Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing?

[sandi2]

Well, at the moment, there is little spewing. I have been back in the MBR the last 2 nights without any problem. Let's see how this continues.

I have held back b/c I don't want to interfere with Surfer's help. I have not read the books he has referred. So, don't want to confuse by what I say in this post.

Looking from my viewpoint, you appear to be very accommodating, as your WW continues her A. It was left up to her, as to when you could return to the MBR, is that correct? And you returned, knowing the A continues? What is your plan about having sex, should she initiate?

IMHO, I don't think it is wise for the H to go back & forth to the MBR, or to do so based on the mood of his W. Perhaps I missed the details. To just state my own opinions in general (not necessarily about your situation), I believe the faithful S should have domain of the marital bedroom. If anyone leaves, it should be the betrayer. Based on how respect for the H affects the W's desire, I believe it is most important the H remain in the MBR (considering he is the faithful spouse). If his WW kicks him out of the MRB and he is concerned about things becoming volatile (as we have seen in previous times), I personally would not recommend that he ask his WW to let him know when he can return.

My reason here is b/c there should be a message in the action of the H staying in the marital bedroom. Actually, there are more than one message. It is all centered around respect for him as the head of the family, the man of the house, and the faithful one in the MR. His children connect the MBR with their parent's M. It has a negative impact to see the leader and protecter of the family kicked out of his MBR, b/c it suggests losing security in the home. It can cause doubt and worry about his strength and capabilities as head of the family.

Since some H's have already left the MBR by the time they find the DB board, and if he feels violence could occur if he goes back to the MBR, then I believe the message should be clear to his WW that it is done from his volition, and not b/c he was thrown out. The message to his WW should be that he chooses to not sleep with the woman who is betraying him. If he is already occupying another bedroom, and there is no way he feels he can safely go back to the MBR, then he needs to save as much respect as possible.

I have a big problem with men who reduce their position in the home, and go share a room with the kids or sleep in the basement. It is a visual lesson to the children, and one that may be applied whenever they get M.

So, getting back to when or how he should get back into the MBR. I am reminded of something MWD said, I may not know what to tell you to do.......but I can tell you what not to do. First of all, the H should not ask the betrayer if or when he may return to the MBR. And he especially should not ask more than once! If she has not ended her A, would it not be compromising his stand to begin sharing the bed of his betrayer? Secondly, he should not tell her to let him know when she is ready for him to return to the MBR. The H should not coddle a WW! And this gives her too much power over him. She has a wayward mindset, and the more she is coddled and the more the H accommodates her......the longer the disrespect will continue, and the more wayward behavior he will see.

Now as for today, they have been communicating from within the house. Rather than create a ruckus, when I brought her new phone downstairs at her request, there was a message from OM via Google hangouts on the lock screen.

You want to avoid conflict, so you accommodate her. From where I sit, it appears she gives the command and you follow orders. IMHO, that cancels out the message of respect.

So I took the opportunity to say to W that she had a message from OM and that did she remember me talking about the disrespect for me and the children by communicating from within the house, and did she understand what I meant by saying that it was disrespectful. She said she did and couldn't help if he messaged her.

She does understand what you meant. The lack of understanding is not her problem! She knows you are not going to do anymore than act passive-aggressive.

I left it for now. I just wanted to reinforce the message about lack of respect rather than get into a battle about consequences at this stage.

See what I mean?^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. It is easier for you to find an excuse not to cause a ruckus or get into a battle. Enforcing consequences is not particularly pleasant, but it is needed if you intend to live with her respect. She gave you an immediate example of how she doesn't care if she disrespects you. So just talking to her about it is not effective. Why would you get into a battle about consequences??? Consequences are not intended for a discussion, and they certainly are not left up to her (if I am understanding you meant.

[Bippy78]

To follow up on Sandi, you have found a backbone on what behavior you won't accept, but you are now lacking on boundaries.

I don't want to punch you on your journey, but boundaries are HUGE. With SO, she would call and become livid and curse at me, and I didn't just say, "You can't talk to me that way", which is a good way to be passive-aggressive, but THEN I followed up with a boundary, and said, "If you curse at me, and become nasty, I will hang up the phone. If you call back and do it again, I won't answer for two hours."

So, I'm not saying, "You can't curse at me." I'm not saying, "You can't be b1tchy". I'm saying, "MY ACTION will be hanging up." That's the difference between control and boundary.

[Woke_Up]

Bippy

And that's where I began with this thread - I can't think of a suitable consequence for this boundary.

And honestly, I'm not going to stop feeling disrespected if she goes out of the house to communicate, because let's face it, carrying on with the EA is very disrespectful.

And last time, by blocking the skype connection, people have said that I was in fact being controlling, as I was making it about her rather than me.

So what to do. She knows I'm not happy. Earlier when she tried to kiss me and I wasn't overly responsive she asked what the matter was and I said it was her continuing disrespect to me & the family. She lied about it but I told her not to bother lying as it just devalued her and me.

Anyway, she just asked if I wanted to ML and I said no. She asked why and I Said because she was disrespecting me and the kids. Again she said she wasn't, but then she left it.

I think the only boundary I can have is not acting like I am in a MR with her - it is difficult because we live together, have children, etc etc.

