25yearsmlc 10 yrs later I File D (part 4)

[25yearsmlc]

KML

I have 3 kids and I swear, hand to God, if any one of them pulled some crap like this on their families, 10-30 - 50? years from now, I'd fly/drive or wheelchair on out there and be doing some 'splainin'.

The cycle breaks when we stop it from continuing.

[kml]

Yeah, I was disappointed that my ex's family didn't come to my defense when he left. Not surprised about my ex FIL, as he and I didn't have a close bond, but one of ex's sisters and I were very close, and I didn't hear squat from her after he left.

I understand - blood is thicker than water, and it's not like their intervention could have changed anything at that point. Plus who knows what BS my ex fed them to justify their actions. Yet it's disappointing, especially that in a pretty Catholic family like theirs, no one seemed to speak up.

[Sotto]

I had the same experience with XH's family as you did KML. They are transatlantic, so I guess we wouldn't have done much visiting in any case - but I feel so hurt to be cast aside from them in my hour of need. We used to go on holiday with them and I (thought I) had good relationships with them, particularly his parents.

It took a while to process that one, but in truth I don't think about it much nowadays. They didn't prove to be 'true' friends to me and I really don't have much time for them now even if they chose to get in touch again.. It is a shame when that happens though.

Xx

[bigybiz]

25yearlsmlc - once again I'm humbled by your insights. If you get a chance can you swing by my thread? I'm honored by your contribution.

[25yearsmlc]

Just wanted to share a horrible true story from Sunday. A man in my Divorce Care support group stabbed/murdered his wife and then took his own life, on Sunday.

The group is hosted by a nearby church. We meet weekly for 13 weeks, at nominal costs. (It's a VERY helpful resource).

This group of 14 happened to be about half men. I've been blessed to hear some really loving men talk about missing their kids, & wanting their marriages to work, etc.

"R" is one such man, and he had 2 kids, including a severely disabled son. R did not want the divorce, wanted to reconcile and he talked a lot about missing time with his kids.

On Sunday, R dropped his kids off at his xw's house, (not sure if/when the D was final)

R seemed to be in a good mood, waving to the neighbors who have known him for years. The witness neighbor said R "seemed happy." While his kids remained in the yard, his d9 chatting with the neighbor, R carried the equipment into the house.

Within a span of 9 minutes in total, R stabbed his ExW, ran out of the house, drove to his own place, and took his own life with his gun. EX w died on the outer ramp of her home.

I would never have predicted that this man would do such a thing.

(I believe there was no premeditation for several reasons, but that is beyond the scope of this post.)

I don't know what made R snap, and maybe I never will.

But I'm stunned. He was like a DB guy big time, he did not want the divorce. He tried to save his m.

He loved his kids, but Now they are orphans.

I know he's the bad guy in this. I know what he did was horrific and indefensible.

And I think he will only be known for the last hour of his life.

But he was not a monster before then. I liked him. He seemed to be among the least angry in the group.

The group meets tonight (needless to say) & some grief counselor will be there too.

How on earth can we try to spot this type of behavior before it happens OR is that possible? Maybe R did not harbor these thoughts before hand.

Obviously R needed more than we were giving in the group, or was it really only a 10 minute break, with 2 horrific acts of rage/grief/desperation? ?

He came to the group every week, and when he was out of town for work, he literally face timed into the meeting, so he could hear and see everyone.

IF you had told me that someone in the group would do this, R would have been the last (male) I'd have believed capable of this.

Not sure what I'm expecting from this post, but maybe insights or things to watch out for or whatever.

If I'm right and R did not plan this & if this was as sudden as it seems to have been, what trigger could exist that would lead to this terrible violence??

What do we look for??

[AnotherStander]

I would never have predicted that this man would do such a thing.

Before BD and my subsequent trip into depression and anxiety, stories like this shocked me. But afterwards, they don't surprise me at all. When I was deep in the grip of depression I was not myself. My mind went to really dark places, I couldn't function at work or at home, I felt completely dead and empty inside, like a walking hollow shell. I don't recall ever having thoughts of taking my W's life but certainly I remember that I not only thought of killing myself, but I came up with several plans for it and even convinced myself it was the best course of action for me, my W and my kids. Thank the Lord I had the presence of mind to seek out medical help. After I was on the road to recovery I could scarcely believe I had become that strange, bizarre, empty shell of a person that actually thought death sounded like a rational choice. I still can't believe it.

