My WW and the Great Sandi2 Experiment

[Chris73]

Mornings are always terrible. It starts with waking up to realize that this is not just a nightmare. Then it evolves into those questions about wtf happened to my wife? She uses every opportunity to stay out as late as possible and then crashes the next day.

I'm trying my best to keep up with the house, but I work 11 hour days, 5 days a week, and my W works all day Saturday. She was always a stickler for cleanliness, but now the house is really starting to show some neglect. I feel like taking a week off and just doing it all myself.

Today I took my daughter to gymnastics and now we're at a birthday party for one of her friends. These days I'm extra observant of how many people are wearing wedding rings at these gatherings. I'm sure other people have problems but I feel like I'm the only one with a wife who has given up. I know it's just me feeling sorry for myself.

[sandi2]

feel like taking a week off and just doing it all myself.

Traditionally, was it your W who saw to the needs of house cleaning? How many hours a week does she work outside the home?

You are thinking of missing a week of work to clean the house. What is the real motivation or intent of your heart? Is it to help her, although she has neglected the conditions of the home? Is it to show her how negligent she has been...and now....YOU are missing an entire week of work to clean up and to take care of her work? Are you so bothered by the conditions that it would be worth a week's salary to get the place clean? And, when it reaches this stage again, will you have to take off another week?

I have not been in your M shoes, but over the years, I have had several individual adults to live with me (for a short while) who did not show respect for my home by leaving their mess and cluter for someone else to handle. They showed no apparent concern that someone else was left to clean their mess. It can really grate on whatever relationship you have with them. I found it amazing how they were not embarrassed or even ashamed of their lack of responsibility to clean up after themselves. I was left with four choices. Discuss it with them, and hope they change; say nothing and clean up their mess; ignore the mess as best I could; tell them they have to leave my home.
None of those options were pleasant. The longer I lived in the mess by my uninvited guest, the more I let it bother me.

It's odd how it can affect you when you have emotional attachments to the person. I suspect in a MR, you could see their negligence and mess being symbolic to their present frame of mind.

My recommendation is to be your own best friend here. Whatever you do about the clean or don't clean, it is not going to affect the wayward mindset of your W. I hope you can detach emotionally from the mess you see around you.

[Chris73]

Traditionally, was it your W who saw to the needs of house cleaning? How many hours a week does she work outside the home?

Yes, my W was typically responsible for the majority of the housework. She works a range of 16 - 24 hours/week. Never more than that since S8 was born. It's always been a bit of a bone of contention between us... that I don't do enough, or at the very least, I'm not pro-active enough to take on some of the household responsibilities.

You are thinking of missing a week of work to clean the house. What is the real motivation or intent of your heart? Is it to help her, although she has neglected the conditions of the home? Is it to show her how negligent she has been...and now....YOU are missing an entire week of work to clean up and to take care of her work?

Six months ago, heck even 3 months ago I would have said that my motivation was the former. These days it's the latter. I feel like I've enabled the selfishness for too long by catering to her. It was my insecurity about her wanting to stay in the marriage that motivated me to do extra work. To "change my ways" even while knowing that it might be too late now.

But she told me on NYE that the only dominant feelings she has for me are anger and resentment. She looks around the house and everything she sees makes her feel angry and resentful. And I would bet that this anger and resentment even goes as far as our kids, even though she would NEVER admit it.

So lately my motivation in doing housework, finishing projects, fixing things and organizing the clutter around the house is to take ownership of it all. To not let my kids be affected by her negligence. To finally step up and be a man. But maybe also to help her let go of whatever might be keeping her from moving out. Maybe she needs to see that we'll be ok without her.

Are you so bothered by the conditions that it would be worth a week's salary to get the place clean? And, when it reaches this stage again, will you have to take off another week?

Well, it would probably only be one or two days and maybe a couple of work from home days (my commute is over an hour in each direction). And once I felt like things were under control. It would be easier for me to maintain them after resolving to the fact that I cannot count on her help anymore.

It's odd how it can affect you when you have emotional attachments to the person. I suspect in a MR, you could see their negligence and mess being symbolic to their present frame of mind.

I do see it that way. Just another example of how she has not handled this "awakening" appropriately. She's angry that she catered to everyone all her life (I'm just the most recent) and now she's trying to make up for it with 100% me time. Obviously a better way to do this would be to find a balance. If she insisted on more "me" time, I would have been happy to give it to her.

I don't know, maybe I'm interpreting this all wrong. Maybe it's the bourbon

My recommendation is to be your own best friend here. Whatever you do about the clean or don't clean, it is not going to affect the wayward mindset of your W. I hope you can detach emotionally from the mess you see around you.

