25, do not waste your time on the Affair. To me, an affair is unacceptable. I will never condone it. And there is no excuses that will make it ok. You work on the marriage or you end the it, then you do whatever you want. If he was unhappy with things concerning you or your marriage, he could have talked to you about it. Another woman could not fix his marriage problem. If he wanted out of the marriage, all he had to do was walk out. You did not hold him hostage. You trusted him and he betrayed that trust. Don' t ever forget that. It was NOT because of you. It was because of his own foggy history and the justifications he needed to create and believe.
Reflection for you: ( yes, I have ask myself this question ): What do you think his reactions would have been if the tables were turned? Would he have accepted your behavior?
^^^ hard to answer right? why? because you would NOT put yourself in this situation and you could NOT betray your spouse and tear the family apart.
A wayward can be happy when they get what they want. I think we assume they can't but they can. Is FB real? Yes I think it can be.
We wish to believe it isn't happiness or its fake. Not necessasrily they can be ecstatic. Of course they can, an A partner can make a wayward happy.
They can be in limmerance and that can be lovely for them. It can be real too.
Making the LBS miserable can make the wayward happy too.
Frankly I think that's a good thing, the happier they are then the more they are deluded.
I personally don't like diagnosis by the self, so I am unsure googling anything to do with narc stuff is helpful. Only 2% of the population has these traits (apparantly) although the studies giving the stats are clinical. The stats are doubtful in my vieW.
It is by my actions you shall know me.
Happy or not the behaviour is truly rotten and those who do this are also behaving in a rotten way irrespective of their rotten core.
Waywards can be deluded and delusional.
Bragging on FB is at best bad manners and at worst idiotic.
Do I think happiness of the wayward matters? Not at all, not one jot. Does it matter if it crashes and burns? Does it matter if there is a sweet cycle?
What matters is what the LBS wants, the waywards happiness is irrelevant to that. Different circus and another's monkeys. Is it that if the Wayward is unhappy they will return repentant? I doubt that too. Will unhappiness want a wayward to return to an M they found unhappy?
Let the wayward be happy, then go be happy too.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
25, do not waste your time on the Affair. To me, an affair is unacceptable. I will never condone it. And there is no excuses that will make it ok.
Exquisite I'm not bogged down in the affair. I'm not asking at all why he is with OW.
There is so much more history in our long m that it's not "the reason' We are apart anyhow. She may have been an exiting factor but there are rifts within h and apparently in our m, that were starting to crack before OW came along.
Last January unbeknownst to me H had again started making plans for Alaska, 2.0 and didn't tell me until late April. He repeated the pleas to get me to join him again, just as he had before.
Insistent angry pleas at times...it was not Alaska that made me nuts, it was the manipulating behind my back and not disclosing to me, while I was job hunting in places to make h happy (low taxes, outdoorsy places, low cost of living and politically like h, and near a hospital but where I could get my law license ETC ETC like algebra!)
Knowing he watched me go thru ^^ this process while hiding $hit from me, yet expecting me to join him almost by force of circumstance like a fait accompli
THAT^^^ ate away at my soul
So while the flaunting of the A hurts to know, it's so crazy and so fast that I don't give it as much headspace as I might have otherwise, and I don't consider it "the reason" we are divorcing.
I guess I don't have a lot of hard fast "never acceptable" rules - unless you mean that no matter what the circumstance, you'd file for divorce in the event your rule was broken.
I filed for divorce b/c I was put in an impossible situation and no one factor determined this,
though emotionally speaking, it was his failure to have my back when I was really sick last fall, that clarified things for me.
It was when i awoke in the hospital with a lot of fears and saw friends and family (but no doctor h there), that I knew in my heart I could not age with him, or stay married to him. If I had to choose one thing, that is what clinched it for me.
You work on the marriage or you end the it, then you do whatever you want. but most people don't do this^^^. It's too hard.
If he was unhappy with things concerning you or your marriage, he could have talked to you about it. Another woman could not fix his marriage problem. If he wanted out of the marriage, all he had to do was walk out. You did not hold him hostage.
Exquisite ^^^ this was a 35 year marriage. Now you may not believe me but I don't think it's as cut and dried as you say. I filed for divorce, and h was surprised. I did not know of OW when I filed, btw.
Though I think he practically dared me to file, it's not what keeps me obsessing. I do not regret filing for D. I don't care much about the OW,
I simply mourn the loss of the m we once had long ago, and what I had hoped to have in our future, a future that would make the unrelenting sacrifices "all worth it"
I mourn the effects this is having and will have on our children, and their children and the generational fallout...
