25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D

[Vanilla]

Hatred is anger in action, sort of black anger.

Hatred is a body state and can include rage and disgust. Sometimes it's appropriate. Actions are a choice, we can self soothe Hatred to disgust. States can change, mainly we can only hold one state at a time so Hatred can move by going being active.

It can be useful if it moves one to action.

I think we miss loads from our history and it was as it was. If it is useful now, (such as D fins or in other practical ways) then it's necessary. Otherwise the future ex is a jerk and a gaslighted when being wayward and deceptive. That's as useful as finding them loving and sweet. Hate is very close to love. And you can hate the behaviour but love the sinner.

I suggest you observe it and don't absorb, a technique proposed by Ross Rosenberg. In the end self compassion is most important thing.

Personally, I convert these things to cartoons in my heart and head and it helps in the moment. Suppressing is even worse, acknowledge handle and observe. I think it's ok if you are passing through, not great to live in hate.

It's just a part. It's early days.

V

[Cadet]

They're forever tainted because they violated their vows. Some choose to stay anyway and live with the tainted R. I did....for the time being at least.

I think you could maybe say the same thing about being divorced.
DB is about learning how to love again.

[sandi2]

With time you can "get over" a cheating spouse but things will never really be the same. We'll tell you they will be to keep hope alive for you but the reality is it isn't. It'll never be the same once one of the spouses cheats. They're forever tainted because they violated their vows. Some choose to stay anyway and live with the tainted R. I did....for the time being at least.

I hope this is just your opinion, Tex. To me, it doesn't sound as if you have gotten over it. If you see your W as being forever tainted, maybe you have not be able to fully forgive her? It bothers me that you see yourself living with a tainted R. You say it will never be the same. In what way has your MR changed and you've accepted the idea of it never being the same again? I'm pretty sure I remember reading posts where you said you and your W were doing great, happy, etc. Was this not true?

I'm not saying you are wrong to feel what you feel. I don't know if I could be the betrayed and be able to have a healthy mindset toward my H. As being the recipient of forgiveness, I can honestly say that I live every day in the grace of that forgiveness. If my H, or anyone in my family, looked through their eyes and did not see the woman I have been throughout my lifetime.......and only saw me as forever tainted.............I'm not sure how I would cope, although, I'm pretty sure it would destroy any hope of having joy again.........and after that, I don't know what I would do.

I believe when Jesus forgives, He makes me white as snow. The consequences of my sins may not be washed away, but I have the assurance (according to scripture) that He does not see me as a "tainted woman". Just as He forgave the woman at the well (who was living with a man who was not her H), He forgives me. That is my spiritual belief and faith.

I know I caused more hurt and disappointment than I could ever repair on my own. I have to live with that knowledge every day for the rest of my life. I am extremely blessed to have a family who believes in forgiveness and healing.

It hurt to see your post, Tex. Not for me, but for you and your W. She does not have the power to undo what happened, and there is nothing she can do to earn your forgiveness and remove the tainted rags you see when you think of her.

I have seen LBH's focus on nothing but getting back their WW. After the reconciliation, it may be sooner or later.........he goes though anger, resentment, (maybe a sense of self-righteousness) or feelings such as you are experiencing. Did you and your W attend therapy in healing after an affair? If not, would you consider it?

Yes, we try to offer hope for those who come here. For me, it is not false hope. Why would we stick around if we did not believe there was hope after an affair?

Sorry for the hijack, 25.

[25yearsmlc]

Sandi

I like the hijack for a couple reasons. I journaled here about feeling hatred for h. Not saying it's a feeling that will remain.

I seriously doubt it but I'm processing my emotions out loud here. It's helpful to my process. I won't hate h, but I see him with a "shaking my head" kind of pity and disregard. He has had little contact with our children, which is just cowardly.

I'll be seeing a new T starting tomorrow (getting my car today, thank God).

Yes I do see my h differently now b/c of the OW -- or rather, the deceit involved.
and the way he's behaving toward me is simply dishonorable.

If h really had started seeing her right after I filed (his story is that he met her, the DAY after I "suddenly filed for divorce", as if he was hurt, shocked, etc)

I would just see him as a man who cannot be alone. But knowing of the lies and silence of lies...ugh.


I FEAR that our m was not what I thought it was, much more than I feared that before.

I feel shame that I could be such a fool, that things were not as I believed and WTF is wrong with me not to see?! This is something I'll explore in T.

The mental movies that create sick feelings in the pit of my stomach about h and OW, are not as bad as the marital revisions I've done, (which I must not keep doing.)

Again, it's a process for me. And I will get to the other side.

Hearing your process Sandi, and how you feel and see things years later, is immensely helpful to me.