This, in a nutshell is my biggest problem, and always has been. In the book I'm reading it says that "nice guys" are always dependent on the reactions/approval from others to validate their self-worth. And this is especially true in romantic relationships. I'm still not detached yet. It's getting a little better, but I'm still second guessing most of my actions. Always wondering what she's thinking. Is she's noticing the changes I've made? How does it make her feel?

Sandi2, I believe you and everyone else on this board that nothing I do is really going to affect her mindset. That I have to do things for myself. To regain my identity. But the reality is that my emotions just naturally respond the other way. I guess this is where "fake it til you make it" comes in. Or as darknes says:

You should be working towards your goals regardless of your feelings... Make a plan and stick to it. Don't act based on how you FEEL.

Coming to this board 2 or 3 times a day and posting is like an addict calling his sponsor when he feels weak. My W is right upstairs on the couch watching TV. I want to run up there and shake her and say, "WTF, snap out of it! Are you crazy? Why are you doing this?" and then hug her and hold her until she comes back to earth. And believe me, I've done this a few times over the past 7 months, and it's gotten me nowhere. It's actually made things worse.

So instead I've spent the last hour writing this post and sipping bourbon and it's gotten me past it. I am now tired enough to forget about my sitch for the next 8 or 9 hours. Thank you DB board! Tomorrow is a new day!

[Jug]

Mornings are always terrible. It starts with waking up to realize that this is not just a nightmare. Then it evolves into those questions about wtf happened to my wife? She uses every opportunity to stay out as late as possible and then crashes the next day.

I'm trying my best to keep up with the house, but I work 11 hour days, 5 days a week, and my W works all day Saturday. She was always a stickler for cleanliness, but now the house is really starting to show some neglect. I feel like taking a week off and just doing it all myself.

Today I took my daughter to gymnastics and now we're at a birthday party for one of her friends. These days I'm extra observant of how many people are wearing wedding rings at these gatherings. I'm sure other people have problems but I feel like I'm the only one with a wife who has given up. I know it's just me feeling sorry for myself.

I totally live through all of these things and have for a while. I look forward to separation so I can really move on.

[Vapo]

Separation was a godsend. It truly was. It was a bitter pill to swallow, but yes, things really picked up from there (I do not mean with the W, but with personal growth and development).

[maly]

The title says it all folks. 2017 is here and it's time for me to drop the rope.
That sounds just like my story for the last 4 years,its amazing how so many story's are all most identicle,with the spouses having a lot of the same symptoms, just wish I found this great place sooner
My sitch has been well documented in many threads. The last one is here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2721509

I don't want to rehash the details here, but I will say that the holidays were very stressful. My WW and I had 2 big relationship discussions. Both of them totally initiated by me, knowing full well that I was just making things worse, but still not accepting the fact that honesty, logic, and reasoning can't win back a WW. Suffice it to say that I believe my W is in the very thick fog of a PA/EA. I don't have hard evidence, but I know for sure that she stayed out all night on Jan 1st and was NOT at the location she claimed to be. The lies just keep piling up.

It has taken me two full months of posting on this board and reading Sandi2's comments to finally realize that my W still has my b@lls in a bag. She has absolutely no respect for me. All she feels for me is anger and resentment. Any friendliness on her part is simply to keep my b@lls in her possession, while we live under the same roof but separated.

She's getting away with murder. She does whatever she wants and knows that her home is still there, her kids are well taken care of, and if for some reason she wants back in the marriage, it's available. All the while, I swallow my pride, suffer silently, and pine away for this woman because I love her and I want to keep my family together.

But no more. I have read Sandi2's WW threads over and over again. And every time something else happens in my MR, I head to the board and Sandi2 has not only already predicted it, but explains why it happened and how to react. And yet I still ignore her advice... "Oh my sitch is different," I say to myself. Well actually, it isn't. It's textbook WW selfishness. So consider this my awakening. I guess I just didn't want to believe it.

Now in my defense I have tried to apply some of Sandi2's rules and the LRT, but I'm still very much attached to my WW and my actions are all perfectly calculated to illicit a reaction from her. I "act as if" I'm moving on with my life but it's not a very convincing act. And only until today did I realize that I really need to "act as if" the M is over, because regardless of where the two of us end up, the M really IS over.

But today I am committing to following Sandi2's rules and advice to the letter. I'm going to need a lot of help along the way so I implore all of you to chime in anytime. This thread will serve as a journal for me and I will try to post often. Obviously my ultimate goal is to try to jar my W out of her A fog and get her to start piecing. But this goal is very far off right now. What I really need to do immediately is reclaim my b@lls and make it clear to my WW that her free ride is over.

