The excitement of what if

[Zues126]

What's the real difference between feelings and beliefs?

Beliefs to me are things like:

Marriage is forever.

We aren't here to judge our spouse or our marriage based on they or it is doing for us, but rather to challenge ourselves to be the best partner we can be for our spouse. This is one of our primary purposes in our lives.

We are here to find appreciation in what we have been given.

We are here to be the best parents we can be, to help teach our kids to celebrate their time on this planet, develop their gifts, and help them develop their own beliefs that will guide them through their lives.

It is important to use the gifts we have and do the best we can at what we do.

We should live in a way such that if everyone on the planet duplicated our behavior the world would be a little nicer, not a little more savage.

These are just some of my beliefs, on top of many that are outlined in our classic religions (10 commandments, etc.)

Feelings to me are things that are about what we want or don't want:

I deserve better than this in a relationship so I'm going to leave.

I should get to do what I want to do every day instead of this job so I'm going to quit and pursue my dreams and not worry about what this might do for my family.

I have more fun watching football and drinking beer than hanging out with my kids so I'll stay at the bar tonight.

I don't feel like practicing or working hard so I'll just do the minimum and not care what the results look like.

I'm not happy with what life has given me so I'm not going to enjoy any of it because I deserved so much better.

OK, so I'm not giving this any thought or proofreading, this is just shooting from the hip. My point is that I have no problem recognizing and listening to feelings to see what they have to say, but to allow them to direct your life in a way that runs contrary to underlying beliefs seems very destructive to me. And while some beliefs might evolve (being the best at what you do, for example, maybe you try your best at work when you're an adult instead of your choir when you are a kid, or being the best parent you can be can evolve as you try to navigate through different challenges) the underlying themes can remain constant. And some, like not divorcing or murdering, are very rigid.

For example, most people have the belief that marriage should be based on fidelity. But if your partner cheats, there are some that would be willing to overlook that belief and work on their marriage because they have feelings of love for their cheating spouse. Or because they do not want to feel grief or loss.

I have the belief that marriage should be based on fidelity. That belief is for ME. *I* won't cheat. If my partner cheats, yes, I will have some difficult decisions to make. But my partner violating one of my beliefs is about them, not about me. I would then have to act in accordance with my beliefs to determine how I felt I should respond. This can be tough as they can conflict, for example my belief that marriage is permanent would be an argument to stay, whereas the belief of doing what's best to provide for my children could be more murky as they would benefit from both mom and dad but not from a poor model of marriage or demonstrating to them an acceptance of ongoing disrespect or infidelity. In that situation, though, I think making emotional decisions is destructive, that instead we have to let our emotions have their say, but then calm down and try to interpret what course of action best fits with all beliefs. Some are more priority than others. In the end we're not perfect but we can strive to do our best rather than reacting to our emotions and rationalizing the path of least resistance.

But I'm gonna stand up for feelings. Feelings and emotions are what makes us alive. They inspire great art and literature. They are the reasons why jokes are funny. Feelings are what drives us to succeed or win or work for change. They ensure protection and survival of our children. Hey, they make sex better. Why are you knocking feelings?

Feelings are great, they are what makes us who we are, they are the spice of life. I just think they are a lousy compass for our lives in many ways. Our beliefs come first. How we spend our leisure time, what kind of movie we want to watch, what food to order, what book to read, etc, those are great decisions to guide with feelings. Whether to stay married or divorce, whether to quit your job or keep working, whether to focus on your spouse's behavior or on yours, these are things where they don't serve as well.

My perception is that most of the destruction in our culture comes from people elevating their feelings and entitlement to personal happiness above the beliefs that used to hold our society together.

So, like anything else, the key is balance. Feelings are fine in balance, just like a beer, or a bowl of icecream, or a binge netflix session. But what can be done can be overdone. Even this beliefs rant could be overdone if it interfered with the joy we have for our life or festered resentment in the rest of humanity for being human. I've seen that too and try to avoid that as that would be paradoxically against my belief that life is for celebration. But in the end I don't think this is the direction we are out of balance these days.

Just my thoughts though J, murky at times in my mind so definitely not cast in stone and probably expressed a little clumsily. Oh well, if I waited to make this post perfect it would never happen so let's just submit and move on...;)

[Rouky]

Hi JujuB just checking how you are and if you are still doing your positive thinking.

Hope you are well.

[JujuB]

Hello Rouky, thanks for checking in.

You know what my fear of positive thinking is? Its that I wont be able to see the truth. I will be looking at things with rose colored glasses and fail to see and address an issue that really needs addressing. Its like I use that negativity and fear to act.

But thats not really a good thing. Sometimes, I might be creating issues and acting upon issues that are not there. And sometimes the negative thinking simply breeds negativity.

I agree with you in that I do need the positivity to help balance my life.

I have tried hypnotherapy. I am not sure what else to do. Exercise and spring might help. I might need to get professional help. I feel down and heavy and I am learning that one has to actively work on positivity.

But anyway, here are some positives in my life.

1. I am on my way to getting better help for my son. Each appointment, each evaluation moves me forward to finding more help and answers. I feel proud that I am educated and that I am a good advocate.

