Advice needed

[Sam22]

So did you lie to your wife or tell her the truth? You told her you want to leave...but you are telling us you don't want to leave.

I told her that I would leave the marriage, but I didn't want to. Apologies, I should of been clearer.

So how did you respond two days ago?

I said I would do what she needed to help her figure out if she thought she had the energy to try to fix our marriage and offered suggestions on how we could make that happen.

***I do love her and I want to take some of the weight off her shoulders, so I said I was going to leave.***

What Rose said...how does leaving take the weight off her shoulders? This seems like another weight ON HER SHOULDERS.

Like I said earlier, the weight I would be taking off her shoulders would be about her  having to stress about whether she thinks she can work on the marriage. She already said that she was leaning to the answer being a no.

***I told her my reasons, in that I'm doing this because I love her. She asked me if I wanted to sit with it for a little, but I said no.***

Why did you say no? This is a major, life-changing decision.
At the time, I honestly believed it was what she needed and wanted.

And how will separating make her happy?
To be honest, I don't know. Ive asked if she would be happier if I left and she said she didn't know.


So you still love each other and can be physically affectionate?
Yes, we do love each other and while we were being affectionate, I asked her if she was uncomfortable and she said no. Even when I left for work this morning, we hugged and kissed each other goodbye.

So you haven't been physically affectionate in years?
We haven't been intimate in over a year, and that's fine cause I know she has been under alot of stress and is tired alot. Ive tried to help with the stress and tiredness by taking care of the kids at night when they wake up and by making sure I help as much as possible when I get home from work. I don't get many opportunities to let her sleep in as I work 2 jobs, but I do whenever I can. Last weekend I got her to sleep until 10:30 and then when she got up, I told her to go to a local cafe and have a nice breakfast and have some time to herself. One of my jobs means I have to be up at 2am at least twice a week and the other morning's, I'm up at 4:30. I get home at about 4:30 in the afternoon so I can help her and the kids.


Do you want to be an involved father?

Without a doubt. One of the reasons for me suggesting that we still live in the same house is so I can be involved and to support her and kids financially and emotionally. I don't want her doing all this on her own, and I made that very clear to her.


Is that why you are separating? Because she has been verbally abusive towards you?

Not really. Like I said, I don't want to leave, but I do want to make her happy and if that means it's not being in a relationship with me, then I'm willing to accept that. I know she's not an abusive person and I know that it's a result of the other stresses Ive mentioned, which is why I try to ignore it as much as I can.


How have you grieved? How has she grieved? Have either of you had any counseling?
I haven't really grieved as I've always tried to make sure my wife was in first. We have been to counselling and she is still going.


If you feel you may have made a mistake, you need to tell your W ASAP!

I don't want it to look like that I'm thinking about myself cause it's what I want and not what she needs. I would love to tell her that I've made a mistake, but I am worried it will add that stress again.

***She's been really upset and alot more loving towards me, but has also accepted my decision.***



If she is really upset and crying and affectionate (actions), this means more than saying she has accepted it (words).

I hope so, cause we do really love each other.

How can you look after her if you are abandoning her and the children?

Like I said, Ive told her that I would still like to live at home so I can be there for the kids, watch them grow up and to support her financially and emotionally. She said I have helped her heal from alot of soundings (before our time together), and I said I wanted to keep doing that. She thanked me and then hugged and kissed me.


From what are you setting her free? Is your marriage a prison--emotionally?

At times it is and I know it's caused us both alot of grief.


What do you want her to do/say more than she already has? Do you want her to beg, beg, beg you to stay and work on the M?

No, I don't want her to beg, but this is why I'm confused. She's told me a few times that she doesn't think she can work on it and even if she did, so doesn't know how to fix it, but in the last 2 days, we've been more affectionate and loving towards each other than we have been in a long time.

***She is a beautiful soul who's been through alot in her life including having an abusive father and seeing her mother and grandmother being abused by their husbands. I walked into our room last night and she became immediately scared as she thought I was going to hurt her. Not because of me personally as I've never abused her, but because of what her father and grandfather did to their wives during their marriage and after their divorce. The first week of our honeymoon was stressful for her as her mother told her that the first time she was physically abused by her husband was on their honeymoon. My wife was worried that I would turn into that person.***

This is yet another difficulty to deal with and it sounds like she hasn't individually and you haven't as a couple.

No, she hasn't, and we haven't, but I do think it's a long term thing and she does trust me, it's that in certain times, her woundings come up and I do my best to love her through it.

***We do love each alot and shes told me that a few times today, but maybe sometimes love isn't enough :-( ***

It sounds like she hasn't given up on the M, but you have...if you haven't...then think you should reconsider your separation decision.

I hope she hasn't. I really do. I'm hoping that she comes back from interstate wanting to try to make it work. I haven't given up either as I do want to be with her.

[Rose888]

Hi doodler,
We have tried seeing a marriage counselor, but we only saw her about 3 timess, but didn't feel that it helped much. There are alot of built up frustrations for both of us because of everything we've been through. The sessions didn't seem to be helping.

Rose, I understand why it might look that way, but I made the decision as she was telling me that she didn't have the strength to work on our marriage. When we spoke last, I told her that I would always be there for her and the kids and I still want to look after them. We're even considering still living in the same house so I can keep helping. The weight I'm trying to take off her shoulders is about having to put in extra effort into our marriage so she can focus on herself and I can still be there to support her and the kids financially and emotionally. If we agree, I'll still be going home to help out each night, plus with the kids waking up in the night. I do this now andd don't want to change that. I want to be involved in raising them.

