My WW and the Great Sandi2 Experiment

[Vapo]

Exfuctly!

Avoiding conflicts solves nothing. REclaim your balls and walk back in the MBR. If she wants out of the marriage, she can leave MBR, house and marriage. No need to help you there. Last night you saw exactly what happens if you do not stand up for yourself. You end up hating yourself. So reclaim MBR and start feeling better about yourself and do not give in to emotional blackmail. She will say/do/lie just about everything. You know the truth, don't allow her to gaslight you!

[Altair]

Chris,
Don't be so hard on yourself. You did pretty well. The coach hopefully will give you advice.
Also: just because you slept not in MBR for a night doesn't mean you have to stick with that. You can do a "I changed my mind" and try again.
She doesn't get to have all the control !!
Hang in there.

[Chris73]

Just finished with the coaching session and everyone on this board is correct when they describe that the DB coaches will take a softer stance over the tough love advocated here.

I know Sandi2 makes a distinction between the walk-away wife and the wayward wife. But I tried to share as many details about my sitch with the coach (everything that I've already shared here, in summary at least, trying not to leave out any major events) and he describes my W as a WAW, but I realize that the DB coaches don't make the distinction between the two types.

He described my W's mindset this way:

"I know everything there is to know about my H. There's no mystery left. He's never going to change the behavior that I object to and even if he does, it will only be temporary in order to trick me back into the marriage. So the only way I can truly be happy is if I walk away from this marriage."

This description seems fair for the most part. Although I do agree with Sandi2's additional observations that my W has lost respect for me and is taking advantage of the situation to be selfish.

My coach advised that try to "lovingly detach." My attempt to fight over the MBR (3 separate times now), ask her to move out (on more than one occasion), and suggest that we separate finances come off as punitive in nature. And for a woman who already considers me to be selfish and self-centered, this might not be the best course of action.

My coach said that when interacting with my W I need to ask myself, "What is the negative reaction that she's expecting from me" and do the opposite.

He said that I should interact with her as if she were a sibling, friendly most of the time but if she starts a conflict just walk away.

He said I should start to regain some self-respect and not use every action I make to be an opportunity to show her that I'm changing.

He advised me to continue with the in-home separation since we've both agreed upon waiting until the end of the school year before physically separating. He says that I should try to use this extra time to my advantage instead of trying to speed up the divorce.

He advised me to NOT force the issue with the MBR and that if I'm going to sleep downstairs that I should take ownership of that space. Turn it into exactly what I would want it to be if I were a bachelor.

Most importantly he told me to be very aware of my mental state when I feel compelled to initiate R talks. It's obviously not the times when I feel positive and confident, but rather when I'm angry or sad or tired. Continuing to "sales pitch" the marriage is in fact a very selfish act because I'm basically saying to her, "I'm hurting. Fix this for me." So when I get the urge to start R talks I need to do something else, even if it means leaving the house.

So for now, I think I'm going to follow the coaches advice on all this. It's a much softer approach than the advice I've gotten here, but I'm starting to think that my tough love approach is just "more of the same" as far as my W is concerned. I will continue to make positive changes for myself and GAL and I will use the Disney trip to reinforce these changes by showing my W that I am fun to be around.

I'm sure some of you on the board will not agree with this approach and I totally respect that. But this feels better for me. I will report back as things progress.

[ForGump]

He said that I should interact with her as if she were a sibling

Thanks for sharing all that, Chris. Makes a lot of sense. But one thing:

What would the coach say if you felt you were being castrated ... that your W is seeing you as a platonic, non-husband material?

I plan on asking that to my coach...

[Chris73]

Yes, FG. This is the initial reaction I had as well. I suppose the theory is that I first need to defuse the anger and resentment between us so that my W feels like we're not at odds anymore. I don't believe that this by itself will earn back her respect and attraction to me. That may come more from my GAL actions when I'm finally able to exhibit strength, independence, and self-respect regardless of what my W chooses to do.

[Vapo]

Just finished with the coaching session and everyone on this board is correct when they describe that the DB coaches will take a softer stance over the tough love advocated here.

I know Sandi2 makes a distinction between the walk-away wife and the wayward wife. But I tried to share as many details about my sitch with the coach (everything that I've already shared here, in summary at least, trying not to leave out any major events) and he describes my W as a WAW, but I realize that the DB coaches don't make the distinction between the two types.