2. I like my job and I have some further options when things get settled.

3. I have a supportive family

[JujuB]

Zues

I agree with these core sets of beliefs you describe.

I think that for me, (1) I am comfortable with negative feelings, therefore it is easy for me to ignore them in order to do what is right. I guess, i have a high tolerance for dysfunction. (2) i recognize that we are doomed regardless of whether we are married or not, so why not follow our committments (to me the commitment is really what I based my actions on (3) i grew up with strict consequences, and thus have always avoided irresponsibility. I have never been the type to go chasing after flowers.

Not what your getting at, I know.

What I am working on is recognizing that it doesnt have to be doom and gloom. And that I do need to live in a way where I am appreciating what i do have.

[JujuB]

Some other thoughts...

My beliefs about marriage and people in general made dbing very hard for me. I was not able to be a friend, as was recommended. I believed that husbands actions were deplorable and not friendship worthy. I disagreed with him and while I tried to understand his perspective, I couldnt. I lashed out and continue to lash out with passive aggressive comments. He was recently being friendly, but I am in such disagreement with him on ending the marriage that I responded with a subtly offensive comment regarding how children are not as resilient to divorce as some like to claim. And why? Because I believe, no because I know that I am right.

Many on here take a higher role. They seek to forgive. They hide their anger, their resentment, their frusturation. Their spouses were committing the ultimate betrayals and they were able to swallow that "s. Sandwich". I just couldn't let go of my beliefs of marriage and committment and how people in a relationship should act.

I wanted to be right, instead of doing what would work to get my spouse back.

Now in many ways I was right. I absolutely had to get child support. I don't regret taking him to court. That one action (recommended by a lawyer) protected me in so many ways beyond money but it also made ex furious.

A part of me does wonder if doing anything I could to save the marriage (giving up pride, being that friend, being soft with someone that did not deserve it ) would have been ultimately worth it.

On one hand, we could have built a loving relationship. Eventually, I suspect he could have become devoted again and at that point we could have worked on our issues.

On the other hand, he could have left again when life became difficult.

There's also a good chance that he just wanted out and is happier now. Although he doesn't seem happy.

Maybe I am being fooled though and he is hiding a girlfriend till after our divorce settlement.

From what I am gathering now, my case seems to be more one of financial infidelity. But who knows. Everything was a secret. And still is.

I kind of envy those of you. Most of you who actually know what they were up against. I never had that. So it was always speculation for me, instead of hard facts. I am still trying to get those hard facts.


Sorry for the rambling.

[Dawgs]

kind of envy those of you. Most of you who actually know what they were up against. I never had that. So it was always speculation for me, instead of hard facts. I am still trying to get those hard facts.

I'm right there with you. I never got those facts. Never.

[doodler]

A part of me does wonder if doing anything I could to save the marriage (giving up pride, being that friend, being soft with someone that did not deserve it ) would have been ultimately worth it.

JujuB,

I'm not terribly keen on friending the wayward spouse back into the marriage because, in my opinion, it just sets-up the opportunity for a repeat and I'm not going through that sh*t again.

I don't think my XW could ever come back to me. Not because she wouldn't come back, but because I've changed so much that she couldn't come back. I wouldn't tolerate much of the stuff that she foisted on me in the past. I'm typically a very tolerant and easy-going guy, but my XW would have to walk on eggshells in order to regain my trust. I don't want either of us to have to walk on eggshells, so I see no possibility of reconciliation because I've changed so much. The doormat is gone.

[trumpet]

A part of me does wonder if doing anything I could to save the marriage (giving up pride, being that friend, being soft with someone that did not deserve it ) would have been ultimately worth it.

JujuB,

I'm not terribly keen on friending the wayward spouse back into the marriage because, in my opinion, it just sets-up the opportunity for a repeat and I'm not going through that sh*t again.

I don't think my XW could ever come back to me. Not because she wouldn't come back, but because I've changed so much that she couldn't come back. I wouldn't tolerate much of the stuff that she foisted on me in the past. I'm typically a very tolerant and easy-going guy, but my XW would have to walk on eggshells in order to regain my trust. I don't want either of us to have to walk on eggshells, so I see no possibility of reconciliation because I've changed so much. The doormat is gone.

I feel the exact same way.

I put up with such disrespect from her, for so long. It was a learned behavior from her mother. Her father puts up with so much from my EX-MIL, he's a saint to me and to others.

I just don't see EX ever having the capability to walk on those eggshells and go through the war of rebuilding the massive trust she destroyed. She doesn't have it in her.

If she does, more power to her. But just like you, I don't want to walk on eggshells. There are other fish in the sea. And I really like who I am becoming. A gentler, kinder, empathetic, interesting, and more fit Trumpet. I like myself again.

[Dawgs]

If she does, more power to her. But just like you, I don't want to walk on eggshells. There are other fish in the sea. And I really like who I am becoming. A gentler, kinder, empathetic, interesting, and more fit Trumpet. I like myself again.

Me too. Me too.

[JujuB]

I think the facts certainly would have helped with a sense of closure. Instead we dont really know what exactly we are mad at other then them leaving.