Why does she feel like she has to put effort into your marriage right now?

You are both dealing with grief and loss, but she is also dealing with post-parturition depression and (if she's like most moms of young children) chronic sleep deprivation.

The ideal husband response to your wife is, "Don't even worry about the marriage for the next six months. Let's focus on you. I'm committed to you and the kids. I know you don't have any more to give."

And then you book her--just her--a night in a nice hotel with room service and tell her to take 24 hours for herself while you care for the kids. And think about what you can do to ease her burden. Hiring a cleaning service? A mother's helper?

It might be expensive, but so is divorce. I wouldn't go into debt for this, but I would stop paying toward retirement if that was the only way I could spring it.

And get individual counseling for both of you.

You've been dealt a rough hand, and you both need some support.

I hate to see a marriage end because of stress.

[Rose888]

I posted this before I saw your response to Gordie. Sorry!

[Sam22]

You're right rose. I should be doing that and I have said that in the past on a couple of occassions, but we seem to be snapping at each other alot more.
She has been away a couple of times without the kids and she's stayed in a nice hotel and had the nice breakfast etc, and she does seem alot happier when she comes home, but it's short lived.
2 weeks ago, she was booked into a floristry course as she loves working with flowers, only to find out when she got there, the course had been cancelled. I told her to stay in the city and to enjoy her time. Told her to go and have a nice lunch and to just walk around in the city and to have some time to herself.
I do try to make the most of the opportunities to give her some "her time", but I don't think it's been enough. She is the type of person who needs her own time to try to recharge, and I try to give her that time, but what she gets from that time is short lived.

[Sam22]

That's ok.

[Sam22]

Thanks sotto. I do really love her and would do anything to save our marriage. I just hope I haven't left it too late.

[Sam22]

Thanks Cristy. I have just emailed you.

[Sam22]

Hi Sandi2,

We did attend grief counseling, but she found it depressing and didn't want to go back after a couple of sessions. We tried a couple of them, but the same thing happened.

She doesn't work in your typical type of job. When we lost our son, we wanted to raise money for the hospital that took care of him, so we started selling flowers at the cemetery where he's been laid to rest. Thats now turned into a cafe / florist. we been able to donate about $18,000 so far.  for a long time, she didn't want to go to the cafe as it was too hard for her to go to the cemetery. It's only been recently (last 3 months or so), that she's been ok with going, so she now works there on Sundays. we're using that time as a bit of a break for her from the kids and everyday life, plus she loves working with flowers.

She has alot of friends, but none that really offer her support in that way. Most of her family lives interstate and she doesn't feel comfortable with my family to receive support from them.

The times of affection between us have been when we've been alone and the kids are asleep in bed. when they're awake, we try to act normal so they don't pick up on our sadness. Our LO with downs is very sensitive and picks up on things easily, so we're making a concentrated effort to not let them see our sadness.

The reason I want to stay in the house is because I don't want to abandon her or the kids. I know she needs my help in different ways and I want to help and look after her. While leaving the marriage might relieve some of stress of having to think about if / how we could make it work, I'm not going to add the stress of her having to look after the kids alone. She is in a vulnerable state and has been for a long time. I feel she does want me there as it's difficult with the 2 little ones, especially with their night routine. I know she also feels safe when I'm home. She's told me a few times before that she feels anxious if I'm not home at night which is very rare.

The verbal abuse started a little while ago, and looking back now, and reading some of these posts, I can understand why. She was never like that and for her to admit it, was a very big thing for her and for me. Whenever we've argued before, the blame was always on me and when I had a valid point for being upset, she would find a way to shift the blame to me. Like i said, she never used to be like this, but considering everything, I can understand why she is.

She doesn't lash out at the kids, but I've gotten home a couple of times and there have been holes in the walls as she's punched the walls or she's thrown or damaged furniture. When this has happened, I tell her to go to our bedroom and to have a shower and have some time for herself to read a book or watch one of her favorite tv episodes and I'll take over looking after both of the kids. She'll come back down maybe 2 hours later feeling much better and apologizing. I always re-assure her that there's no need to apologise cause I know it's hard. 

[Gordie]

You are both dealing with grief and loss, but she is also dealing with post-parturition depression and (if she's like most moms of young children) chronic sleep deprivation.

The ideal husband response to your wife is, "Don't even worry about the marriage for the next six months. Let's focus on you. I'm committed to you and the kids. I know you don't have any more to give."

Sam22--I think Rose's advice is awesome. I second it wholeheartedly. Rose knows what she's talking about. If you are both unsure about the future of your marriage...and you both say you love each other and are affectionate...then I think you need to buy yourselves time...you deserve time before making any big decisions like separation or divorce...the beginning of Divorce Remedy talks about the illusion of divorce and that people who are in stressful situations convince themselves that if only they divorce, then their problems will go away...and it's just an illusion...I don't see divorce helping either of you resolve your big issues...if for some reason you deal with all of your big issues and you still want a divorce, then tackle that question at that time...divorce without children is complicated...divorce with children is really complicated...it will only add to the burden/stress of your lives...

[TxHubby]

If you're both so loving to each other, why is anyone leaving? What else do you think you'll find out there that you don't already have?