A WW? (7)

[ForGump]

LT-- I hate to say this, and I know I only have a partial picture through the Internet forum, but I believe the dominant part of your situation is your W's mental health. I don't see your marriage getting better until/unless she gets to a better state of mental health. Put another way, even if you were to magically subtract out your marriage and a child from your wife's life, I think she'd still be full of anxiety and confusion, and discontent. Would you agree?

[lt0402]

Bigybiz, jeep, and cheesyt it'd be awesome to have a DB tough mudder team. If we can help each other through this stuff, I've no doubt we can conquer some silly obstacles!

Hawk, we had a blast at laser tag. D and I had each other's backs and it turns out she's like a little ninja! I'm also rooting for the falcons. Tough to pull for the pats with everything that's gone on there. Would rather it be my skins though!!

Yeah, we are dog people but Ds allergies to dogs are enough to give us pause. D has a small cat allergy but it's not nearly as bad as the dog one. She's been dying for a pet to play with so we are going the cat route. I know it'll make her happy and she's pretty much counting down the days until the summer! That's awesome that you've got 3 dogs though. That's a lot of energy to burn off! Always awesome to see you around here hawk!!

Gordie, I agree with you that my W seems to be trying to find an identity. Whether it's purposeful or she's just kind of stumbling through it, I don't know. She hasn't shared with me where she sees herself in the coming years, other than telling me in October that she would not be married to me come her 40th bday (this spring). I like the idea of setting up a structured interaction with her. She's not pleasant to converse with in our current situation.

FG, yeah, I also believe my Ws anxiety is a massive barrier to fixing things. Subtracting out M and child, I think she'd be able to isolate herself enough from outside influences to maintain the control she needs in her life. That said, I think she'd have insecurity and would experience the anxiety and discontent in fits and spurts. So to some degree I agree with you. I just don't think it'd be as pronounced as it is now bc she could hide away from things.

IC and I spent most of this session discussing where W may be with regards to her mental state. I mentioned to IC what W said about "you know you need to talk to me. I know that it's not pleasant to talk to me and I'm angry, but you need to talk to me". IC thought that was a substantial event with W. He took that, along with Ws comments about her "boobs going to waste" and W not attacking me when D asked "is daddy good at sex" as W trying to tell me that she needs me to challenge her and show her strength. Seems like a roundabout, weird way to do it but IC thought it said a lot.

So he thinks I should challenge my W in a caring way. I'd been kicking around the idea of giving W a timeline for how long we try to make this work. IC thinks I shouldn't do that. He offered that I have a conversation with W where I tell her what I'm thinking but don't give her a deadline. So I'm thinking about telling her, as we talk about selling the house and buying another, that I want to discuss our future. Tell her that I can see that she's unhappy. That I am also not content with how things are right now. That I care for her and I won't tolerate us living unhappy lives. That I promised W I was unwilling go back to a M the same way that it was before. Pretty much all stuff I'm currently thinking and probably needs to be said anyways.

It has the potential to send W spewing and give her an out, but I think an approach like that may be the only way to challenge her, while at the same time providing her with some semblance of safety from her anxiety. To your point earlier FG, I think this is the only way I can attempt to aid her in getting back to a more solid mental state. I need to keep the consistency of action and voice, but somehow add in the challenge and safety aspects. Sometimes this feels like juggling chainsaws....

Anyway, thanks all for the support and kind words. Looking forward to the weekend!

[mvgfwd2]

Don't accuse of anything or pressure her on timing. Something like: "I don't like how things are now, I know things can be better, but I have to decide what I am going to do about my future soon, maybe _______ weeks/months". This puts you in control of you, and not you controlling her.

[ForGump]

LT-- remind me ... you two have done MC before, and it didn't help. Right?

What if ... you ...

a) openly acknowledge to your W that you understand she wants out of the marriage;
b) but for the sake of moving forward from here, you'd like to understand her grievances toward you clearly;
b) and you guarantee that you won't say anything to try to change her mind about the marriage;

... then might she go with you to a therapist and talk about what's going on with her insider her head? Not to a marriage counselor, more someone who can help your W sort out her thoughts and feelings. You would basically just keep your mouth shut and listen the whole time.

I've fantasized about asking my W to do the above. I don't think she would go for it, because she distrusts therapists (and me as well), and believes she doesn't really need them.

[Gordie]

I want to be on the tough muddier team! Count me in. I'm better at tough mudders than DBing.

[Gordie]

My W has refused MC because she says there is nothing to save. At one point, she said she would only consider conscious uncoupling counseling. Has anyone done that?

[ForGump]

she says there is nothing to save.

What? But she says she still loves you and has sex with you and relies on you financially... Sounds to me like plenty to save....

[DonH]

I agree with your councilor. Not sure why but I continue to have strong gut reactions to your sitch

1. As Sandi says, a wife can't love a H she walks all over and does not respect. I really have to wonder if "you have to talk to me" is not more like you have to stand up to and challenge her. You have to keep her inbounds. Some women, especially strong ones want a H who stops them from getting away with [censored].

2. If any sitch calls for the "act as if" strategy, it's yours! You have to stop reacting to her and just act as if. When she tries to put you down you have to almost brush it off like, yeah, yeah. You really still love me. Don't say this, mind you, just act as if she does. Try it and see.

3. I too see good movement in your sitch. I interpret "I'll just live this way for D" really as she wants to try but is not about to or is too afraid to say that to you. I also see the sex related items as positive. She needs you to be the man and wear the pants. She's been doing it because you have not!

Listen to this C. I think he's on the right track. Try these things out. If they work, keep doing them. If not, try something else. As long as she is not in either EA or PA you still are in the game!

[Woke_Up]

she says there is nothing to save.

What? But she says she still loves you and has sex with you and relies on you financially... Sounds to me like plenty to save....

I'd second that. I suspect it is the WW's world view being all out of kilter, which seems a common theme. Believe nothing of what they say

[cheesyt]

where are you LT?!