What were my "best case scenarios"?? NOT SURE...if you had asked me a few months ago, I'd have said "EITHER, healing, discovering things about myself, exploring the world as a single adult woman, which I've never been..."

OR
that
"h REALLY gets it and h feels deep remorse (to show that he gets it, not b/c I want him in pain) and gets T & good help to cope with all his weirdnesses and unresolved issues and his disloyalty AND finally really appreciates my love..."

Even as I write this^^^ I know that the odds of h doings this^^ are nearly 0.

Even if he regrets his behavior-or thinks he's ruined the family, I'd never hear about it -- too much pride.

At Retrovaille his moment of clarity was powerful and very painful for him. But it was that moment that showed me, "H gets it". No need for me to add on. Problem solved..but it was not solved.

In retrospect his remorse was short lived b/c it's SO incompatible with how he sees himself.

After all, If h is a great man, (which has to be a given or he will crumple) he would not have hurt his family and therefore, it did not happen or it's someone else's fault.

And Now that secrets are coming out, events are seen in a new darker light,
and I see our marriage differently.


This^^ deeply troubles me.

Sometimes I think it's better not to know how many lies there were.

IF h were to want to reconcile (no folks, I'm not holding my breath) then maybe the lies would need revealing but I'm not even sure of that.

I will need some sort of "non crap" relationship with him for the kids events, but that's not for today.

[25yearsmlc]

Tex

I hope you'll take in Sandi's post and reflect on it.

I DO get what you mean, obviously. If h were to magically become the man I thought he was and became a mature fully authentic man

it would still take real work for me to see him fully, and through God's eyes. That would be my goal I suppose. Assuming the above work by h, I think I could see him as worthy of loving and as a flawed man.

But not the man I thought he was, for sure. H has surprised/disappointed me a lot this past decade...and there must be a reason our children tell me that they are "proud" of me for filing.

Think about that...ugh.

Maybe your goal could be to see your w as a flawed, deeply worthy woman. And to see yourself the same way, b/c owning your role in her A is a challenge.

Sometimes I think the biggest piece of the LBSers work when there are OPs

is to accept that although the A was wrong, the LBSer played a role in the spouses choice.

While it is possible for a solid marriage to suddenly, spontaneously have a wayward spouse due to issues only within one partner, it's darn rare.

And if it was an issue in her only, AND if she is working on resolution of that issue,

then what?

[Sotto]

Yes I struggled with the duplicity too, and friends have said the same. In my situation, XH booked airline tickets to go visit OW the following week. Then came home for the weekend and said nothing. We had a nice family lunch with some friends and then he left for his work commute as usual on the Monday - again saying nothing.

Truly, I just don't think he was able to handle being honest face to face and he ended up emailing to say he had been having an A. Weakness and fear.

In your situation, I had to SMH at your H meeting his 'Honey' the day after you filed for D 'out of the blue' - really?? It is a shame that so many people jump into a new R straight away - or in my case before - closing the door and healing from their former R - ugh..

Anyway - rant over - from all that you post I have every confidence that you will get through this situation with as much grace as you can muster and move forward with peace in your heart.

As you have kids and a long marriage, hopefully things will settle and you guys will ultimately be able to interact and link as needed..

You're doing so well, given all circumstances, and happier times truly lie ahead..

Xx

[sandi2]

I feel shame that I could be such a fool, that things were not as I believed and WTF is wrong with me not to see?! This is something I'll explore in T.

Why do you see yourself as being a fool? B/c H lied and deceived you? B/c you feel you should have been smarter or quicker in seeing the truth?

In all my resentment, and other forms of anger, I don't remember thinking of my H as a fool for not catching on to my affair sooner. In fact, I believed his complete trust in me was hiding the truth much better than my attempts of covering my affair. I am ashamed, but will admit, that I knew I was taking full advantage of his trust.

I was such a kid when we married. We both were kids. Never had been with anyone else, and trusted each other completely, I would have told everyone there was no way on earth either of us would ever cheat. I think with some couples, the line of trust becomes blurred with taking the MR for granted......and they stop trying to fill the EN of each other.

It mostly seems like a very bad dream to me. I could give dozens of excuses, including the way the doctors were really messing with my medication. I was placed on four prescriptions of anti-depressants.............and then taken off (cold turkey) all of them at once. My poor mother "chose" to believe that was the only way her moral & religious daughter could ever cheat in her M. However, I know how I felt toward my H a long time before the prescriptions.......and I take responsibility for my actions.

Anyway, back to you feeling like a fool, maybe this is a natural reaction to learning you have been deceived by the one who is suppose to love you the most. If this person had been someone else connected in some other way.......your intelligence and keen intuition would have alerted you. Please don't beat yourself up for trusting the man you married. ((25)). That is what we are taught to do. That is the vows that were made.

