My WW and the Great Sandi2 Experiment

[Chris73]

Bumping just to get some eyes on my previous post...

[mvgfwd2]

Don't leave the MBR. Don't help with getting or setting up another bed. Her problem, not yours.

I wouldn't say anything about the MBR being available for her to come back to. She knows you didn't kick her out so may seem like pursuing.

[Chris73]

Ok, so I'm committed to not leaving the MB, but if she climbs in am I supposed to kick her out?

[mvgfwd2]

For me I wouldn't be sleeping with someone who has an OM. In other words, if she's with someone else she isn't with me.

[Woke_Up]

It's a tricky one. Stick to your guns is easier said than done. I'm a living example of not being strong enough to apply tough love or stick to my guns.

You've made the right decision. Don't leave the MBR. I am back in it after being out of it, and now WW is moving out. (Sleep reasons, not EA, according to her).

Many of the things in your sitch echo mine. The only thing I cling onto is that the OM is in another country so there has been no PA yet. I am sure there will be at some point.

What are you thinking about the bed situation? Are you going to help her assemble it? Move things around for her. After finishing moving a mattress on Saturday that WW had already started moving, yesterday I decided to tell her I wasn't helping move the bed frame (she wanted me & SS to do it) as I wasn't having anything to do with her EA. That blew up into a most horrendous argument. Does your sitch follow this pattern, and if so, how do you deal with it?

How are your GAL activities going at the minute? Do you struggle with working long days? I'm similar in that I am out of the house close to 14 hours a day, and then want to see D when I get home. I imagine you are the same with your S. DO you find time on weekends? Does WW try and make you feel guilty?

Anyway, stay strong - I'll keep reading your sitch and cheering you on brother, you can do this.

[mvgfwd2]

Don't be afraid of your WW getting angry at a situation she started and is perpetuating. That is her problem. Just let it roll off and don't react to the anger and walk away if she begins to spew.

[Chris73]

Well, I failed miserably. I'm not sure if I'm cut out for this tough love approach. I'm actually pretty embarrassed posting this because all of you have given me such good advice, but in the end I was unable to follow through.

I was pre-occupied the entire day thinking about the conversation we were going to have about the sleeping arrangments. When we finally sat down I started with validation:

"I know this has been difficult for you and I'm sorry that you're having a difficult time with the sleeping arrangements."

"But I'm not leaving my bed and I'm not moving downstairs."

"I want to remind you that this separation and the decision to stop working on repairing our marriage was yours, not mine."

"I am done being taken advantage of. I can't stop you from disrespecting our marriage outside of our home, but I won't let you do it in my house."

And then the spewing began (as mvgfwd2 predicted). Honestly, I don't know why I expected her to just agree...

She cried. She yelled. She called me selfish. Told me that I was purposely trying to punish her. Told me that this is exactly what her friends told her would happen. Told me that my behavior was textbook. Told me that I was going to make things worse for our kids. Denied multiple times that she was having any kind of affair. Asked me to be reasonable. Told me that she HAS to sleep on the same level as our kids because if our D5 gets up in the middle of the night to look for her she would have to walk all the way down into the basement. Insisted that me moving downstairs is much more convenient for ME because all my clothes are down there, there's a shower down there, and I leave the house earlier than she does.

I continued to stand my ground and just kept saying, "I'm sorry you feel that way." Then she said, "I could throw this water bottle right at your head." Then she stormed off.

So far so good right?

Now I'm feeling terrible, my adrenaline is off the charts and she's in our MBR with the door shut.

But then she comes out and asks me to sit down and talk some more. This is where I made the first mistake that led to many more. I should have just said, "No, there's nothing more to talk about right now." But instead I said ok.

We sat back down and started talking about our next steps. Neither of us are willing to leave the house. When I mentioned the separation of finances, she didn't blink. I think she thinks she can handle 50% of everything on her income. We will definitely be doing that after the vacation.

But honestly guys, after that I just lost it. The adrenaline surge was gone and I was tired of fighting. I am a classic conflict avoider and my W has had years of experience with verbal conflict. I saw the anger and resentment in her eyes. The absolute repulsion that she has for me now. I saw no inkling of love left. I thought of my kids and how continuing to lock horns with her was going to affect them. And I shut down. We talked for a little longer, calmly this time. A few times we went down a path where I was tempted to go into "sales-pitch" mode. Insisting that we should try to get past these problems for the sake of the kids. That divorce is going to affect them in a negative way, no matter how resilient she thinks they are. But in the end I told her that I can't live like this anymore and that I would do what she asks.

I lost my nerve. I couldn't stick to guns. Any attempt to feel good that at least I had stood up for myself was gone. I slept downstairs and cried most of the night. Plagued with visions of me moving out, her living in the house with our kids, and eventually moving someone new in.

This morning when I left for work she was already up and doing things in the kitchen. She said good morning to me. I avoided her eyes. I didn't even want to look at her. I packed my stuff and left without a word. She immediately sent me a text that said, "Goodbye! Have a nice day!" I know you can't infer tone from a txt msg but clearly this was sarcastic.

I know I'm eff'd now. I can't see how there's going to be any coming back from this. I don't have the stomach to keep fighting with her like this and if I didn't care about my future with my kids I would just leave now. She knows that she will end up with everything she wants and uses the "impact on the kids" argument to trump any objection I try to make.

Today $ucks. The only silver lining is that I have a phone coaching session at noon. I'm going to need to be prepared with notes so that I can make the best use of my time. Hopefully I'll feel better after the call.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice and tried to cheer me on. I wish I had better news to report.

[BillyHo]

Man Chris sounds like a really tough day. Don't beat yourself up. We all make mistakes but don't for a second think that this is the one that's going to ruin everything. Just do the best you can and get better everyday.

I am pretty sure you will feel better after your coaching session. The coach will give you a direction to go in and that was big for me. The hardest thing is to cherry pick advice and wonder are you doing the right thing. At least with a coach you don't have to guess.

[mvgfwd2]

Don't sweat it. Mistakes happen. You are thinking from a rational, loving perspective while she is coming from a crazy, selfish perspective. Keep in mind all the anger, guilt tripping, etc. is classic manipulation. She doesn't give 2 cr@ps about the consequences of her actions, only that she gets what she wants at all costs and will use every method of manipulation to get it. Please don't forget that.

Now what to do. Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with after a day to think about the situation to tell her that what you agreed to was a mistake and you are moving back to the MBR. Just do it. You don't need her approval to sleep in your own bed.

The best way to end the manipulation is to not react to it. Tears, anger, being nice, using sex, etc. You will get all of them. Just don't react, act as if, and keep to what is best for you and your kids. She was only nice today because she got what she wanted, didn't care about you really, just keeping you under her thumb where you belong.

You can do it, stand up for yourself. Find that pair you know you used to have. Conflict avoidance will not solve anything and will increase the lack of respect.

[mvgfwd2]

As far as any more R talks with her, if she wants to do that again it might be best to just say..."unless you want to talk about how we fix our M I'm really not interested". Set the boundary, if she starts in a different direction, walk away. I really mean walk away. Just close your mouth and leave the room or house if necessary. Discussions about how to amically end the marriage are not in your best interest. You only need to say it once.