WAS vs MLC..not sure it really makes a difference

[25yearsmlc]

listen to him carefully, and re-cap what he says so you know you are understanding him, not reacting in fear or lashing out.

You do not need to decide or agree with him on everything. You are allowed to say you will need time to process things.

True, you just told him you wanted a decision, but I doubt he'll press you for a response immediately. Regardless, you do Not NEED to answer him with a ready reaction --- and being angry will absolutely not help you.

Do you believe your conversation tonight needs to be better than today's? If so, act accordingly.

Just hear him out.

[skm0619]

25yearsmlc......thank you for all of your words of wisdom, it really does mean a lot to me that you are taking the time to "help" me through all of this. I especially liked when you said "try not to borrow trouble from tomorrow."

Yes, it was a hard lesson to learn that something very simple like telling him thank you could have made all of the difference. I have read the 5 love languages and of course mine is quality time, and H was words of affirmation. We both didn't do well with that....I wanted more of his time, and he wanted more loving words from me. Definitely something I am working on in all of my relationships.

Do I believe that our next conversation needs to be better then the last? Yes, and I need to make sure I don't get any digs or jabs in, or say something that doesn't need to be said. And of course, learn to listen. I read something that said "listen and silent are spelled with the same words" ..... I am learning

I ended up keeping myself busy so I wouldn't sit around and "wait" for the call. It was almost 10pm when he did call and I was a bit annoyed that it was so late, so I didn't answer the phone, plus I was driving when he called. He left a message saying "I know it is late, but I wanted to call and continue our conversation from earlier, but it may be too late to talk, I'll call you again tomorrow and maybe we can chat. Hope you have a good day, see ya."

I texted him back and told a little fib. I told him I couldn't talk cause I was at the movies Honestly, I felt a bit annoyed that he waited so long and I didn't want my attitude to carry over into our conversation. He said "I'll call you tomorrow. I have a headache and am going to bed. Enjoy your movie" Told him sorry he had a headache and hope that he got some sleep.

So, I came home and walked the dogs, and now I am going to bed cause I am mentally exhausted, and also cause I worked 5 very long and very busy 12 hour shifts in the ICU, and I need to turn my brain off

[25yearsmlc]

25yearsmlc......thank you for all of your words of wisdom, it really does mean a lot to me that you are taking the time to "help" me through all of this. I especially liked when you said "try not to borrow trouble from tomorrow."

Yes, it was a hard lesson to learn that something very simple like telling him thank you could have made all of the difference. I have read the 5 love languages and of course mine is quality time, and H was words of affirmation. We both didn't do well with that....I wanted more of his time, and he wanted more loving words from me. Definitely something I am working on in all of my relationships.

Do I believe that our next conversation needs to be better then the last? Yes, and I need to make sure I don't get any digs or jabs in, or say something that doesn't need to be said. And of course, learn to listen.


how do you feel you handled it, given that you refused the call? I mean, if you knew you couldn't manage to talk without expressing anger, then you were "right" not to take the call.

But if you really want to reconcile with this man, the anger must be handled and I don't mean handled by expressing it to him every time you two connect.

Sometimes we want to reconcile b/c we don't want to be the rejected party, we want to "win." Sometimes it's very hard to know what is truly in our hearts.

Dig deep.



I read something that said "listen and silent are spelled with the same words" ..... I am learning

I ended up keeping myself busy so I wouldn't sit around and "wait" for the call. It was almost 10pm when he did call and I was a bit annoyed that it was so late, so I didn't answer the phone,

does any of this^^ seem like you punished him? You "showed him" that you won't be treated this way, even though it's exactly what he promised to do. He's in a no win situation. My guess is that he had to work up to making the call, btw.


plus I was driving when he called. He left a message saying "I know it is late, but I wanted to call and continue our conversation from earlier, but it may be too late to talk, I'll call you again tomorrow and maybe we can chat. Hope you have a good day, see ya."

I texted him back and told a little fib. I told him I couldn't talk cause I was at the movies Honestly, I felt a bit annoyed that he waited so long and I didn't want my attitude to carry over into our conversation. He said "I'll call you tomorrow. I have a headache and am going to bed. Enjoy your movie" Told him sorry he had a headache and hope that he got some sleep.

