have a new life going on.
As I go along and really begin to enjoy at least some aspects of this new life, I can periodically check for a lesson from the past. I don't have to keep looking there. Like my mantra is supposed to be, "don't look back; it's not where you're going."
I must learn to enjoy a lot more about this new life, now.
The GDC will entail much looking back and much regret/fear, so I'm going to try to make that the only part of "backward looking" that I do each day I do it. That is the goal for this summer or till the divorce is final, whichever is longer.
No date on when the divorce might be done,but maybe this summer. Seems really fast to me.
God, it could happen right before our 36th anniversary. Lovely. Guess I won't be spending it in Paris (but I will go to Paris! Trust me on that).
I should plan some type of ritual for the anniversary or that day will bring me DOWN...
(unless I force my focus to be elsewhere??)
That's it for now
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Not to keep you away from your focus, but I don't think that WS or narcissists have the inside track on control issues. Although I have not had homicidal thoughts toward my H, I have struggled most in this situation in areas around control. Several times on hearing things he did WITHOUT CONSULTING ME I was either furious or sobbing and screaming uncontrollably. It is sad to me in retrospect how much value I have placed on control.
I don't believe that love ever leads someone to kill. Instead it is that something dark inside of each of us that can be tapped under the right (wrong) circumstances. For example, would I kill someone that I thought will kill, rape, or subject my children to extreme bodily harm? More than likely and I am by no means a violent person. In the DV incidents in which I was involved as a lawyer, I witnessed issues with control, loss of control, and an attempt to establish control.
The fact that he killed himself is entirely understandable and Many of these types do the same thing. It is simply another way to maintain control over the outcome (prison, dealth penalty, suicide).
I completely understand your feelings toward him. This wasn't some statistic. This was a living, breathing person whose pain and suffering you were witness to.
Now, you've stated a goal to move on from remaining stuck, how do you get unstuck (of course I partly ask this for myself). I made the decision to press for the separation contract knowing it would result in divorce talk. I still spent the next two days sobbing and shaking from the reality that I am closing this book and letting go of those last strands of hope that keep me tethered in a very unhealthy way to this person who has harmed me and my children so much. I have even been obsessing over the fact that he seems to be gathering things for a party (perhaps 4th of July?) when he would never allow me to have people over, have friends for that matter, and certainly never throw a party. Part of me says who cares. The other part is infuriated.
Have you ever read Pema Chodron? I think she is a huge help with "stuckness".
