Help - Setting Boundaries, WW in EA - Thread #3

[Woke_Up]

Friday: when I got back, she asked me how I was. I said not the best, but I was calm. W told me that she would end it, that she wasn't going to leave for someone she had never met, she just needed to pick a day and I would need to take her devices off her. I said how about now, but W said she wasn't ready yet.

I told her that I had deleted the filthy message off her phone, and she said that that was what she didn't like, that I kept going weird and invading her privacy.

However, soon after she she started telling me that she thought I would go back to how I was, I would start being a [censored] again, that I never spoke to her, that I never had, etc. By the end I said it sounded like she had already talked herself out of it. She said she hadn't, so I just said ok, wished her goodnight, and left her room, went to bed and tried to sleep.

Saturday; D's birthday - had a great party for her with plenty of her school friends, kept me busy in the morning, and was a good time. Tried not to let things prey on my mind too much, but it was a struggle. Anyway, Saturday is well documented in my earlier post.

Sunday: Trapped into a rage fest... W asked me an innocuous sounding question 'What was I going to do with my inheritance'. I'm waiting on the sale of a house from my deceased aunt to proceed - it's not a lot of money, split 3 ways with my brothers, the house is in a really poor part of the country. Anyway, I said I would pay my tax, as I hadn't managed to save enough over the last 2 years. That was apparently the wrong answer. I was accused of being dishonest, of just saving the money (which is true, but I just used savings to pay this year's tax bill, so I want to replenish it) - Somehow I'm selfish and only thinking about what I can get for myself.

Then it degenerated into random accusations, stuff from the past, - I don't want to repeat exactly what it was, but it was enough to make me flip out as she insinuated I'd be happy to see my daughter harmed due to my previous political views (which incidentally, she is wrong on, but memory is selective) - we did have a lot of arguments last year about what was happening to the country and to Europe in general.

She also started saying that I had no right to invade her stuff, that she had found and read the leaflet on boundaries that I had printed out and that I should learn to respect them, that I was not to touch her things, she would put locks on the door, that I wasn't to hack her (not actually 'hacked' her for a long time). That I shouldn't have deleted things from her phone, stuff that she wanted to keep, that she would just have to ask for more. I said she was sick. I also sent another message to OM at this point, I was quite angry.

There was also a lot of stuff about the house, I said the wrong thing again (You/the kids don't need such a big house, if we split up we need 2 smaller houses) - etc etc. Stupid, I know. She accused me of being exactly like her father, that was what he had said. Different circumstances. Definitely wrong thing to say though.

There was also stuff about me 'stealing her bed, her room, her bathroom' again, and that she wouldn't go no contact with OM while I was stealing her bed. I just told her that if that was her bed, she should point out to me where my bed was, as I couldn't think of another one that was mine...

All in all - it was a rage build up & release. I think back to Surfers posts to me early on. Drama triangle stuff, verbal abuse and rage build ups and pay offs. It fits.

She was a lot calmer Sunday night. Almost as if it hadn't happened. I have no idea or the necessary skills with how to deal with these moments. She said she was lonely, and that she was a sad person, when I asked why. I said I was also lonely at the moment. She said I didn't talk to her - I told her it was difficult in the circumstances. She then asked a strange question - she asked me to put her off the OM - point out his flaws etc. I said she shouldn't really be asking me, that it was a bit inappropriate, but she asked 'why?' and to help her. I ran through what I saw as the defects in the EAP.

Monday: Morning, W & I talked some more and again said she was going to get rid of her EAP, but that he would try and get her back - he had contacted her through twitter last time she had blocked him. That I would have to have her phones and reply to him if he got in touch saying it was me. She showed me some message she had sent - saying that I had contacted again, but exaggerating the content. Telling her I had said I was going to beat his a$$...

