Infidelity/WAH, my story pt 10

[skyhigh]

I totally get as it's more easy to be detached while being away from them because while they are here even if we are detached we still need to control our emotions and reactions. Being detached doesn't stop us from anger or sorrow but like you said we learned on how not to act upon them and not to let them go further into our mind/heart.

It's obvious that your H is still very ambivalent in his behavior (texting other women, not really caring for you when you are not feeling well...), it doesn't care about the boundaries that you asked, and somehow you didn't really enforce them, so why do you want him to change? He has his cake and he can eat too. He is is nice for a few days when you catch him doing something "not nice or appropriate" then he goes back to his old way, it seems he just wants to make just to have his power back on you and then here he goes again. Sorry for the 4'X4'.

Now, it takes time for the MLCers to change but unless they show little by little but steady improvement, you should start to be concerned to his real will to commit to your relationship. If you had to assess his behavior/position now in regard of 4/5 months ago, what conclusions do you think you would come up with? Only you can answer that question?

In the past when your guts were telling you something, were they wrong or right? I have to admit my guts usually were right, but I dismissed them a lot until I decided to listen to them. What are those little red flags or those unseen feelings bothering you? Don't dismiss them, try to look at them with a rational mind, like a detective. Remember they lied to us, so even if you ask a question, don't take his answer as the "right" one. If you feel something is not right, you might be right.

Kids are very sensitive to the mood of their parents, I stayed at first for the kids after OW2 (I was done with him and kind of disgusted) and I stated my boundaries and the consequences in a very clear manner since he said he was going to change (I was more than skeptical and I had no trust at all). After a while, he showed that he was really changing and not going back to his old behavior (I was still very skeptical and experiencing those anger waves, still zero trust in him), then I decided to stay because his changes had positive effects on our relationship and the kids. Is everything perfect? No, but there are much better than the last 5/7 years. If he didn't have changed I would probably have filed, because living with somebody that is not respectful and you cannot trust, is not sustainable in the long run, it wears you down mentally, walking on egg shells and accepting "bad" behavior is not a good example for the kids, it brings down the road issues about self esteem and how you want to be treated. Remember kids model what they experience and see, so if one model is not "appropriate", it might become an issue very quickly and it's best to remove that negative model. Here again, only you can judge and assess your situation and how it might impact your family.

May be the best way, it's to give yourself a dateline and have a conversation about your expectations in a very clear manner, after that assess his reactions/words/decisions and decide what is the best for you. I know my H started to change (wake up call) only because he knew that I was done, really done and unless he was going to change for good not for a few months, I was going to file, I told him I had already a lawyer and everything set up... He couldn't manipulate me anymore with feelings, his power/influence on me was gone, I stood up for my dignity and my rights. Something in me was so determined that he understood that was for real and words were not going to work, only real changes and actions. That's just my story, each story is different.

Sometimes you need to be ready to let it go fully to have changes to happen and if they doh't happen it means that you are better without that person. Don't aim for less than what you deserve, always aim high.

Hope you, you are not too mad at me but I talked to you as my dear friends talked to me when I was in the "hole" of despair or didn't know what to do. They walked me through each steps, they didn't tell me what to do, they just open my eyes and my mind on little things and let me draw my own conclusions, they push me to brainstorm my feelings and my position on different subjects, they supported me through whatever my choices were (knowing it was my life and not their, even if they went though that ordeal too). They listened to me when I was exploring my options and they made sure that my critical thinking was on.

[PsySara]

Mad at you?Heck no, why would I be mad at someone offering gentle and loving guidance? I've read over your post a few times and let the words marinate in my head. I think I am surpassing detachment and sailing right on into apathy. lol! I am going through the motions but honestly have stopped feeling that "rush" whenever WH appears to be turning around. I just don't trust anything he does anymore. He's cake eating and I am trying to decide just how long I am willing to stand around waiting for him to wake up.

Thinking about D'ing him no longer brings the rush of panic. I can easily picture a future without him as my husband and aside from some sadness I am okay. The more I think about what he did the more I wonder if he is even capable of giving me the love I deserve? His inability (or unwillingness) to empathize with the amount of pain he has inflicted on me still sticks in my craw. He just really doesn't seem to get it. I am not sure he ever will. I ask myself if I divorced him tomorrow, what would it change? Well, the messes I clean up would me my own and the kids, I wouldn't feel resentful he doesn't pull his load around the house, and I wouldn't care who he is texting. In a lot of ways I would be free. So how do I enforce boundaries when I am unable to file for divorce right now?

It's tricky because we actually are getting on ok from day-to-day. We are affectionate, we joke, we go over the moving and logistics. He transferred a big sum of money into my account a few days ago while I was shopping for a puppy. But I feel this HUGE wall between us, I can't "connect" with him on a deep level. How can you when the person who has wounded you worse than any other human can't be bothered to read a book about boundaries, or attend a weekend intensive or go to MCing? I can't. Because he is saying with his actions that my feelings don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I fantasize about being with a man who treasures me and wants to talk about our feelings and needs. A man who is as eager to make me happy as I am him. But instead I am with the man who has a low emotional IQ and can't see past his own issues. Sigh.