For now, usually, I am more focussed on my own part in this, in order to learn from it and to heal from it and to forgive myself and maybe someday to forgive h. Or at least let go of the self inflicted painful parts of this...
At this point I'm embracing what life has forced upon (or given) me,
b/c the alternative is despair, and I do not choose that.
Usually, not always but more often than not, the OW is a blip on my radar.
You trusted him and he betrayed that trust. Don' t ever forget that.
I appreciate the thought, but for me, I cannot live at peace thinking like that^^. I can't walk around "never forgetting" that.
He's the father of my children and though he has significant flaws, he has good traits too. Things I'll miss, including our history and our sense of humor and several areas in which we were very well suited.
But he mistreated me and he isn't trustworthy. I also believe he may be emotionally damaged and at least too much for this marriage to work out
That's ^^ usually enough for me to know. I think I will be a better partner b/c I will be more sure of myself and not have the nagging doubts I've had the past several years, off and on, and b/c I will dig when I'm not confident of what is going on. The way we did our first half, actually.
(I won't assume that silence or vague answers from my h means he's secretly planning a surprise anniversary party for me!!)
In my head I believe , (and my heart will catch up in time), I think that i'll have more authentic happiness and love in my life without h, than with. Definitely fewer let downs.
this^^ is what gives me the most reality based comfort.
It was NOT because of you. It was because of his own foggy history and the justifications he needed to create and believe. Understood.
H complained to others about things he never told me. This is called "Collusion" where you do more than vent to a friend, - which we all do-- but in which you continue to harp about something (this could be your boss or a co-worker) but you never tell the right target. Either you are merely a complainer who likes to whine, or you are trying to get buy-in from this audience member, for you to do something later...like leave...and yet act as if you had good reason.
H had complaints that were divorce worthy, Not big things and things that were fixable without me, (like saying I could do more housework...I mean, really? We have 3 kids, a huge house and acreage, so hire a housecleaner if need be, it's not like we couldn't afford it)
But what matters is that I cannot recall a single time H complained of a messy house to me.
But it apparently bugged him, or so he told himself & others, to justify whatever he was doing or planning. I guess I'm glad it wasn't a worse complaint...
Also some of his revisions are actually bold faced lies, but I think that h believes them. (This possibility - lies/vs convinced self of- , obsessed me for weeks).
My L said she thinks he believes what he says, b/c when she showed our tax returns to the court, H stared at the numbers as if he'd never seen them before...and h's L was shocked too. H's L denies knowing of other income...so, who knows??
It makes no substantive difference to me if he's lying and knows it, or lies and believes it. If it results in lousy behavior towards me, I no longer care what causes it.
I just can't spend more time in H's head though, you know?
I think I am locking myself out of h's head and locking him out of mine, b/c he's been taking up a lot of rental space in my head that I'm paying for.
Reflection for you: ( yes, I have ask myself this question ): What do you think his reactions would have been if the tables were turned? Would he have accepted your behavior? gosh, which behavior? I failed at things. I lost a job, I became addicted to painkillers & went thru rehab while pregnant.
I held grudges and resentments, and until I DB in 2007, I kept score...
So after spending a year of my life here, a decade ago, asking unanswerable questions about "why? WHY???" and being so hurt and so angry at h, I GAL and learned to detach, and it lead us back to another 10 years. I have mixed feelings about that, but don't want to waste too much time ruminating there.
H wasn't perfect, but I was not either. This is not all on him.
^^^ hard to answer right? why? because you would NOT put yourself in this situation and you could NOT betray your spouse and tear the family apart.
I rest my case..
Um, "rebuttal"
I almost had an affair 9 years into the marriage. I stopped myself, barely, but only after tremendous self reflection. IF I had that kind of temptation at other harder times in my m, I like to think I'd say no...
Although I do think A's are always wrong, I do not think they are all alike.
Remember, I don't see my m ending b/c of OW. So much more to it. Not all of which I'll likely ever know or understand. Not all of it must be fully comprehended as long as we accept what we must.
For me, the OW on FB was more like icing on the $hit cake.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I get your point about LBSers being happy and not caring about anything on the other's "side" of the equation.
We are all we control. (Sorry, I cannot say I hope he's happier with her, yet).
Plus I don't want our kids to think checking out emotionally is better than working things out and being honest and open about how we feel, even when it's hard.
