On Higher Ground

[Brubeck]

Hi HaWho,

I was thinking about how all our marriages die a different death. The live-in MLCer is a horrific, drawn out Alzheimer's death.

You got me thinking about this one, because my W is also a live-in MLCer. I don't how quickly the fog set in that sent your H into the MLC tunnel (my W took about 3 weeks). Maybe the "drawn out" death is the dying of the LBS' hopes. Dropping the rope takes longer than we'd care to admit, while they checked out fast & long ago.

Your sitch involves a spouse who says they're done with the M, but hasn't done anything significant to resemble moving on. Your H has gone through car repairs, the food paranoia, the survival tactics stuff and the constant depressing music. He hasn't done anything to actually build a new life for himself (even the new furniture in his dorm room doesn't count, that's just a cosmetic change of scenery). My W is the same. Most of the changes they make are really just distractions. It gets depressing to watch - even from a distance.

Anything resembling vitality in the H came up when he saw his "MLC bestie", thus indicating he wants to live a life with the Viagra loser where it's always 5 o'clock. Of course you're "shifting" - your H believes he can really transform himself into a Jimmy Buffett song.

Today while I was at work, he texted me to say the kids had practice (which I know) and was I coming home to make dinner??? (I make dinner every night.) Just weird.

I guess that's temperature checking. He feels your recent pulling away and he's telling you he's paying attention that you're still there. He wants you to be invisible until he becomes invisible to you, then he wants assurances that you're still there, holding the family fort together.

I'm just thinking about your sitch and rambling. The "slow death" comment has got me thinking about my own sitch as well.

I'm not telling you to give up. I'm just observing that right now you seem to be shifting from a phase of fascination with the train wreck (while finding humor in it), to realizing that this person in front of you is STUCK - and they can't see it.

[HaWho]

Ownit - this sure is tough on the kids. Hate to sound like a public service announcement, but all we can do it show our unconditional love for them and teach them strong coping skills. We all face adversities in our lives and most people come out stronger and smarter for it.

Brubeck - my h's slip into the fog was more gradual than your wife's. But it is hard to watch them play whack-a-mole for years.

So, for posterity, I am positing about Mother's Day. This is my third Mother's Day in MLC. Geez. It was better than the past two. The first, 2015, was a disaster, h was in full replay and was a zombie. The second h went through some small motions. This year, h went through some "better" motions. It of course, still had the veil of weirdness that shrouds MLC.

H wrote a cute poem. (Not at all romantic but whimsical and fun.) This is what he used to do on all holidays. He signed it from all of them, even the dog. (The first year no card nor gift.) He bought flowers and a dessert I love. He specifically said the dessert was from him. The kids made me breakfast. Then we all took a walk together. All in all, a nice day. I thanked them all and sent them all a text the next day to say thanks again. Received the same response from both s13 and h: the same smiley emojicon.

H did call his m and had the boys call. This was super awkward. In front of me he told his mother that it was all about me, my day, etc. It really seemed like he was was painting himself as this perfectly normal person and us, as this high functioning couple. How far from truth the facade is.

There was one point where s13 told h that h is in his room 99% of the time. H looked really surprised and disputed that. They just don't see reality.

H continues to be pretty aware of the kids, their routines and their lives. Sometimes he helps in the same ways s13 helps out. They do at times seem like they are the same age.

There are still PA moments. He is ignoring me right now. Last night, the kids were at practice and I was not home as I went out with friends. I didn't tell him I went out as I knew they would all be out. While I was out, h came home with s11 and wanted to leave him there--he never does this during practices. He texted me this nasty message asking if I was coming home "--like now." And that is really what he wrote!

I picked up the message an hour later and said I wouldn't be home for a bit. And that, has landed me on the "ignore her existence list." And exactly just how immature does this get? This morning as I was leaving for work, h announced to the kids that he would order pizza "for them" for dinner. I popped my head back in and asked if I heard right. (This would mean I did not need to rush home to make dinner.) H: (very emphatically): yes, I was planning on ordering THE BOYS pizza. Me: okay, great. H (looking like it's a HUGE burden): Do you want me to order YOU some? Me (cheerful): no thanks!

As I closed the door I did mutter "idiot." Maybe he heard me?

[roist]

I will drop by soon and write. Until then know I am following you and supporting you. Best wishes

[Ginger1]

I'm going to tell a little story. it's a different view point and may help to understand how this might work for your kids.