I get Sandi's points - this has been going on way before the EA, and I need to address it.

[Woke_Up]

I have held back b/c I don't want to interfere with Surfer's help. I have not read the books he has referred. So, don't want to confuse by what I say in this post.

Looking from my viewpoint, you appear to be very accommodating, as your WW continues her A. It was left up to her, as to when you could return to the MBR, is that correct? And you returned, knowing the A continues? What is your plan about having sex, should she initiate?

Up to now it has been both. In your view should it be the WW or the H? Or actually should it be just forget ML while this continues? I struggle with the various concepts, some of which seem to be related to a non Affair / EA situation. I am trying to focus on making myself a better person, being a good dad for my kids,

IMHO, I don't think it is wise for the H to go back & forth to the MBR, or to do so based on the mood of his W. Perhaps I missed the details.

I had been out of the MBR for many, many months before I knew about the EA, as D was getting up in the night, and I found it less disturbing to be close to her than to have her get up and come to our room.

Now where I can see I did screw up more recently was after I had gone back in for a couple of weeks, then allowed myself to be guilted out after an argument - she was originally going to move out to the spare room, but guilted me into moving back out.

My reason here is b/c there should be a message in the action of the H staying in the marital bedroom. Actually, there are more than one message. It is all centered around respect for him as the head of the family, the man of the house, and the faithful one in the MR.

In truth, I think that respect was not there before hand.

If he is already occupying another bedroom, and there is no way he feels he can safely go back to the MBR, then he needs to save as much respect as possible.

I refused to go back to the spare room. My rationale was that while I was looking after D it was OK, but after she wanted to be in MBR with her mother (D changes her mind on a regular basis as to whether it is Mummy or Daddy she wants to be around), there was no reason to stay.

She has a wayward mindset, and the more she is coddled and the more the H accommodates her......the longer the disrespect will continue, and the more wayward behavior he will see.

I guess I have been very coddling. Still am. My stand was that I would take the study as my room. WW didn't want this, so I am back in MBR. I guess you are saying I shouldn't have worried about the MBR by this stage and just stuck to my guns - especially given the fact that I had only been in there a couple of months total since we bought this house last year.

You want to avoid conflict, so you accommodate her. From where I sit, it appears she gives the command and you follow orders. IMHO, that cancels out the message of respect.

That would be about summing it up. Now I think I understand a bit of how it got this way from the reading material Surfer has pointed me to, but that change will be a long slow journey to break habits that have been established many years, and in all honesty I am struggling to bring the various elements of DBing, breaking the drama triangle/verbal abuse cycle and setting firm boundaries and consequences without them conflicting with each other.

Ultimately, what consequences does she face? I leave the house. I still have to pay for everything, so apart from having to do more stuff when I'm not there, she can carry on unaffected. I stay in the house - I have not worked out suitable consequences for protecting my boundaries. If I sound confused and all over the place, that's because I am.

She does understand what you meant. The lack of understanding is not her problem! She knows you are not going to do anymore than act passive-aggressive.

See what I mean?^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. Consequences are not intended for a discussion, and they certainly are not left up to her (if I am understanding you meant.

I do, and thanks for your blunt words, I jut honestly don't have a clue about enforcing boundaries for my own protection and self respect in this situation.

[sandi2]

You have a S16. Does he know where boundaries are drawn for his behavior/actions?

[Woke_Up]

I'd say yes, the majority of them. Doesn't stop him pushing them all the time then getting the consequences.

I've just gone back and re-read your LBS thread, Sandi, and it looks like I've done the opposite of what I should have done. In effect I have managed to unseparate our sleeping arrangements - whereas I should have actually enforced the separateness and cut off the affection that I show. I now think that I should have stuck with my plan of taking the study as my space, my room - I wasn't in the MBR anyway, nothing of mine is in here, has never been in here, as since moving to this house, W pretty much claimed the available space and my things were put in the spare room - I didn't think it was an issue at the time, as it meant I wouldn't disturb her when I got up early for work.

Ashamed to admit I have been a total p##sy since we came to this house.

The reason I worry about separation is 2 fold:
1. The kids. I won't see them as much/be there for them.
2. Financial - it will be really difficult to afford somewhere decent where I can have D or S stay over, and DBing didn't recommend moving out. W has no income of her own other than through 'working' for my company ( I'm self employed) - she is also a shareholder of it. This made sense for tax reasons but makes it difficult to separate finances - I effectively provide all income to the household, she takes care of home and D while I am out at work. The same reason it makes it difficult for me not to enable her EA. she gets money for the shopping or housebtnings or whatever - that can easily go to cover her phone costs or even internet connection costs if she so desired.

She has always maintained she still loves me throughout this and has maintained affection/sex life etc. I can see I am quite often confusing trying to be a better man with trying to be a better H.

[Bippy78]

Meh, XW was super affectionate while she used my credit card; when I finally cut off her financing from my successful business, she was like "Oh wait, you aren't financing my life?"

Honestly, it was one of the biggest/stand-up moments in my life. And she started her PA shortly after, desperately seeking anyone to continue her false life of shopping and feeling good...

Just saying...

[Cadet]

Please start a new thread

[Woke_Up]

New thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2722974&#Post2722974