One week to be divorced... and counting

[25yearsmlc]

This is likely to be an issue that carries forward for you into the future. I am sure you will get lots of different opinions on this. Perhaps I'm in a different situation because my H doesn't want to see the kids much or want custody at all. We have no agreement on particular times and probably never will.

That said, rather than my own hurt and my own pain, I try to think about the kids. Is what she is proposing hurting the kids? Have they voiced concerns about deviations from the plan? I think it is one thing to put the kids in the middle by making them decide and another to try to be flexible and just see how they adapt. At some point you may have greater needs for your own flexibility.

Wouldn't the kids benefit the most by seeing two parents who put their own stuff aside and work as partners in raising them? Kudos to both of you for wanting to be there and to have your time with the kids!

They do have an agreement in place. The D decree merely cements it.

The way I read his original question is not about the kids welfare now, so much as wondering about changing the divorce agreement at the 11th hour,

to say that no changes can ever be made. Good luck getting through this week!

[Ripe]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences, especially you, betterman.
That was what I was looking for.
Our agreements are written, but not in stone.
At least this is how I have approached them, and so has STBXW.
Miss Opportunity and I have been very flexible and, I think, we will continue to be in the future.
I had some fog around my head and could not see clearly, but you are right, Ownit, the question to be asked every single time is: is it hurting my kids?

[bigybiz]

I don't mean to hi jack but 25MLC brings up control and that's a hot button issue for many of us - me too.

If Ripe wants to stick to the agreement as laid out how is that controlling?

I agree that if anyone wants flexibility with the other side they have to offer it. If they don't want it why is that controlling? I would ask the question that if someone is too available for the other side to live their new life - are we not being doormats?

[Dawgs]

to say that no changes can ever be made.

Good luck getting that to fly in a courtroom...

[MoveFrwd]

I don't mean to hi jack but 25MLC brings up control and that's a hot button issue for many of us - me too.

If Ripe wants to stick to the agreement as laid out how is that controlling?

I agree that if anyone wants flexibility with the other side they have to offer it. If they don't want it why is that controlling? I would ask the question that if someone is too available for the other side to live their new life - are we not being doormats?

I dont want to speak for 25years, but the way I understand it, Ripe has deviated from the schedule in multiple occasions in the past and admittedly with acceptable results.

I dont have an issue to sticking to the agreement as written if it's done consistently. But to reference this document only in certain occasions comes off as controlling to me.

For me, my ex and I have a very clear schedule about who has what days on childcare. If I get asked for a switch or to watch the kids extra, then I look at my schedule and decide. Sometimes, it's fine and sometimes Im busy. In this instance, Ripe wanted to use what his W was going to do with the time as his judgment criteria for whether to take the kids; I think thats not a great way to proceed - her time is her time. Focus on what YOU want out of what you can control with your time.

[25yearsmlc]

I don't mean to hi jack but 25MLC brings up control and that's a hot button issue for many of us - me too.
[b]
If Ripe wants to stick to the agreement they wrote together, and as laid out how is that controlling?


In and of itself, it's not. Please read below.


I agree that if anyone wants flexibility with the other side they have to offer it. If they don't want it why is that controlling?


I did not read Ripe's post as meaning he wanted "no" flexibility.

Imo, someone who is talking about children as opposed to a bank accounts, would probably need some flexibility. I just think that comes with the whole parenting challenge.

Both parents want to attend big events even if the events don't land on that parent's days, or a grandparent gets sick, or a parent does, etc...and yes, I think that's best for the kids as well.



I would ask the question that if someone is too available for the other side to live their new life - are we not being doormats?[/b]

"Too available for the other to live their new life....= being doormats..." ??

I'm not sure what this^^ stems from. In general, my reaction to a statement like that would be

Not to worry about what your former spouse is doing.

Stay out of the WAS's sandbox and live your own life, in your sandbox, well.

Spend as much time with your kids as possible.
To me, Being flexible isn't being a doormat.


Due to the thread title and Ripe's question, I took it to be him asking us whether he should change the D decree in the 11th hour, which made no sense to me.

Plus, I don't know if Ripe's ex w would say he's controlling or angry, etc.

Which is why I asked him, and her views matter for several reasons.

But especially
if Ripe holds out hope for someday reconciling, (which happens after divorce, too)

He doesn't need to fuel her negatives and no, being a doormat is not what I'm suggesting.

The divorce decree only incorporates & reflects an agreement Ripe and his xw already made. In that agreement, Ripe & she share custody half and half.

Ripe,

If your real question is whether you should SAY something to her, yes I'd totally agree with.
Can you simply talk to her about it?

Maybe Tell her you are "fine with the switches so far" (b/c complaining about a past switch that you agreed to at the time, will Not help you now)

but you are "just concerned about it happening too often in the future, for her sake, especially the kids sake"

AND b/c YOU are GAL and need more notice, etc. Say that with a PMA

She will react, but you can validate her reply that you both " need to be flexible, and she asked you, etc" and then just gently remind her that sure, you get that,

but you are planning your GAL in advance and "some flexibility is of course fine, on a case by case basis"

Then maybe ask her something neutral like about her family or job, etc.

End the conversation first. Not abruptly but Because you are busy living your life well and need to get back to it, etc.