I have an appointment for an initial consultation with a lawyer on Friday. My goal is to convince my W that she should move out, but I need a backup plan when she refuses (and she will) and knowing what some of my basic rights are will help. Plan B will likely be the separation of finances and possibly her removal from my medical insurance. She doesn't have any chronic illness so there's no need for me to feel guilty.

If you've read any of my other threads you'll know that we had planned a trip to Disney World for the 2nd week in January and we both still plan to go despite the current situation. So I will continue to keep the peace at home and not bring up the changes I listed above until after we get back. I know it sounds like a cop-out, but I really want my kids to enjoy their first trip to Disney. There's no need to have a discussion about what's going to happen after we get back. It will just make the vacation more tense.

I have claim over the MBR and will keep it that way. My WW has been sleeping on the couch for about 3 weeks now. Over the holiday we spent more time together than Sandi2 advises, but that will stop now. And most importantly, no more R talks. I'm done. Nothing good has ever come out of any of them but because I have a "fix-it" mentality, I just keep trying. In addition to this I will try my best to not initiate any conversation and be brief when she initiates. This is really the hardest part because I have to remember to always be upbeat and positive, yet reserved and pulled back. This is very hard for me to do and many times I come off as cold or angry. This is what I need to work on the most. If she knows the sitch is still bothering me, she still has my b@lls.

Not sure what else to add at this point. I have a lot of changes to make for myself, to get my mojo back, to be the guy that my W initially fell in love with, even if she never comes back. I welcome all comments and advice, but mostly I ask for encouragement. This tough love is harder than anything else I've ever had to do.

[Chris73]

Going to need some good advice today.

W approached me this morning to tell me that she was going to change the sheets on the MB and asked to switch with me because her back can't take the couch anymore (as Sandi2 predicted).

She wants to us to get another bed and put it downstairs for me to sleep on. She insists that she needs to be "on the same level as the kids" at night. So she expects me to sleep on the couch until this new bed can be purchased, which will be two to three weeks at the very least.

My initial response was a long pause, followed by, "let me think about it."

She followed up with some additional explaining, to which I responded:

"Do you really want to talk about this right now?"

(We were in the middle of getting the kids ready for the day which includes a birthday party for S8)

She didn't say anything else. So I looked at her and said, "You're telling me that you are going to change the sheets on the bed. The rest of what you've told me is unacceptable."

She said we'll talk later then.

I was really trying to keep things copacetic until we got back from Disney, but it looks like she's making a power play right now and as much as I now have this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach, I know I'm going to have to respond with tough love. So if/when she brings it up again, I will simply say this:

"I have never kicked you out of our MBR, but you WILL NOT kick ME out of it."

Regardless of the rest of the discussion, I will continue to sleep there, even if she goes to bed before me. There's no lock on the MBR door.

My main worry is that I will either back pedal or get bitter and tell her to go sleep at the OM house if she wants a more comfortable bed. I don't want to do either of those.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I expect this conversation will be happening tonight...

[maly]

That sounds just like my story for the last 4 years,its amazing how so many story's are all most identicle,with the spouses having a lot of the same symptoms, just wish I found this great place sooner

[sandi2]

I just bit the bullet and ordered 3 sessions with a telephone coach.

I want to remind you that they will probably recommend a softer approach...... and they have not (to my knowledge) recognized the wayward W apart or in a distinct category that calls for a tougher approach. I just don't want you confused and spend your minutes in relating what some say on the board with what the coach may be saying. Let the coach guide you through the session and listen to what s/he has to say. From what I've read, most people feel better, even hopeful, after the phone sessions. so, make your minutes count.

[Seeker7]

After the BD my W moved out 1 month later and I tried to keep her here. I had not yet started learning anything. Now after 3 months of her being out of the house and all that I have learned I count it as a blessing that she left. I just read the DR book a couple of weeks ago and found this sight. I did do a lot of other reading and talking to people before DR book. I already was following most of the 37 rules. Now that I am with out her in my home it actually has helped me more emotionally and on the GAL process. It allowed me to focus a lot more on what I need to do to become the best version of myself. It has also created some problems for her that she did no foresee. Nothing I did but circumstances of decisions that we make. I know that I have a long way to go and am dedicated to make the journey. So even though right now you think that it [censored] for her to move over time you will see that it will probably be more helpful toward your recover. Just like her seeing you triggers emotions it does go the other way. So me not seeing her much has helped my emotions to get off of the crazy roller coaster ride they were on. Now they are minor ups and downs. I do know for me is that not having her around all the time has really help but you would have never convinced me of that a few months ago.