I think the medical field has a long, long way to go in figuring out what kind of chemical changes happen to us after life-changing events like a BD. It affects people very deeply, many of us truly do become mentally ill. It's beyond something that a little counseling will fix, we often need medication to get us back on track. But mental illness is a taboo subject, it's seen in a different light than physical illness. In my mind they are both the same, the person is sick and needs medical attention to get well again. I hope that some day people can discuss mental illness as a malady, without feeling shame or embarrassment that they are going through it or went through it. Until we get to that point we're going to continue hearing these horribly tragic stories about normal people that inexplicably "lose it".

[25yearsmlc]

I hear you AS and thanks for replying. Killing his wife (or himself) was totally at odds with his religious beliefs too. This particular group is hosted by a church. No "doctrine" is preached but we do pray and I recall R leading a prayer himself. So I do think it was mental illness that was underneath whatever ability he had to function at work.

So I guess it's not about what we could have done for him, but that something in him was holding onto the ledge by a thread...and whatever happened in that house in that 2 minute time period, pushed him off the ledge.

Or maybe he was steaming inside all the while, and faking outside. I don't know. I know he didn't bring the gun with him to kill her and he had just been with the kids, but he owned one (he killed himself with it minutes later).

I felt like I was at my maxed out stress after d19 got arrested/assaulted AND H cut off her college in the same week.

But I never felt like I'd kill someone or myself. More like I'd flee to a place far away...

the few times I thought of offing myself, which were brief, I always remembered that my kids and siblings and friends would feel really crappy. Forever ruined.

And I'd be the "loser" in this whole big weird ordeal. I don't want to be that. I want to be the winner

or A winner (not saying there can only be one).

ugh...

I'm sad that R will be vilified as being an evil monster. I already saw people blaming guns AND OR that "men kill wives b/c they think the women belong to them"...

but as you say & as I believe, it was mental illness. Severe depression for at least a year since his BD (might have been 2 years, can't recall at the moment).

There is no record of domestic violence and no police calls to his home. I felt that he came across as articulate and calm.

The last 2 meetings he did not initiate any discussion or use his turn to speak. He replied to other's comments or questions, and he made an effort to be at every meeting, even if from afar.

I saw his fewer words as meaning nothing big had changed in his situation or that he was more at peace with it.

Wrong again.

[leahsue]

Oh 25, what a tragic, sad story! I too, believe the stress brought on by BD, especially when it's sprung on us with no real warning signs, can be catastrophic. I think the acute sadness and loneliness can be overwhelming. I'm so sad for the children. Lose, lose, all the way around.

I also know your tendency to shoulder others' heartbreak, so be careful not to immerse yourself in the "what we could have done" too deeply. Those types of meetings lend themselves to quick, strong bonding among the walking wounded, and thank goodness for that- but at the same time, we can never really know what goes on in each heart and mind, what baggage each of us brings to the meeting table, or the depth of struggle that goes on in all of us. I'm sure you were kind to him, and had he shown further signs of needing help, I can easily see you being one to linger behind after the meeting and offer to help him find answers, or at least more help.

(((((25)))))))

[25yearsmlc]

thanks Leahsue

I must be mindful of not being a rescuer -and a tendency to deflect from my own struggles by diving into others, as well. It's not a trait i want to keep outside of a structured rubric. (I could be a counselor IF I KNEW that I'd turn the clock off at 6, which I guess I'd know, b/c I'd learn it or not practice as a counselor.)

I admire & am implementing better boundaries for sure

It's something I'm watching for.

At the group there's another guy - "S"- there who seemed about to break. In his divorce there will be a 3 day TRIAL- lovely.

So we were trying to prop him up, not R...

sigh

years ago, here, a WAW took her own life and her h blamed himself for awhile.

In hindsight I don't think his WAW was in a MLC at all; she had undiagnosed mental illness. I recall her getting the diagnosis and within 2 months, ending her life.

this crap is very unhealthy for us. and on that note, I will take steps tonight AND this week for self care.

We cannot affect our spouse and we cannot go back in time & we cannot "wait" for the future we hoped for, to happen. (Or call that "Standing")

I have to be here now

((( )))

[Sotto]

That is such a sad story - a sad end to a marriage and two lives - and forever changing those of the children too. It must be traumatic for your group to have been so close to that situation. Dealing with loss - the loss of the love of your partner, of your marriage, of a way of life, of security, of dreams - is incredibly difficult...and occasionally people just don't manage to make it through that process.

I once interviewed someone for a job. He didn't get the job and we sensed he was having a tough time. I tried to link with him supportively and offer our kindest face. Weeks later, I heard that he had stabbed a family member to death. I was much less close to his situation than you and your group, but I was affected by what happened too. Sometimes we just don't know all that is happening for someone and it is a reminder of our own vulnerability too..

I hope you'll contine with the group and support each other through this difficult time.

Take care xxx