Keep Wearing Wedding Band? [Thread #6]

[AndrewP]

ForGump - I liked reading this. You have always been a very introspective person I felt. Feel free to explore your thoughts and be sure that you are making the "right" decision before you make it.

[Gordie]

AP -- I welcome bluntness and critical thinking. So thanks for your questioning.

My saying that I accept the divorce is ... my attempt to take on a Stockdale-like, unflinching, clear-eyed look at my situation. In theory there is a possibility that my MLC/WW would wake up. What are the odds? 1-in-1,000.

You see my lack of proactive participation in the divorce as passive obstruction. That probably applied more so earlier in my struggle (summer of 2016), when I postponed looking at the DIY divorce paperwork my wife gave me. But actually, back then, I simply could not emotionally bring myself to do it. It was not a willful obstruction.

At this point, I can emotionally handle doing all the paperwork. And if my wife said, let's meet tomorrow night and let's fill out forms A, B and C together, I would comply. But so far she's only asked if I'd live in the same house for up to a year after the divorce, to which I said no.

I could give her a "counter offer" for a plan to divorce. I know more-or-less what I'd ask for, if I were to do so. But I don't want to right now. Why? For one, I don't want to divorce! I want to work on our (deep) problems. Two, since her fantasized EAs in the fall of 2015 and spring of 2016, she has not crossed any of my boundaries. Three, we are living quite amicably as parents, and I'm not in a hurry to break up the family for my two young kids' sake. And four, my wife is very impulsive and has poor life-planning skills, and I've not made it any better because I helped her with everything (and still do too much, probably). I want her to think through what her divorce is going to look like, and struggle to come up with a plan herself. I don't want to hand her the divorce she wants on a platter, all worked out.

And she is figuring it out, at least the divorce part, step by step. (I think her life afterward will be a wreck). And as she asks me for participation in specific steps of the divorce (i.e., let's fill out form XYZ), I intend to comply.

I spell all this out, AP, not to be argumentative, but because it's good for my own thinking to spell it all out; and to invite everyone's feedback on it. Maybe I'm taking the wrong tack on this. I not confident. Just trying to be true.

Things will remain in flux, I'm pretty sure, so y'all will keep hearing from me.

Okay, I better understand why a counter proposal may not be the right path for you. Best wishes in this new phase. I'm negotiating our S now and it is exhausting.

[Gordie]

I hit submit too quickly. My W is also inexperienced in the financial department and one of her wishes is financial independence. I learned the hard way that she does not want me to be her teacher! So my new mantra has been--let her lawyer be the bad guy. Previously, when she made proposals that made no sense I would try to explain why and this would get messy. Now I just listen, knowing that if it makes no sense that her lawyer will point this out to her--I don't need to be the bearer of that bad news.

[ForGump]

Gordie, I'm continually tempted to help her, even the divorce process itself. I want to point out which forms to fill out, what numbers to put where, etc. (We are doing a DIY divorce, at least for now). But I stop myself. I need to let her struggle with these things.

But I need to point out something that is somewhat unique about my situation. There is a dimension to my marriage that I don't see in other marriages described here. My wife had ravenously hungry sexual appetite when we were dating, but once we got married our sex life took a nose dive and never really recovered. It always felt like it was on life support. Even as my W was telling me I was the best husband she knows (among all her friends' husbands), even as she was very warm and affectionate in every other way, she was never very interested in me sexually, even though I found her very attractive and we both had (and still do) have strong sex drives. And this is why she says she wants to divorce me. She's always rejected talking about this issue or working on it.

The only way all this makes sense to me is that it's a facet of borderline personality disorder, which I won't get into here ... but, in short, my marriage is built on a shaky foundation, if there is a foundation at all.

[AndrewP]

ForGump - I might have a similar song to sing here. My own relationship had the same sort of thing.

I recognized fairly early on that my W used sex as a power and control thing and "got off" on being able to manipulate me by it. I recall seeing the look of triumph in her eyes after a particularly good session. Shortly after we were engaged our sex life also took a nose-dive. There were bumps up from time to time when she wanted something such as the house I am living in or our second child but otherwise it was "the duty". Since I loved her so very much I accepted this. Does my W actually have a strong sex drive? I don't know. Does your's? I know even less. Or is it in fact another drive that has an outlet via sex.