In the viewpoint of the kids, of course you know what's best for them as their mom and a wonderful mom you are. I am going a child's perspective from the live-in MLC situation.

My mother was not in MLC, she was in a mental health crisis. her behaviors very much mimicked your H's. I lived with this my whole life until senior year of high school when my dad finally left. Only I was left alone with her.

My dad stayed for me all those years. he thought maybe he could cover up the effect my mother had one me by being the great parent. he was a great parent and is probably the reason why I am not on the street doing drugs or something bad.

But looking back, I was in a lot of pain watching my mom. My dad made my life full, but he didn't cover up the absence of my mother. I was hurting when she chose not to cjoin the family in almost anything. I was hurt watching her sleep all the time. I was hurt when to chose to go to Bingo every night (she traded a drug addiction for a gambling addiction)When she had no desire to eat as a family or would go and hide somewhere. The toll it was taking on my dad to have an absent wife was very very evident.

It was painful for me to watch. it also left some "I'm not worthy of my mother's love and attention" damage.

If you decide to take you and your boys out of this situation, it may actually be the better option for them. They see what's going on. They feel what's going on. Like I said, my father was a wonderful engaged father as you are a wonderful engaged mother. But this is right in front of their faces no matter how much you try to compensate.

It's something to just think about. If anything, I don't think you would be harming their childhoods if you decided to get out of this situation. There may actually be an improvement or a relief.

I hate to say it, but I kind of wish my dad had left and taken me with him. I would visit my mom of course, but the situation was so obvious especially as I got older that it became too uncomfortable for me and I took it personally. I spent majority of my time out of the house and at friends just to avoid it. Or in my room just reading books. Or sleeping. I slept a lot to avoid it.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you all. it's much akin to living with someone with a mental illness and that is difficult thing to do.

[LoisB]

Ha,

Ginger makes a good point. Do what you need to do for you and the boys. You know your situation best.

But, consider both sides carefully. The worst case scenario may not turn out to the worst afterall. This is true in my case.

My dad suffered a serious MLC when I was 12-14. My mother tried everything to keep our family intact. When I married, I prayed harder than I ever had that my children would never have to experience the same...

HOWEVER... looking back, my dad was acting like the world's biggest A$$. I remember wishing and hoping that he would just leave, because he caused so much tension in the house. I remember tremendous relief when he finally left. No more walking on eggshells.

As I look back, I can see how it wasn't my dad's leaving that caused so much pain... in fact that brought some blessed relief. The hard part was how quickly my mother moved into another abusive relationship, then we had to move, then we had another five years of serious upheaval and trauma. We never had time to heal.

My dad's leaving, in hindsight, gave my mother an opportunity she wouldn't have had otherwise. She was given the opportunity to create a really solid, peaceful life for us. She kinda bailed on this note and created some more pain, because of her fear of being alone.

A friend told me recently how divorce can be a good thing for kids. It's certainly true in our situation. I would never have the life I have now had my ex stayed.

This morning, my daughter and I spent the morning at the pool. We talked about summer plans to visit the National Gallery of Art to see the Van Gogh's. We discussed my niece coming to visit for two weeks in July. We talked about stopping at Williamsburg.

My oldest is now a raft guide in Tennessee, where she leads people on a rope's course, whitewater rapids and horseback. She NEVER would have the confidence to do this had her belittling father stayed in the picture.

My youngest with special needs, a diagnosis my ex made nearly impossible during his crisis, is confident and happy and content with herself.

Most importantly, both know home is a safe place, where no one deserves to be mistreated. They know how to overcome difficult situations. They know how to speak up when someone is being disrespectful to them, and to create firm boundaries when someone is toxic and unsupportive.

They also know they are most important. I put their needs first. Family comes first, but not at the expense of someone else's quality of life. Abuse is abuse no matter the reason behind it.

Just my experience. Hope it helps in some small way.

[roist]

Hawho

Your H is definitely trying in both senses of the term.

I won't argue with your view of too little too late. But there does seem to be efforts to reconnect/be normal with you. These seem to be more regular than before. I like that repeatedly you have noticed things are better than they have been.

Yes H is not acting ideally nor is it a great role model of parenting , couples nor family behavior. How will that affect your children? Idk. That is a long discussion that I need more time to reply but I share many of your previously given reasons for staying.