But when I do let myself obsess fear/worry or think "OMG what if he IS happier??"
Well, On my healthier days, I say "25, the only thing you can do to 'up your score' is to control your side of this. Live Your life... b/c that lessens the piece of this that feels unfair." I know that h has mistreated ME and that's what matters to ME.
There is nothing I can do If he miraculously becomes the man he once was or who I always hoped he'd be...for HER... (statistically not likely but hey, who knows??)
The issues I had to work on were mostly resolved decades ago.
So I struggle with knowing I was a better wife the past 10+ years, I forgave more than I expected ever to be able to
and I "turned the other cheek", only to be here again now. (Like my other cheek got slapped.)
Vanilla, that's when I remember that what matters is that I was a better wife and that's a GOOD THING ---
and h wasn't very good to me the past X time (I vary in my estimate) and that's over now. H cannot mistreat me anymore once this D is final.
And that's what matters most.
I'm getting there, I really am.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
H cannot mistreat me anymore once this D is final.
There have been several times in which I have read comments addressed to someone hoping to reconcile, like me, in which the writer says "There are two divorces, the legal divorce and the emotional divorce." The implication being, of course, that the paperwork doesn't matter and there may still be a chance to fix their situation.
H can mistreat you with a D or no D...if you allow it. You and I both know I'm no expert on this stuff, but despite all the crazy bull$hit going on in his head, you guys still have a connection (to some degree) which means he can still hurt you if you're not careful. Like facebook posts. Or one of your kids mentions something he did. Stupid $hít, right? But I'm sure it will $uck regardless.
W and I both made independent decisions to shut off facebook in January. It was a nice tool to keep in touch with people, but given the current circumstances I have zero interest in it. Honestly, I really don't miss it. You can't insulate yourself from life, but there are probably some steps you could take to avoid some unnecessary bull$hít. Just a thought, hang in there!
Last edited by Cadet; 04/21/1711:59 AM. Reason: language
I hear you, I think. So to rephrase. I will prevent him harming me to the extent a human with our history and children, can.
I've minimized incoming stimuli as best I can. I blocked h's fb and I had never looked at his page once he left for Alaska.
I have referred him to our L's for every financial demand he has made, which is costly in the short run. He is a poor negotiator, with an all or nothing approach to it. He assumes I want it all -whereas he wants me to get pretty much the minimum allowed by law. (At least, so far. Maybe that will change so we can both get on with our lives)
The first court hearing h showed up, but I did not need to be there.
The temporary support hearing went my way and infuriated h. He threatened to quit THE GREATEST JOB EVER, to avoid paying. His L told us that. H never communicated about money sent or when, not even by text.
So I got a wage garnishment then, which also bothered him, and the next week he was posting on fb that he's in a relationship.
Were the events^^ Connected? Who knows?? Who cares?
At the moment I can chuckle at that. No one who is normal and happily in a real r, posts like that -ever. The way I see h now, is the most valuable asset I have.
Yes we did have an amazing connection for a long time and his bff reminded me the other day that yes it was a beautiful thing to witness, it was real and that means a lot. I don't want to belabor the point but I it helps me to remember. It was not all a fraud, and I don't have to see every joy of our past with new pain now. I care about him as the father of my children & assume I always will.
But I see him as someone else now. An atheist for one. That's a big change for me to see and it hurt my "Soulmate" image of h. Anyway
Would public news of a pending marriage to OW bother me? Of course.
under the circumstances it's less gut wrenching. Why?
Because I work hard on cognitive self awareness, & I am wise enough to know that no healthy reflective person would date so fast, and marry the first person they date, and so quickly, and after a long long marriage.
It's so cliched and unaware, that I think i'm lucky to be out of target range. I felt lucky to not have to meet h's expectations today, for the first time. I just felt relief...not loss.
I know I'll back slide & miss something or feel overlooked and forgotten, but today I'm going to remember this feeling...of being better off Really I'm just learning not to take his acts so personally. I want him out of my head and heart as soon as possible.
I started to see a therapist in my new area today, and I'm blessed to have had 2 excellent ones first in CA and now here.
Plus the cute guy flirting happened at such a perfect time.
Yes, it was a Lucky day folks
Today was a lucky day!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
You are ahead in so many area 25. You are blessed with knowledge. You already know that your feelings are totally normal. You know what to expect of yourself and this alone is golden. Remember the stages? I do not know what to tell you that could help you.all i can do is read your words as if i am lending an hear to a very dear friend. You are one amazing woman!! Keep it up!