I hadn't, I actually asked him what would his parents think about him sending disgusting messages to another man's wife. WW thought this was really funny when I told her. Especially as he is nearly 30. Then again, he lives in a trailer on his parents property, I think, so I guess what they think may be important... He'd also said he would kill me if I ever came to Florida, that I better not go on his property. I guess threatening to tell mom & pop riled him up

Later, W asked me to pick up a valentines card for me from her when I was out shopping with D, and some flowers would be nice. She asked this in front of the kids. So basically I bought 3 cards... one for me from her, one for her from me, and 1 that D liked. I also bought the damn flowers, I was also buying some for SS16 to give to his girlfriend, and a single stem that D5 picked out for herself - one of those printed multicoloured roses.

W put the flowers in water that night.

Tuesday, valentines day: W wrote out a card for me (mind you didn't put her name in it, probably in case I sent a photo to OM). In the card she said I was sexy and that she loved me.

I wrote her a card from D5, and got D5 to sign it.

I went out to pick up a few things from a shop later, for her Grandma's birthday (yes, I am still running her errands), and got on the phone to DB to book some coaching. First session on Saturday. I hope I can get some privacy away from W & kids.

I didn't give her her card..... until I [censored] relented at about 10PM.

I tried to speak to her about stuff. She only wanted to talk about her Botox and how she wasn't happy with the results. I told her it had been a difficult day, after being told on Monday that she would get rid of the EAP, and then her not doing it again. I asked if she wanted help to do it, but she said she would do it on her own. She told me I should relax!!!!! Anyway, I said I appreciated her giving me a valentines card and reaching out to me, and then told her I had left her card in her room.

We also ended up ML. (I know, the disapproval is palpable)

I am back at square 1. This is ridiculous. I need to stop myself focussing on the OM and her comms with him. I fully expect to get sh!te from the vets here, as I know I am letting myself be manipulated by someone better at the game than me. Much better. I failed to stand up to my own boundary yet again. Another meaningless ultimatum. She must smell the desperation on me.

On a happier note, I started new contract today, so back at work - won't be around home so much. Early starts and late finishes are back. I'll miss having so much extra time with D5, but it's good to be back in work again after 2 weeks out.

I will also be able to dig out my DR book and start refreshing. I have had to have it well hidden the last 2 , as she has pretty much gone through every bit of paper of mine she could find, at some point. I really don't need her finding the book.

Anyway, apologies for this long and rambling update.

[Gordie]

Woke_Up,

As you point out, what you are doing isn't working...you are back at square 1.

What do you want to change the dynamic? What do you need to change within yourself to enforce your boundaries? As you know, boundaries with no consequences are worse than no boundaries at all.

Maybe a baby step? The next time your W asks you to do something for her, just say no...or if no seems too abrupt, then I can't do things for you under the current circumstances.

And re ML..just asking: why did you do it? how did it make you feel? did you think it was helpful or hurtful to your situation?

[sandi2]

When will you learn that talking with her does not work?

W told me that she would end it, that she wasn't going to leave for someone she had never met, she just needed to pick a day and I would need to take her devices off her. I said how about now, but W said she wasn't ready yet.

And you did nothing? I mean, this ^^^^says it all.

I think I've said this once before, that it is her responsibility to end the A. She is playing games with you when she says she needs a day for you to take off her devices. By saying she wasn't ready yet.......she is saying she wants to f--k OM some more.

However, soon after she she started telling me that she thought I would go back to how I was, I would start being a [censored] again, that I never spoke to her, that I never had, etc. By the end I said it sounded like she had already talked herself out of it. She said she hadn't, so I just said ok, wished her goodnight, and left her room, went to bed and tried to sleep.

This can be filed under WW BS. I won't quote all the paragraphs, I'll just say that your W is manipulating you and playing you like a toy.

She also started saying that I had no right to invade her stuff, that she had found and read the leaflet on boundaries that I had printed out and that I should learn to respect them, that I was not to touch her things, she would put locks on the door, that I wasn't to hack her (not actually 'hacked' her for a long time). That I shouldn't have deleted things from her phone, stuff that she wanted to keep, that she would just have to ask for more. I said she was sick. I also sent another message to OM at this point, I was quite angry.

She has challenged you at every turn and she continues to see no action from her H. She is really putting it out there......seeing how much more $h't you'll take.

Why are you sending OM another message? You aren't M to him. Surely you don't expect a man who is having an affair with a married woman to do the honorable thing! Don't expect the AP to do the job you can't get your W to do.