So, I came home and walked the dogs, and now I am going to bed cause I am mentally exhausted, and also cause I worked 5 very long and very busy 12 hour shifts in the ICU, and I need to turn my brain off

How will you handle it if he calls again? What if he doesn't call? I'm just asking if you'll be angry either way?

Are you talking to someone? I am a huge proponent of working through our negative emotions and not carrying them around. 10+ years ago I had an epiphany.

I realized that I thought I was "right" to be angry and sad about my h's behaviors and choices. (And I probably was).

But sadness and anger were consuming ME, not him. It didn't matter if I was right. Every time I expressed those emotions, it fueled his negatives and he ran harder and farther. And it made me miserable inside and to be around.

And it kept me from changing ME, which I needed to do for me...and for my kids, actually.

This^^ sounds obvious. But until we grasp it and say it and believe it, we hold onto our anger too much. At our own peril.

"When you hold onto anger to punish someone else,

it's like lighting ourselves on fire,


to get smoke in their eyes."


Hope this ^^ makes sense.

Decide what type of R you want with this man, as he is. Not how you wish him to be.

And if it's recon you want, you probably need to adjust your views & behaviors don't you think?

But IF it's not reconciliation,

then you can forge ahead without his involvement, can't you?

[skm0619]

25yearsmlc.......you are absolutely right about everything you have said to me, and all of it makes total sense.

I will say that I was worried I might get upset with him last night and that was why I didn't answer the phone. Now, I may not hear from him today, or ever again, and if that is the case then that is another hard lesson for me to learn.

In the beginning I had so much anger towards him it was unbelievable, and it was pretty scary at times. I have been talking to someone about this and working at it daily. Initially I felt that the anger was coming from a place of hurt, but now the anger is coming from somewhere else and I am trying to figure that out. I see so much of my father in me when I let myself get to that point.....and that is something I never liked about my dad.

This is not about winning for me. I knew from the moment I met this man that I wanted to marry him. I was 38 years old when we got married (my first marriage) and I would tell him "I waited a very long time for you" and I wanted to be with him forever.

I know that during our marriage there were times when it was more important for me to be right....no question about that. I also know I have control issues. I have apologized to H for those times, and I also apologized to him for feeling like he couldn't talk to me about how he was feeling because of how I would react.

I know he is working on himself and doing the best he can, and I need to be okay with that, and if I am not, then I need to really let my M and him go.

All I can do moving forward is do the very hard work of working on me and learn how to improve myself. I know I need to change because I don't like who I have allowed myself to become.

[25yearsmlc]

this^^ is a brave post. Well done.

((( )))

[skyhigh]

Great advice 23yearsmlc!

Hope your day was fine?

One day at the time, MLC is a journey, a traumatic one. So be gentle with yourself, we all made/make/will made mistakes, the most important is to understand why we made them and what we can do to avoid to repeat them. Also, since that a journey, look at it more as a step by step process, do no try to project to far away in the future. Meanwhile keep yourself busy with activities that fulfill you with some happiness. Enjoy some good endorphins, you need them.

Don't let that anger take over your life, try to find an outlet for it!
yoga
talking with a friend
writing
exercising
praying
IC...

[skm0619]

I just don't know how much longer I can do this......

I know that when you ask the question "how much longer can a person do this" usually means you still aren't ready. But, I am so tired of sitting around and not being able to make some decisions about my life because I am still tied to my H. Now I know he called me the other night and I didn't answer because I was worried about how I would react. He said he would call again but of course did not. I kind of expected that. I remember him telling me that he lacks courage when it comes to speaking with me. I can not help him with that.....he is going to have to figure that out on his own.

I called him today and he was of course at a friend's house. This is someone who made his life very easy for him when he was kicked out after BD. He lived with him for 3 months, never paid rent, utilities or anything. He just lived it up.

He said he would call me on his drive home, and I said "you wont, but okay" we sat there in silence and then he said "I'll talk to you later" and I just hung up.

I had a good day out of the house. Took the dogs for a long walk down by the lake, and looked at some places that I am thinking about moving into. But as I thought about my life moving forward I feel stuck in certain ways. I want to sell my house. I need to get out of here, but in order to do that I need to have a conversation with H about it (he is on the mortgage). I feel stuck because I can not detach.