He described my W's mindset this way:

"I know everything there is to know about my H. There's no mystery left. He's never going to change the behavior that I object to and even if he does, it will only be temporary in order to trick me back into the marriage. So the only way I can truly be happy is if I walk away from this marriage."

This description seems fair for the most part. Although I do agree with Sandi2's additional observations that my W has lost respect for me and is taking advantage of the situation to be selfish.

My coach advised that try to "lovingly detach." My attempt to fight over the MBR (3 separate times now), ask her to move out (on more than one occasion), and suggest that we separate finances come off as punitive in nature. And for a woman who already considers me to be selfish and self-centered, this might not be the best course of action.

My coach said that when interacting with my W I need to ask myself, "What is the negative reaction that she's expecting from me" and do the opposite.

He said that I should interact with her as if she were a sibling, friendly most of the time but if she starts a conflict just walk away.

He said I should start to regain some self-respect and not use every action I make to be an opportunity to show her that I'm changing.

He advised me to continue with the in-home separation since we've both agreed upon waiting until the end of the school year before physically separating. He says that I should try to use this extra time to my advantage instead of trying to speed up the divorce.

He advised me to NOT force the issue with the MBR and that if I'm going to sleep downstairs that I should take ownership of that space. Turn it into exactly what I would want it to be if I were a bachelor.

Most importantly he told me to be very aware of my mental state when I feel compelled to initiate R talks. It's obviously not the times when I feel positive and confident, but rather when I'm angry or sad or tired. Continuing to "sales pitch" the marriage is in fact a very selfish act because I'm basically saying to her, "I'm hurting. Fix this for me." So when I get the urge to start R talks I need to do something else, even if it means leaving the house.

So for now, I think I'm going to follow the coaches advice on all this. It's a much softer approach than the advice I've gotten here, but I'm starting to think that my tough love approach is just "more of the same" as far as my W is concerned. I will continue to make positive changes for myself and GAL and I will use the Disney trip to reinforce these changes by showing my W that I am fun to be around.

I'm sure some of you on the board will not agree with this approach and I totally respect that. But this feels better for me. I will report back as things progress.

I really do not see this ending well. I wish you lots of luck and patience buddy, you are going to need it......

[Gordie]

Yes, FG. This is the initial reaction I had as well. I suppose the theory is that I first need to defuse the anger and resentment between us so that my W feels like we're not at odds anymore. I don't believe that this by itself will earn back her respect and attraction to me. That may come more from my GAL actions when I'm finally able to exhibit strength, independence, and self-respect regardless of what my W chooses to do.

The way I think of it is that there is a spectrum of comfort level/attraction that we all have experienced from our spouses (and this may change from day to day or week to week). In my mind, the goal setting should be related to how can we get from one level to the next (small, achievable steps). Maybe your coach is trying to get you to #3? Where are you on this spectrum?

1 - I am not comfortable in your physical presence

2 - I am comfortable in your physical presence, but your physical touch repels me

3 - I am comfortable with your platonic physical touch (what you might do with a friend or a relative)

4 - I am comfortable with your non-sexual physical touch (a kiss on the cheek, a hug, a snuggle, a back massage)

5 - I am comfortable with everything but sex

6 - What are you waiting for? Let's get it on!

[ForGump]

Gordie, love your theory. Thanks.

One Q though: in real life ... do potential lovers really go through steps 1-2-3 then 4? Don't we kind of go from 1 straight to 4? In other words, isn't path 1-2-3 a divergent path from 1-2-4?

[ForGump]

I really do not see this ending well.

Vapo, why do you say this? Are you saying the platonic approach is the problem?

Or are you just saying the whole situation is FUBAR....?

[Chris73]

Maybe your coach is trying to get you to #3? Where are you on this spectrum?

1 - I am not comfortable in your physical presence

2 - I am comfortable in your physical presence, but your physical touch repels me

3 - I am comfortable with your platonic physical touch (what you might do with a friend or a relative)

4 - I am comfortable with your non-sexual physical touch (a kiss on the cheek, a hug, a snuggle, a back massage)

5 - I am comfortable with everything but sex

6 - What are you waiting for? Let's get it on!

Yes, right around #2 Gordie...