Analysis of this might be interesting but is it actually meaningful? Sorry - going through a bit of a rough patch at the moment myself.

[lt0402]

FG, you're not alone my friend. Ours followed a similar path (ravenous while dating, far, far less so when M) and once we had our D it fell off a cliff. Pre-BD it had actually been a long time since we'd had sex.

I also wonder if my M was built on the right things and if there ever was a foundation at all. I want to believe there was, but current state would point to that likely being wrong. Bleh

[ForGump]

Does yours [have a strong sex drive]?.... Or is it in fact another drive that has an outlet via sex.

AP/LT--

I think having some understanding of my W's personality/character is important, because it's an important part of the bigger picture that is the marriage itself. I recognize that there is the danger of being too much of an armchair psychiatrist or focusing on and blaming just my W while missing the big picture.

What drives her sex drive? It has taken me a long time to understand -- and even now I don't fully understand it -- that her sexuality is driven by a different set of needs and impulses than mine. Not entirely different, but there are different components. For her, being desired and feeling desirable is an extremely important part of her drive. We all have that, but for her it's extreme to an unhealthy degree. This relates to my belief that she suffers from some form of borderline personality disorder. Someone with BPD has such a poor/empty sense of self, that being desired by another person (not just sexually but in all social connections) is immensely pleasurable and satisfying.

I'm not saying this means that's the only way my wife can enjoy sex. To the contrary, I suspect she does have her "type" she'd have better romantic and sexual chemistry with. And that person is not me. But her BPD made her fall in love with me (and me with her), despite the fact that I'm not really her "type." In other words, if she didn't suffer from BPD, I believe she probably would not have fallen in love with me. And possibly me not with her, because she was extremely alluring and easy to get along with while we were dating; but once we were married she was extremely difficult to get along with, prone to sharp and sudden anger, and displaying much anxiety about minor things in life (especially uncertainties, however trivial they might be), and some OCD-like behavior.

So, to come back to AP's original question, does she have a strong sex drive? I believe she does, in the plain sense. She does want it often, and she does enjoy it. But I may be the wrong type. Or maybe I am her type, but her need to be intensely desired just cannot be met by someone whom she already possesses.

[PsySara]

Oh sex drive, what a fickle thing you are. Our sec life fell off the cliff when I became pregnant the first time. A big problem I had was WH only initiated physical affection when he wanted sex. I tried to hint (I should have given concrete examples instead of waiting on WH to mind read) and felt very resentful after a while.

I did the majority of housework and child care (on top of working) and frankly was p*ssed that WH didn't put in his share. I told him over and over again how I needed to feel more support on the homefront and I would have more energy for sex. He said he felt like I was giving him a list of chores.

Do I think you're your wife's "type?" You must be if there was ever good sex between you. I think you have to continue being the hot, sexy guy she met and she will have to work on her own demons. I started going to the gym recently (huge 180 for me) just to build energy and confidence. I want a firm, hot body for my own sake. (I am only 5'1 and 110 lbs so this isn't for weight loss just for building an athletic body)

[ForGump]

Sara, thanks for the vote of confidence. Yes, when we were dating I was completely convinced that I was her type. My mind was blown, totally blown, by how hot our chemistry felt. I thought, How could this be? How could it be SOOOOOO GOOD? Then we got married.

I have an athletic body type, I work out regularly, do outdoor sports, and am at a good weight. I have a good, steady full time job, and I am good with my kids and I totally pull my weight in housework. My W has been saying for a while now that I am the best husband she knows among all the husbands she knows, and recently she wrote me to say she loves me and will always loves me and cannot imagine a life without me yet she does not find me sexually attractive so she must divorce me.

[Gordie]

I'm sure you've read every book on sexual attraction. Why do you think she lost the sexual attraction? Have you guys ever seen a sex therapist? Your situation breaks my heart.