Later, W asked me to pick up a valentines card for me from her when I was out shopping with D, and some flowers would be nice. She asked this in front of the kids. So basically I bought 3 cards... one for me from her, one for her from me, and 1 that D liked. I also bought the damn flowers,

Seriously? This tells a lot about the dynamics in your MR.

We also ended up ML. (I know, the disapproval is palpable)

Manipulation!

[Woke_Up]

Woke_Up,

As you point out, what you are doing isn't working...you are back at square 1.

What do you want to change the dynamic? What do you need to change within yourself to enforce your boundaries? As you know, boundaries with no consequences are worse than no boundaries at all.

Gordie, thanks for your post. I know, I am really struggling with putting things into action. What do I want to change? So much.i want to be able to not be at the whim of her moods, with my responses and emotions tied to hers. I want to be able to avoid the arguments in front of the kids, which I try my best on. I want to be able not to engage, to find the time for myself in all of this. But I don't seem to be able to. I get back from work at around 7:30 pm - school is out at the moment, so D then needs a bath, story, bed and she is not playing ball I get to eat dinner gone 9pm. Then I am almost out of time - I do a few jobs around the house. Last night W wanted to watch a film together, while we ate diner. We started watching, but then I saw her on her phone, messaging... she hid the phone when I got up to get the ketchup from the table, and it was obvious she was on to OM. I said something about her doing it while I was sitting in the same room, and then I left the room. Finished my dinner in the study, went for a walk on the garden, and then took the car to the tyre shop, dropped I off and cycled home. Then went to bed, although she still had me help her sort her bed out when she wasn't happy with yet another memory foam mattress topper she had bought.

Maybe a baby step? The next time your W asks you to do something for her, just say no...or if no seems too abrupt, then I can't do things for you under the current circumstances.

I have tried this, and should probably be firmer and weather the S##t storm that will follow. It starts with how she does EVERYTHING, looks after my children, I'll have to start asking her to look after the children and to do things if she has to ask me, etc. We have had plenty of typical WW spew this morning. All scripted. This was about her room (the MBR) - I had forced her out, stand len it, stolen her bathroom, her wardrobe (she actually lit my clothes in there and moved hers out), stole her bed, and it's the only one she can Ben comfortable on, after having my child ruined her back and pelvis... then she said we should go our separate ways, that I would try to rip her off because I am self employed, that she knows how men work. She would be happy with just the house and not take a penny off me (this is so laughable, we afford it as I am self employed, we wouldn't afford it if I was in a regular 9-5, and as she has been a sahm, she is not in a career position. She also resents this. Anyway, she is fixated on the bedroom issue, but even if I moved back out, it wouldn't change her behaviour. She wasn't even willing for me to take the study as my space - that was why she let me back into the bedroom - rather that than let me have part of the house for me. There is a major control issue here. This morning she was telling me she would have no choice but to emigrate, as she couldn't afford the UK if she didn't get the house. This is a threat and done to hurt, as OM is in the US.

And re ML..just asking: why did you do it? how did it make you feel? did you think it was helpful or hurtful to your situation?

I am one of those people who likes to be physically close to feel emotionally close. I guess it was my way of trying to get her emotionally involved with me again, and feeling that there is still hope, that all is not lost. However, I suspect that she was just horny on this occasion and I was being manipulated, consciously or unconsciously. It wasn't hurtful to my sitch specifically, but always feels weird when she then goes off to her room.

[Gordie]

Woke Up,

You are in deep pain. Your W has you wrapped around her finger. She gets to do whatever she wants (EA, text OM in your presence, spew, ML) with no consequences? Have you read about codependency? It's when there is one sick partner (your W) and the other person enables their behavior (doing tasks for her, preventing her from facing the natural consequences for her actions). I've recently read up on this because I am guilty of some of this in my R. The sick person can continue in their sickness longer when the partner is constantly protecting them. If this sounds familiar, maybe read more about it as these behaviors are often decades in the making and really hard to change.

[Gordie]

After you ML...she then leaves to the other room?