[Cristy]

This weekend has been a blessing and a curse. Seeing my friend was sort of a pivotal point in my mind. His wife was by his bed (and has been for months now) and you can see the love between them. Of course I went back to the last 1.5 years while I was being hospitalized for my heart and WH's barely emotional presence during that time. I also started thinking about the fact that I am 40 years old, still have my looks and energy and how I am not sure if I want to gamble that away while waiting for WH to come around and be the husband I need. I am extremely close to becoming a WAS. I have even pictured sitting down with WH and telling him I am going to file and we need to start discussing the logistics of divorce. I am >thisclose< and only the thought of the pain it may cause the kids holds me back. Frankly I feel they are already experiencing pain from our dysfunctional marriage so it seems 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other. So talk to me, my friends. Tell me why I should not do this. I am just so exhausted from waiting on WH to show true, deep remorse. He still does not go to IC, will not go to MC, doesn't even read any books. He has poor boundaries and I have this deep feeling he will cheat again in the future because he has not examined and repaired what is wrong in him that makes him cheat.

Hello Sara,

I'm so sorry about your friend. I'm glad you were able to visit and reconnect with your "brothers"

Now would be a good time to reconnect with your DB Coach. It will be enormously helpful to get some clarity on your goals. Please call me at 303-444-7004 to schedule a session.

Regards,
Cristy


Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[skyhigh]

Just as a suggestion, I know it helps me it's to reread ...it brought some perspective on the phases/stages post replay stage and the length of each of them,

As LBS, we are so tired of that mess that we want the things to improve fast and also we have some kind of "expectations" how the MLCers should behave after they decided to stay. So reading again, those stages and the articles she wrote helps me to have a better understanding that the journey was far from being over and that my expectations didn't match reality. I had to review them, reviewing doesn't mean to lower them but it means that the path to reach them might be longer and different.

The MLCer is still very conflicted in his mind in that phase post replay and he has to grieve what he could have done, weird isn't it? Weird for us but reality for them, they have to realize that their dreams of freedom, new love and whatever they had in mind, won't materialize and they messed up instead.

I am not trying to excuse your H behavior in any way, I am just trying to provide you with tools to evaluate where your relationship stands. Tools are nice when you navigate that storm. They help to assess if the behavior can be connected to the post replay phase or not. Basically, if that MLCer is on the right path to recovery or not. Their way of thinking is not the same as the one we think it should be.

I totally share your frustration, I went through that, just a few months ago after some progress he went backward again for a few weeks then forward again. That journey is nerve wrecking. I was ready to give up so many times, so only you can know what's best for you and when. Whatever is your decision it should be yours only.

My H refused to do any kind of counseling but he is very open about his schedule, he keeps me aware of any changes, and a few other things, so I didn't get the counseling I was expecting but I got plenty of actions/changes from his part that are making feel respected, safe and cared for. Men are not really into words but rather into actions.

Keep venting it's good for you, venting helps to sort out whatever you have on your mind. I used to vent to a friend for one hour almost every day, not anymore but it helps to keep me sane and to make decisions or to defer some.

[PsySara]

Thank you for your in depth post, Sky, your words are always so helpful and soothing. It helped to read about your husband's willingness to give access to his life. Honestly if I asked for complete access to WH's phone, computer etc,., he would give it. But little things bother me, like he had a secret burner phone when he reignited the affair. I have this hopeless feeling that no matter how "transparent" he is it will never be enough after finding out easily he can sneak.

So I keep bumping back into this problem, can I forgive this man who hurt me more than any other person...twice?! What if I am not strong enough to overcome this? What if it's a deal breaker? I find such large amounts of resentment, rage, anger, hurt and disgust bubbling up. I find I can't feel respect for him. How can you love someone you can't respect?

This weekend I bought two French bulldogs for my kids, they are ecstatic. It's helped keep me focused on other things as WH has withdrawn again. He is snappy and distant, of course if I asked him about it he would deny. He went out for a motorcycle ride for a few hours and I had friends over to visit the new puppies. Again I feel this huge chasm between us. We are moving to the new house next weekend and it will likely be HUGELY stressful. I think I am going to wait until after the move to touch base with WH and ask what we're doing. He still doesn't say ILY, he doesn't show physical affection outside of sexual contact. He does text me more often, comes for lunch on his days off and eats dinner with the family. What's wrong with me? Why am I not jumping for joy?

[skyhigh]

Sarah, I think what you are experiencing right now with anger, resentment, rage, and... is a normal reaction, you are hitting your anger phase post replay. May be speaking with a IC might help you.

