A WW? (7)

[ForGump]

LT -- wow. Sounds really difficult. Makes me think of the first few months after my BD when my W wouldn't even make eye contact. I'm relieved to be far past it, now at an amicable place.

Your W obviously has a ton of negative feelings about you, and she believes you're not a very good Dad. And yet she doesn't want to get a divorce for the sake of your daughter. She wants to stay in this angry, in-house-separation with someone she despises.

Not to go too far in trying to mind-read, but ... can you understand WHY she's stuck in this weird middle ground? Why can't she either attempt to reconcile with you or leave the marriage? Is she afraid of being divorced?

[lt0402]

Yeah, it's almost like we've never progressed from that point FG. We've had quiet times where the resentment wasn't outright, but it's probably just been bubbling under the surface.

She seems to have nothing but negative feelings for me at this point. I find myself wondering if she feels like I'm her jailer now, keeping her from freedom and limiting her options to just this one. She doesn't seem to realize that she also has a choice. I think the fact that I'm unwilling to do less than 50/50 with my D is what is keeping her from making that choice. I'm not sure why she ever thought I wouldn't want 50/50 w/ D. Without her being able to execute an exit that ends in her perfect view of things, she seems unwilling to make that choice. But if she's staying, she also is unwilling to even attempt any sort of R. Unsure where to go from here.

I don't think she's afraid of being D. I believe that she thinks it solves all her issues. It certainly allows her to scapegoat me for everything that's been wrong. I've listened to her, especially since we had the house conversation 1.5 weeks ago, ascribe alot of the work that's been done on the house to her efforts. Very specific stuff that I know I did, she now says she did it all, alone. I've not pointed this out to her, as I know it's not constructive, but it does make me question what's going on inside her head with "our story".

I feel like i know why she can't exit, but i've no clue why she won't attempt to R. Best guess is there's just too much resentment for her to overcome. Realistically, it may be that if she warms up and stops making me the scapegoat, she's then forced to face her own issues. Mind reading, but all i've got to work with currently. Bleh...

[cheesyt]

LT, sounds rough. Your stitch has just been rough and doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.
Hang in there man, something’s gotta give.

[lt0402]

Thanks cheesyt. Easy to get lost in this thing at times. Feel a little like a compass without a needle currently. Probably highlights i need to put my focus back on myself and my D. Was just lurking in your thread as well. Sorry for the stuff you're going through as well. Keep your chin up and hang in too. I've no doubt we'll get through this!

[hawker]

I think we are all in the same boat...me a little further along...LT I don't know how you don't lose your cool!!! I want to yell at your W through the screen!!!! :-)

Hang in there friends!

[ForGump]

LT-- you do indeed seem stuck. What does your IC advise to get out of this purgatory? Have you tried DB coaches (sorry if I forgot). What do they advise? This doesn't sound like a sustainable situation to me. At some point you have to take into account what it's doing to your daughter's emotional health, as well as your own. I was stuck at one point too, and my IC recommended that I take charge of my fate by proposing a timeline to my W, i.e., "if we are unable to resolve our differences, let's divorce by next summer." My IC thought that my W would actually find that kind of take-charge leadership refreshing, and would prompt her to take a fresh new look at her own feelings. Ultimately I didn't have to do that because certain circumstances outside of our control dictated a pause to our D and then once that crisis was over my W went ahead and filed.

Anyway, I feel for you, man. You're only 37. Not to minimize your situation at all -- I feel like we've both been through hell -- but that's a relatively young age. You have a lot to look forward to, with or without your current wife. I wish you a healthy future.

[lt0402]

Some quick journaling. Realized this morning that I'd forgotten to pickup some tile from Lowe's that we need to finish up our MBR bathroom remodel. Sent W this note:

Me: "Good morning <insert my nickname for W here>. When are the guys coming to do our grout? The tile had slipped my mind."

W: "WTF? Stop calling me that."

W: "Today. That's why I told you twice last weekend to pick up the tile. I will fix it myself. I also told you last night when D was getting ready for bed."

Me: "Will head out of here for a few, grab some tile, and drop them off. Need to get my wallet anyway."

W: "It's too late I would rather you did not"

W then called and said she'd been telling me for 3 weeks that this needed to be done. I listened, let her vent, and offered that I had thought she was having the grout people install the tile. She said, no, that was never the plan and she was going to put it in. I said that's a large project, she said no it's not and hung up. First, we didn't know about the missing tile until we ripped out the vanity 1.5 weeks ago. Second, she did tell me that the grout guys were putting the tile in. At this point, I'm not as open to questioning my remembrance of things as I remember this quite clearly.

Had to get my wallet, as I needed my ID for something today, so swung by the house. Got to say hi to D before school, which was a great bonus.

When D was upstairs brushing her teeth, I told W "I dropped the ball on the tile. I'm sorry for not getting it. This is going to be a big project" and honestly meant it. It had been on my list of things to do, but somehow it'd slipped off. No excuses, took ownership.

W was obviously perturbed by my forgetting and said: "Big picture, this is the main problem. You never do what you say you're going to do. You've done this 2 to 3 times now in the past few weeks." Then she went into not wanting to talk about it right now bc she didn't want to yell in front of D and then she walked off.

Thought that was useful feedback from her. I'd known that was an issue in the past, but did not believe it to still be. Could be that she's just grasping this opportunity to berate me. I don't have a clue what other 1 or 2 times I've forgotten something I said I'd do in the past few weeks though. I'm fairly proficient at creating task lists now, as I've worked hard to fix this aspect of my issues.