Although neither of ye are receptive at the moment, imagine that a year from now H becomes the man he was and does what it takes to rewin your heart. In such a case this is just a phase who's affect on your children will be negated by future positive interactions.

Even if reconciliation does not happen you should just look at this time as being a phase. It will end one way or another. You have grown tremendously and that will stand to you and your children regardless

On the net there are tonnes of pages describing the negative affects of D; n children. Maybe as Gingers story highlighted those affects are probably not as severe if the family/parents were dysfunctional. Maybe at this stage the shock of D would be less than in a household where the children were unaware of the dysfunction. I am sure there are still negative affects and D is not a phase!

I am against D but you have weathered what most people could never do. If you decide that you truly want it to end, you can hold your head up high. But you H: s slowly improving. Why not see where that leads? Whilst waiting to see how that develops expand your own life. Fill it with fun. Forget about h as much as possible. I know that is not easy with a live in mlcer but I know you can do it.

I will be back with further ramblings as your posts trigger many thoughts for me.

Best wishes

[bttrfly]

Hi Ha,
Thanks for dropping by. It's nice to be thought of :*

I have such mixed feelings about your sitch. As Roist has pointed out, your H has made some progress here and there. At the same time, I don't know how you stand it, I really don't. You are a very strong woman! God bless you, honey.

No one can really say what the right thing is for another's sitch - to stay, to go, to stop standing and when. Just know that regardless of what you decide to do, I admire your tenacity and calm in the face of what you've been living with. You have my utmost respect and prayers. xoxoxoxo

[Ginger1]

I'm not a divorce advocate either. But yes, the damage getting done needs to be weighed. Everyone's situation is different. For me, living with it I think did more damage than good. But if you think this is just a phase, well, that is something to consider.

Do you have open dialogue with your kids about how their father's behavior is affecting them? They seem to mention it in comments, not directly, but I can guarantee you that they are aware of everything. They may not want to mention anything to hurt you or their dad. My dad never spoke about my mother's absence while she was physically present.

When your S said "dad is in his room 99% of the time" did you open up that dialogue? When my mom hid away 99% of the time, it tore me up. I wish someone had asked me how that made me feel and really explained what was going on. I only understood as an adult when my dad finally explained it to me. he was always afraid of bad mouthing her, but there was so many things I didn't understand and I just made assumptions about.

I am not saying run out and get a D. There may be a point this phase isn't just a phase anymore and you may find you are done. But I really don't think staying for the boys ever will really be staying for the boys, because if a time that comes where you don't want to take it anymore, I am sure they don't want to take it either.

I do pray he snaps out of it and sees what a beautiful family he has right before him.

[Gordie]

HaWho, thinking about you and your strength as my w is now setting up her own dorm room in our house.

Ginger, you have given me a lot to think about. I too am always super wary of saying anything negative about my w to my children no matter how weird it gets but that too has a cost.

[HaWho]

Ginger - thank you so very much. Your perspective is very helpful. The quick answer is s13 and I do discuss the sitch. It is certainly leaving marks on him. How could it not? It has been going on so long now that this is now who his dad is to him. He can't remember who he was. And he asks me why I married this person. Of course I DID NOT marry this version of this person.

The complexity lies in the fact that s11 is scared to death of divorce. It's his worst nightmare. S13 is very intuitive and has mentioned this and worries for s11. S13 says d would break s11. They are such good, good kind boys. I am blessed.

Right now I don't know what to do. Having gone through my own depression, I know this can be a phase, like Roist says. And by the way, my own mom was depressed my whole life. She was withdrawn my whole childhood. (So, I know this whole phase thing may wear thin and may NOT just be a phase.) And yet, I always knew she loved me. I didn't feel as much hurt as my older sister did. I don't know why that would be. The point is: different kids are impacted differently.

Hi Heather! So nice to hear from you. You are an inspiration, as is Ginger! Two women who got themselves to higher ground and showed their kids strength.

Bttrfly and Gordie - thanks for the support. It means a lot. You two are weathering tough storms as well.

Roist - I do see the little steps forward. But my word is it a slow slog! I feel like saying something. Maybe he needs a little jab with a stick: "hey, you've been in this for 5 years, replay for 3, this dorm room for 2 1/2 and paranoid for a year. Any plans to wake up anytime soon??? If not, with all due respect, maybe it's time for you to go find yourself elsewhere?"

I have MLC updates I want to post for reference sake, but that's all I have for time. I will post more later today.