In other words, Can you See this as an opportunity?

[Ripe]

I have to say I was also considering one different aspect of the issue: are all these changes in their schedule positive for the kids?
I would like to know at the beginning of each day in which pillow I would lay my bed in the afternoon.
It's the kids, not us, who have to change their homes week after week.
Has anyone given a thought about this?

[bigybiz]

Ripe:

I think most of us have wrestled with such issues. If you find your agreement is flawed and need to change it at the 11th hour and/or you've had some kind of change that will impact the arrangement i.e. work hours, etc. Then yes, change it before it's formalized. Or ask for a 6 month trial - where you can see how it works with a formal day to review. If you don't have a hard date for the review - it may not happen. Be prepared for the other side to have revisions, etc too.

I personally think it's best for the kids if their schedule is the same no matter what. Even if it is more difficult for the parents. Consistency is king. So they knew that next week, next month, etc what bed they will wake up in and when.

I have some comments regarding the previous reply by 25MLC, Roist and others. I'll pick those up on my thread.

[25yearsmlc]

I have to say I was also considering one different aspect of the issue: are all these changes in their schedule positive for the kids?
I would like to know at the beginning of each day in which pillow I would lay my bed in the afternoon.
It's the kids, not us, who have to change their homes week after week.
Has anyone given a thought about this?

YES I have. I just helped you express those concerns to your w in a far more productive way

When I used to argue with h about some things "For the kids" or b/c of my concepts of fairness,
1) SOMETIMES i used a shield of "The welfare of the children" to advance my own issues, my own anger & wanting to remind him of the pain he caused. I did not want him to feel "off the hook"

Other than not always having the purest of motives, it also

2) NEVER worked. Any guilt or remorse he may have felt, was converted into blaming ME for turning kids against him

OR quibbling about small things to create drama or b/c I "like to make him look bad".

(I'm ashamed to admit there was some truth in that. Things that bothered me a lot, often were barely noticed by the kids. I'm not completely sure why i made those such big deals).

But EVEN when I was honestly trying to help the kids, his reaction often led the kids to look to ME as the trouble maker.

I really think you can use this as the opportunity I suggested or some other positive way of getting her buy in, to a gentle boundary reminder.

You don't seem satisfied with that type of interaction. So I'm just cautioning you based on what I've seen here and my own experience,

falling on your sword for what many would see as reasonable (the examples you used of her switching a day or two and always paying them back and so far, always having reasons you supported,

well I think it could backfire...

but good luck.

Are you still at all interested in someday being open to Recon?

And as for the kids - do not underestimate the value of Kids seeing you GAL and being at peace.

Something my DB coach that helped me was to

Lose the Parental Tone/Voice with a WAS.

Because everyone including a WAS has an inner voice/moral compass

when we use our parental voice with our spouses, it shuts down their inner voice.

The more you challenge her choices, the more she defends them, etc.

Sure, calmly gently speak to her about keeping things stable for the kids.
I asked you to say it in a constructive tone.
I think it'll be far more effective than falling on your sword to denounce her as if she is not caring about the kids.

My suggestions that you set the boundaries in a fun GAL way, would achieve 2 purposes with no down sides.
You'd set a boundary she'd be more receptive to AND you would add a little air of mystery with your upbeat CHANGED attitude.

And it's not going to escalate, correct?

How can this be a bad thing?

[25yearsmlc]

the Written agreement says what he wants it to say. There is no need to change the D agreement itself.

He and his wife have informally agreed to changes in the past. THAT is the issue.

I had another thought Ripe, are you just trying to delay signing?

I'm a L and I'm not giving you legal advice but I sure would like to know your Legal reasoning...


IF your wife breaches the divorce decree, Ripe can move to hold her in contempt or ask the judge to enforce it by not letting her go on a trip, or move a day, etc. (which is a pricey nuclear weapon to use and which you may regret later. Surely there may come a time when YOU might need a return favor)...

OR YOU CAN TALK TO HER....like 2 adults and work something out. That was the point of my earlier post.


[quote=bigybiz]Ripe:

I think most of us have wrestled with such issues. If you find your agreement is flawed

it's not the agreement. It's their VERBAL & mutually agreed upon Changes that are now troubling him.

===

I personally think it's best for the kids if their schedule is the same no matter what.

"No matter what"??

My mother died on my my brother's ex wife's week. The ex wife had their girls, and she lives in another state. She drove their daughters 7 hours, for the whole week of the funeral, got them new dresses and stayed at a friends while the daughters stayed with my brother.

Yes, they changed the schedule. When my former SIL was in a serious car accident, and again when she flew out of state for a job interview, they allowed their children's schedule to be flexible.

I THINK every div decree i've seen has allowed for "modifications with the express consent of both parties."

Ripe I must not understand your question. On one hand, no I don't think you concerns at PRESENT are worth arguing, and I don't think you are setting a LEGAL precedent by agreeing to a one day thing, now and then. I urged you to choose your battles wisely.

Secondly, IF they are worth arguing, or if you feel strongly about it - then all I'm saying is that you can raise the issue is a more effective way than what I'm picking up on.

Don't get egged on or let anyone (including me) project our situations onto yours.

Good luck