[Woke_Up]

Gordie, I haven't read up on it, it was on my to do list. I'll prioritise it. I had more of the same when I got back from taking D5 out. At least that was a nice time. Took her to spend some of her birthday money at the Disney store in the city, then took her for lunch.

W was still talking emigration when I returned. Then. As I was going to cycle to collect my car, she offered to take me. I picked some ingredients up for dinner then wanted to get some privacy for my DB coaching, and W wasn't letting me. I'd said I had a training call and she was just going to sit in the study while I did it to see what I was up to - she thought I was going to talk to a L again. I eventually had to tell her I was talking to a counsellor to help me with the difficult situation. I ended up going out into the garage for the call.

Afterwards she started pressuring me, wanted to know who it was, which company, what I talked about. When I said if she wanted counselling she should find someone, she started saying that OM was her counsellor and that I had interfered and wouldn't give her any privacy so she wouldn't give me any privacy. I had to leave the area.

Then, at dinner she started asking more questions, I had to deflect as much as possible, just said it was mostly stuff to work on me with my issues and help with my anxiety.

Then she started saying that she was torn, but then started bringing up past stuff, the stuff that led to this sitch. I validated where I could, but it wasn't easy. She always does this in front of D. I was trying not to get into any type of R talks, as per DB coach but I wasn't being let off the hook.

Things weren't so bad later, W had a bath with D, and was happy enough for me to be in there, then we spoke about inconsequential things later in her room, and I had my hand on her leg at one point, which she was ok with. Also, just before bed, she asked me to keep her company while she went out to smoke a joint. She has started doing this almost nightly since this sitch got bad. She was going to stop but lasted 2 days. Apparent going to stop again on Monday, however I'm not holding out. I do think this is linked to her EA and addictiveness/anxiety.

When she did go to bed, although pleasant before hand, she didn't bother saying goodnight. I resisted the urge to go to her room and say it.

All in all, this day has sucked.

[Woke_Up]

After you ML...she then leaves to the other room?

Yes, not immediately, but yes. This was the first time we had ML since she moved out of the MBR about 3-4 weeks ago.

[Woke_Up]

So DB coaching session today. Went through our history and current sitch.

Talked a little bit about what had caused it - W had gone onto Twitter to find like minded people as we were arguing a lot about issues in Europe and the UK with the mass immigration situation and various sex attacks. She felt I was putting out D in danger as I had slightly different views to her. There's more to it but I don't particularly want to share it on here.

Anyway, my coach suggested a softer approach, as has been Sen elsewhere. Try to build a friendship. Treat her as a friendly houseguest. Stop all pursuing behaviours, and stop my snooping. She also told me to stop focussing on OM, not to contact him again, he was obviously not a decent man to be doing what he is doing when he knows there is a family involved. Lots of stuff people on here have already said.

She also suggested a couple of books to get, including the 5 love languages.

She felt there were issues with how much we fight, and the fact that we both need to be right, but those could be addressed. 'Right fighters' she called it.

Then, as I said above, I walked back into the remainder of her spew and fight picking.

I'll stop the snooping. I must admit, I did glance this morning after she was talking about emigrating, saying the kids would be safer in America, that Europe was ruined and wouldn't be safe. OM was talking to her about coming to the UK. That won't go well if he does.

I'd told her that I wouldn't let her take my kids away, and that she couldn't legally do it. She threatened to do it illegally. I also told her if OM came over here because she couldn't go over there, it wouldn't end well. That if he went near my kids, I'd break his legs.

Great going eh?

If only you could psychically know when the spew is coming and schedule the coaching for before instead of after.

[Gordie]

Woke Up,

I got similar advice on my first DB coaching session and have been following it. I think you've heard over and over again things you should be doing but I think your issue now is not knowledge but execution. You are inconsistent. You are waffling. Maybe so much advice has been overwhelming. I feel you need to take baby steps. Choose one or two things and follow through on that. If I were in your shoes, the first baby steps I would take that are totally in your control: 1. Stop snooping and 2. End all conversations that involve spewing (walk out of the room or leave the house or say I do not want to talk to you like this, if you must say something).