I doubt your H will show any outward signs of regretting his choices as long as he is running wild in his waywardness. You mentioned pride. My lord how I had so much pride. I think it could have driven me out of town, and away from my family, if my H had decided to "expose" me before the world (b/c I had not repented from my wayward behavior). Not saying everyone else shouldn't either, just stating how I think it would have affected me at that time. Pride was my biggest hinderence in apologizing, humbly, to my H. As a rational person can clearly see, I had nothing in myself to warrant pride. I had a wayward mindset, and that type of mindset needs to experience remorse and humility.

My dear 25, I sincerely pray for your family's healing, and especially for you. I have witnessed the pain that adultery causes. My children suffered (and one still suffers) the result of a divorce from a cheating spouse. For me, that is as close as personally experiencing the pain of a LBS, ..........b/c as parents, we take on some of the pain of our children. Every day, I see the pain and it breaks my heart. However, I have not been in those LBS' shoes and I realize I don't really know the feeling of betrayal by the one I married. I am so sorry this terrible experience has come into your life. No matter how strong you are, when pain comes.........you still feel it. So, continue to talk about it, or whatever it takes to get you to a better place.

I marvel how helpful you continue to be for others, and in spite of your pain.......you do not sound bitter in your positive & supporting posts on threads of board members. You have always given wonderful advice, and the first thing I noticed in your thread........is how you give yourself the same brand of advice. That our 25!

[180Man]

You mentioned pride. My lord how I had so much pride.

Sandi, would you mind writing a little bit more on pride for all of us? How prideful of a person would you say you were before the A ever happened? Did that increase after the A started? You mentioned remorse and humility, what did that process look like for you? Hope I'm not opening old wounds, I'm just curious and I thought others might be as well.

I marvel how helpful you continue to be for others, and in spite of your pain.......you do not sound bitter in your positive & supporting posts on threads of board members. You have always given wonderful advice, and the first thing I noticed in your thread........is how you give yourself the same brand of advice. That our 25!

She has been amazing! I wish she weren't going through all of this again and I don't know how she is able to help others so well while she's going through her own hell. She's a really remarkable woman from everything I've seen! Hang in there!

[Coly23]

25, funnily enough (well not so funny), I was posting on my thread the exact same thing about not being sure if the M/R was really ever happy and if I made it all up in my head.

I feel like I'm starting to believe him in that he never really loved me. I keep thinking back to situations and realising that maybe I was wanting to see what I wanted and covering things up that didn't suit me at the time. I think maybe we did an excellent job of it though as everyone thought we were the happiest and best suited couple. It just feels like all smoke and mirrors now....

[25yearsmlc]

25, funnily enough (well not so funny), I was posting on my thread the exact same thing about not being sure if the M/R was really ever happy and if I made it all up in my head.

I feel like I'm starting to believe him in that he never really loved me.

though I know h & I were happy (I can safely say, I THINK, for the first 20-25 yrs), I can only deal with so much marital revisions. I hear that h told others "this was coming for a long time", (news to me, and I have examples of behavior and comments that were the opposite, but here in DB land, I don't need to prove my case)...

but of course it hurts and it undermines your self trust. You wonder if you are nearly as clued in as you thought. In my case, there were moments of silence or vagueness in h's answers that should have alerted me to dig deeper.

His avoidance of a topic and his silence, never indicated something good. (Nope, he's not planning a surprise party for our anniversary!! He's hiding another secret plan about money or a plan to return to the tundra...his freaking obsession is irrational, and you're married to a truly selfish, strange man with tremendous capacity for long term deceit...) Nope, didn't want to know that.

Coly, I heard a TED talk or NPR from a Vietnamese refugee man discussing how his family fled in 1975 AND how his culture has no subjunctive terms, no "would have/should/could have", and as a result it seems they ruminate less.

This was amazing to me. He gives talks about the implications of this simple grammatical reality. I highly recommend it.

Maybe you can stop yourself from going into the "Dark subjunctive" too much, b/c really what is the point? "What should you have known, what could you have done and what would have happened then??"

How stupid you were to believe? That your D16 was born into a fraud?



I keep thinking back to situations and realising that maybe I was wanting to see what I wanted and covering things up that didn't suit me at the time.

it's fair to examine this^^^ if your goal is to learn from it. Don't let it undermine the parts that gave you joy.

I struggle with this, b/c I want to be able to see photos --like of the kids, e.g. skiing even if h is in the picture (not doing this today, mind you, but someday)

and I don't want to let h's present behavior steal those joys from me too.

There's enough loss already


I think maybe we did an excellent job of it though as everyone thought we were the happiest and best suited couple. It just feels like all smoke and mirrors now....

maybe your h should go to Hollywood if he's that good of an actor...

or maybe his feelings changed and he's justifying crap behavior by extensive marital revision