I know that calling him is what has changed me mood, but I just need some answers. This has been going on since November 2015.

I can feel the anger just building up inside of me.

I'm angry because he cheated on me and only thought about himself and not how this would effect me
I'm angry that he walked away from me...not once, not twice but three times
I am angry that he never tried to make this work
I am angry that he never signed the divorce papers
I am angry that he continues to live his life like none of this ever happened, and with no regard for my feelings
I am angry that HE wont file for D
I am angry that he lacks courage

But what I am most angry about is how I continue to let him effect me this way.

When is this ever going to end........

[roist]

I am sorry you feel stuck. That is not a good place to be. Most times I felt stuck, when I looked at it closely, I figured out I had put barriers in my own path. I thought it was the situation but actually there were choices I didn't make.

What specifically are you stuck with? As for the house, if you feel you want/need to sell it, take steps towards that. One of those will involve H but there are surely other steps you can take alone . Why is discussing this with H such a big deal? If your life, a better life is at the other side of the house sale, then this will need to be done sooner or later.

Best wishes

[skm0619]

Roist.....

I feel stuck in several ways

-I feel like I can not detach and that keeps me in this painful, emotional place I have been in for a while
-I continue to have expectations and that also keeps me in this same place
-I also am saying one thing and doing another, and that definitely is not helping me

Like you, I am putting barriers up in my own path. I am the one making the decisions in my life....no one else. So I need to start making better choices....ones that will benefit me.

Yes, selling the house would be a good thing for me. I know he is surprised I want to sell it (he told me so). He asked me "what made you want to sell the house" and I told him that it is not easy coming home everyday to a place that has so many memories in it. He said he understood. We did discuss selling the house, and he asked me if there was anything he could do to help me with that process.

We had a good conversation last night about many things. He again told me that he continues to lack courage when it comes to me. He also mentioned that he is learning that his behaviors in the past and in our M, has likely been a result of being controlled by his parents growing up, and how he learned to deal with that was by avoiding his feelings and emotions (something he did very well in our M).

I asked him if he was happy with where things were right now. He said he feels free of a lot of "baggage" meaning that he feels a weight lifted off of him because he has realized things about himself, is acknowledging them, and is continuing to make changes. I told him I was very proud of him because that is not any easy thing to do.

We didn't speak about our current relationship or D. I mentioned a conversation that I had with a friend who asked me why I wasn't divorced. I told them that getting a D is not a priority for me right now, and that I am continuing to work on myself. After I made that comment he then said "yes, that is where I am, I am still working on me." I am trying not to read into that comment....but it is hard.

We agreed to meet tonight for dinner. We need to discuss taxes and I'm sure other things will come up. We both did A LOT of talking last night, so tonight my plan is to listen.

One day at a time......

[skm0619]

One other thing I wanted to mention was that he admitted that he is struggling pretty badly financially. I know this is a result of all his spending that comes along with the MLC. He has maxed out 2 credit cards and another one is almost maxed as well. His rent is my mortgage payment, and his truck payment is ridiculously high..but he just HAD to have that truck after he was kicked out.

He owns his own business and is supposed to pay taxes quarterly. He only paid a small portion of taxes for 2016. When we filed taxes in 2106 (for 2015) we did it jointly but the tax person estimated how much each of us would be getting back because she knew we were separating. The total amount went into my bank account.

I received a small portion of the return. H got back approximately 10K. He says he was going to use that money for his 2016 taxes. He asked me last night what happened with the tax return money and I told him it was in the bank. He asked me if there was any way he could get that money. Since he only paid a small portion for 2016 he needs to pay the rest that he owes before he can file in 2017, and he can only do that if he is given the money from 2015.

Now.....the hurt spouse, the betrayed spouse, the one who wants him to suffer says "don't give him that money because he is only going to use it to pay off all his bills he racked up during this MLC and then rack up more bills" and "this is the man who told you that he didn't love you, and says he wants nothing to do with you, and doesn't ever want to see you or the dogs again, and blamed you for the A" and "he knew he was going to have to pay taxes for 2016, he should have accounted for that"

What to do......