This comment has forced me to do some introspection though. There ARE two things I've said I'd do throughout this that I have not. One is that I told her last month I was coming up w/ a budget, but so far I've not found time to put pen to paper. The second is that I told her I'd only go back into our M if she agree to do MC with the goal of working on bettering our M. The first is easily fixable. I'm going to find time this week to put that together.

The second, however, is more nuanced. She wanted to go back to the MC from before. That was a disaster and she was not a friend of our M. I've also been putting this off bc I don't believe anything comes of it so long as she's unwilling (as she is telling me now) to work on our M. I think the way to address this is to sit her down and tell her exactly that, or to find a new MC and go. Probably leaning towards telling her why I have yet to find an MC and get her feedback.

Regardless, W seems like she's at a point where she's as un-invested in bettering this thing as she's ever been. IC had offered that w/ me challenging her w/ the "this situation is not sustainable" and "I can see you are unhappy, as am I" type of dialogue the reaction would be her pushing me further away. Almost as a defense mechanism. Does not feel like a defense mechanism as I live the spew, however, but maybe I'm just too deep into this thing. Really just feels like pure hatred coming from her. I think the thing that bothers me the most is she's not even willing to invest the smallest bit of effort in this to see where it goes.

So, none of this is unexpected. Trying to keep an unbiased third person view of things, but it's tough. Have my IC again tomorrow, so his take will be interesting.

FG, thank you brother. It's funny, but 37 seems so old to me at this point! But you're right, we both have many years ahead of us to thrive after this thing.

IC has recommended turning up the heat on the situation to see how it moves. I agree with him and that's what I've been leveraging the house conversation to do. Effectively force a dialogue on getting my thoughts out there about how we can't do this forever. The path it seems to be progressing down is, however, the one that ends with us further apart. We've also discussed a timeline, but haven't quite gotten that far yet. I have asked her in conversation, "what happens when our 1yr rental is up?" and haven't gotten any response to it.

My IC, also thinks that taking charge of the situation may help my W as I've never been that forceful w/ her in the past. He thinks it'd help w/ her anxiety levels, as it'd make me an ally against it. One comment she's said was "I need to know where I'm going to be living in a month" when I haven't responded quickly enough to the rent/own question. Her anxiety, I would believe, is driving that questioning.

FG, I think we both have a healthy and happy future on the horizon. It's just getting through this damn storm right now. Tough to see your way out, but when the clouds part and the skies clear it's got to be refreshing. I know that'll come for us at some point, but being where we are currently sure does suck.

Hang in there brother! You'll be good, your kids will be good, I know it!

Hawk, there was a commercial awhile back. There's a football referee and he's being berated on the sidelines by a coach and he just is staring off into space, cool as a cucumber. The announcer is saying, "wow folks, I don't know how he can take this beating!". Then it cuts to the ref at home, sitting on the couch, eating doritos (i think) and watching tv. Same calm/composed look on his face. the camera zooms out and you see his wife berating him for something and he's just tuning it out.

Long story short, I feel like that's the training I'm getting here. Leveraging my work experience to help as well. But man is it hard at times. Sometimes you just feel like you need to fire back, but it never seems to help things, it only seems to push her further away. Stay strong Hawk and thank you for the comments!

[Cristy]

Hello lt0402,

The good news is that you know how to take care of these repairs and upgrades!

You have worked with a DB Coach previously, right? It sounds like it is time to reconnect with your coach so you can regroup based on your current situation.

Please give me a call at 303-444-7004 and we can look at the schedule.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[mvgfwd2]

There is only one way to rebuild trust. Do what you say you will do. Every time, no excuses, no partially doing it. Just keep your word 100%. So be careful to only commit to what you will do. And be mindful that anything less until the relationship is on good footing puts you back at square one no matter how far you've come.

[Zues126]

My opinions are just that, they are not necessarily DB. But I would do two things.

First, I would handle myself beyond reproach. If she asks you not to call her a nickname, don't do it. If you say you are going to do something, do it. If you aren't sure you can keep a commitment, don't make it. Telling her something you think she wants to hear won't change her feelings towards you, she'll be skeptical you won't do it and then angry when you fall through. Bottom line, run a tight darn ship. She'll still spew, but at least then you'll know you don't deserve it and she deep down might as well.

Secondly, stop with the R talks. I hear your IC, I just don't agree. What's the point of having an R talk about things not being sustainable? This is more words, not actions. She knows you don't like things how they are, she obviously doesn't give a hoot. So what happens after you have your R talk about things not being sustainable, what happens when you have your talk about not wanting to go to marital counseling unless conditions are met she's not willing to meet? What then? If you won't do anything differently anyway there is no point as she's just going to blow you off and you're going to look weak. If you WILL take different action such as filing or changing your behvior, just go ahead and file or change your darn behavior! Speak to her with actions, not words, and don't take those actions until you are doing them for you, not to try to control her.

It's not always easy, but it sure looks clear to me. Live in a way that you would if you knew she wasn't coming back to the marriage. Hopefully the man you'd choose to be would still be one that could attract her back and maybe there is a new R between you two in the future. But putting your eggs in that basket or trying to steer her in that direction won't work. Time to move forward and not look back to see if she's following. That doesn't necessarily mean filing, although it might. It doesn't mean buying a new place necessarily, although it might. It just means moving forward with your life. Your life isn't your legal status or where you live. Your live is how you live it.