It's normal to have lost respect and trust in them after what they did, if we didn't we will be a fool. They need to earn them back by their actions. Meanwhile they are dealing with ambivalence. So the MLCer and the LBS are watching each other trying to decide "should I stay or should I go". That period is nerve wrecking, because nothing is happening, but somehow we need that phase where things are finally very quiet to sort out our feelings. the best way of dealing with that phase, is just to do nothing which is not easy.

Use that phase to focus on you and not him, let him sort out what he wants so hold on on any R conversation. That huge chasm is caused by ambivalence, there is nothing you can do about it, their silence and long periods of withdrawal are just the signs that they are having long conversations within themselves.

It's way to early to think about forgiveness, forgiveness is something you feel inside you that not something you force yourself into it. It's the end of a long personal process.

[leahsue]

Hey Sara, just checking on you! How are things going?

[PsySara]

Wow! I've been MIA recently, apologies to anyone still following my thread. So updates:

I've continued to just let go of the rope and detach from WH. He in turn became more withdrawn. I moved us into our new house and did 90% of all the work myself. After everything was unpacked and sorted I asked for a talk. WH and I have agreed to schedule talks ahead of time so the other doesn't feel blindsided. I straight up asked WH where we were in the state of our marriage. He said he loves me, even thinks he may be in love with me but he still feels he has to work at it every day. I told him I was feeling about done with us and that I was very unhappy with our marriage. I told him I still didn't feel like he was 100% in our marriage and that I can't feel safe with him. I told him I would probably start the divorce process at the end of the month. He showed no emotion and basically said it was my choice.

The next two days I felt relief and made it clear with WH I was done. Strangely enough he started approaching me and mentioning how much he appreciated me, how beautiful I am and how he was starting to realize what he was about to lose. I was laid back and easy with him, there just wasn't any pressure anymore. The more detached I became the more he pursued me. He started texting me, asking about m work day, spending time to talk with me. In short, speaking my LL which is Quality Time.

He doesn't know this but I have decided to hold off on the D proceedings. The jury is still out because I am looking for consistency but he has started to look at me differently since the whole A thing happened. I catch him looking at me when I am occupied, he will sometimes start to comment about how much he is starting to realize what he has in me but quickly catches himself and looks pained. I no longer react or watch his emotional barometer.

If I had a time machine and could do things all over again I would have detached much more effectively. I have come to realize that my desire to "make him get it" was really about my desire to have the illusion of control. The fact is, we can't control others, we have to let them make their own mistakes. We have to stop attaching our sense of worth and happiness off their opinions and screw ups. My WH cheated because deep down he does not have adult coping mechanisms. The other night he admitted he had an affair just to "feel happy" but it ended up making him feel worse. He tells me he barely thinks of the affair anymore, I told him it crosses my mind everyday. He says that's because I was so hurt and betrayed, he fully admitted he would never feel what I felt but that was impossible. All he could do was do better.

WH and I had lunch today. I find we joke a lot now, we don't have to fill our time with stuff. We don't have to struggle to understand every.single.thing about each other. We can just be. I still have ups and downs when something triggers me but I have learned to start self soothing. Will WH ever be part of that healing? I am not sure. For now I don't trust him with my heart yet. I may end up being one of those people who can't "get over" the affair. If so then I will simply move forward alone.

[BluWave]

Sara! I was thinking about you today and hoping you would come along. ... And where is that Cherry girl?

What a great update. You have come so, so far in this journey. I think you are right on target. You are so correct in that we cannot control others, but we grasp on to the illusion of control. You are detaching, learning to self soothe, and have decreased your expectations. So the natural consequence is that your H feels you slipping away, while simultaneously observing your strengths/growth. You and your story are the living example of what we try and get all the newcomers to see It is very hard to explain but eventually we all make sense of it to some extent.

I understand what you mean about the time machine. Isn't it human nature though to experience something and then want to go back to do it "better" or the "right way." While you can't do that, what you CAN do is keep reminding yourself what truly worked and what didn't. And by "worked" I don't mean what switched your pursuer/distancer dynamic, but what worked in achieving your personal goals. I have always admired the way you put your faults on the table and then challenge yourself to make changes. That is success (and very difficult).

It's hard to explain to people how things shift, the instincts we have about our partners, and how ones perspective can change over time. I find myself not knowing how to articulate points because so much of this is an energy that is hard to explain. I like the energy happening here in your world :-) I see so much good coming your way. I hope for his sake he can stay on a better path too. You have become the catch that only a FOOL would leave.

:-)
Blu

[Tobias]

I don't want to disclose too much about my real information but I am in Florida too.

I am in a similar situation although on a much shorter timeline. My WW just doesn't want to work on saving the marriage but hope she feels better about that. She too doesn't want to cut the cord to OM and says they are just friends now. I told her it's hard giving her space when I know this is going on.

I am not ready to call it quits but I cannot keep going on like this much longer. It doesn't help that she doesn't drive and we work at the same place. I think she really is trying but it's very hard to be patient when I know there is someone else involved. She says he isn't like a BF and cannot see him in that role.