Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing?

[Woke_Up]

Ta

[Woke_Up]

Remember, the purpose of your boundaries are to protect yourself emotionally/mentally/physically. For example, I am sure you feel terribly disrespected when your W contacts EAP, especially when you and the kids are home.

That is exactly it, and I have said it in those terms before to WW.

You could say, "When you communicate with your EAP, it causes me to feel disrespected. I will not be disrespected in my own house". You might not want to limit it to just the house, and say, "I will not be disrespected". You have told her how it makes you feel. Your boundary is about not being disrespected. That should be the focus or point.

I did that today. I didn't set any specific consequences other than saying I wouldn't be disrespected or have my children and family home disrespected. This evening I told her that I couldn't consider myself in R with her while she continued to be so disrespectful and contact OM.

You have an obligation to yourself to protect that boundary. The next time you see her communicating with the OM, how can you protect your feelings of being disrespected?

That's a good point. Today I did that by saying I couldn't be in R while it continued, while she was in R with OM.

Just think about yourself. What could you do to defend yourself when experiencing disrespect?

Emotional distance seems to work. I am getting to understand more about detaching, Vanilla made it make sense to me. By feeling that I am not in R while she continues, even though I want to save R. I am not hurting so much at the minute, which is good. However, I have also not got myself out of situation where I am still leaned on (family life is pretty much BAU), so I do feel that I am still being a bit too soft maybe.

Have you ever had to stand up for yourself, face a bully, deal with disrespect in some other form from someone else? What did you do?

Good point. Face to face, deep breath, and stand my ground. Call them out on it. Have done it before in various situations, but found it so much more difficult with my MR.

Considering your W's bold defiance and telling you she has no intentions of ending her contacts with the OM.......would I be wrong to think she has shown disrespect in other ways in the M? You may have thought it wasn't worth dealing with at that moment, or she'd accuse you of making too much out of it.....or you'd shrugg it off. You felt that keeping the peace was more important than having a fight about her tone of voice, eye rolling, heavy sighs, foot tapping, sarcasm, cursing, being rude in front of others, making you look like a dummy in front of your children.........the list is endless. It may have started out in a more less offensive behavior and over time it grew. Maybe it is so bad that her contemp shows in how she speaks to you, or the expression on her face, her body language, etc.

God I wish you were wrong, but you are hitting he nail on the head in so many ways. And conversely I think I am guilty as well. Little digs, disguised in humour, but really not funny, that type of thing. We should have addressed many things, many times over the years, but haven't.

Unfortunate, the nice guy H usually won't call out this type of bad behavior in his W, and her disrespect grows and she begins showing more and more rebellion toward him and the MR.

I agree, although I think that semi passive and not very good with confrontation rather than nice guy would be a better description. I don't avoid confrontation, it's just that I wasn't used to so much of it and to her it was normal for R, I tended to shy away, or want to get out into another room and avoid blowing up - WW is the opposite, and me leaving just made things worse.

Btw, don't offer to tell your WW other ways she can contact OM! Don't make deals about her continuing an EA. Don't accept the responsibility for herEA.

I've taken the view that at the moment I am not going to interfere in means of communication, or involuntarily aid and abet her. My mind, over the past 2 days, with the aid of this site and the books I have been reading, and kind posters such as yourself, has become much clearer, about focusing on myself and my kids. I am working on a plan to be the person I want to be whatever happens. I have been so so unfocused and all over the place lately, I need to get my head right for work, kids, and me.




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[Woke_Up]

V, your examples really do make so much sense to me, although I do feel for you having to have gone through the experience to need to set them.

With the skype thing, as it is mostly IM rather than VOIP, I don't so much hear it as catch her using it when I walk in a room, or have seen the domain been accessed via OpenDNS (originally used to keep teenage son off unsuitable websites, but also gave me far too much inclination to snoop). It was the knowledge that was driving me mad, that she would keep doing such a thing in our home, when I am there. What really made me angry was that she has involved him in our lives sent pics of the kids, etc etc. I blew up at her the time I found that out and made her delete the pic I had seen on her Skype, but because she deletes her convo history regularly, she couldn't delete the other pics she had sent in the past. The thought of some random weirdo having photo's of my children... well I expect you know how I feel.

The house is in joint names, we have separate accounts, and I pay mortgage and all bills, she tends to do the food shopping etc. I work as a contractor/consultant, and I employ her as an admin (works for tax reasons) and she is also 25% shareholder of my company. As pointed out elsewhere, I could make her start paying for her own connection, but the consequence is really just the ball-ache of doing it rather than financial, as it all comes from my employment anyway.

I really like your approach to the MBR issue though. I will be going there. I haven't pushed it yet, other than to tell her I will be moving back in there before Christmas. I was in there last night, but this morning she was talking about putting the spare double bed (currently in my daughter's room) into the spare room. I said fine, but there was no way I was going in that room, I had been in there a while before )as it was next to my daughter's room) and was in there when I found out about EA, and psychologically I would struggle going back in there. I stated that I could stay in MBR or stay in looking after my daughter. So I am in daughter's room tonight, although daughter changed mind and went into mummy's room at last minute, so I'm feeling a bit of a lemon.

I'll try and post on today's events, it will help me rationalise them.

[Vanilla]

The private pictures of the kids is very upsetting indeed, I understand this. FB pictures etc are somewhat public and likely innocuous.

Sadly I doubt you can stop her, you may wish to say if she sends private pictures of the kids you will research this guys background and if he has a criminal record etc. You can do that: might be a consequence to keep in the bag.

If you have the INTEL on this guy, you might find out more about him. You would need the INTEL first. It doesn't cost much to do in fact if you have the full name, age and dob. All usually on FB. I recommend you ask someone you know well in IT. That's how I found out so much about the Giggalo OW9, except he is now on OW10. So cutting her off at the pass might not make sense. The Giggalo was on the family iPad and I didn't tell him I could read all his messages, in fact for his birthday in March 2015, he had a new iPad and just left his old one (which was the Master ipad) and it had all the set ups on it. It no longer works because of apple upgrades so I set up an ipad2 with his stuff.

I switched to Samsung!

You would need info such as where he lives to know if he has a criminal record. Even if he is real. Could be a con man after money. Anything is possible, or have a string of OW.

Might be a lovely lovely man from Afghanistan, a soldier. Ha.

I am always a cynic about these things. So cutting her ability to send this guy your family cash is important. He can likely research her asset worth if she is a director of your company. You may wish to change that too.

I understand the UK tax structure, it's what I do for a living so it makes sense that you have a salary plus dividend structure.

Waywards and scrambled eggs for brains. Never ceases to amaze me.

The males are as bad as the females!

V

[Woke_Up]

Today has been a mixed bag.

I spent last night in MBR, as planned, with having guest bed taken for visitor.

It was fine, maybe a bit too comfortable. We were under our individual covers, so not too close physically although at one point in the night I realised I had put my hand out to her.

Then this morning, WW asked if I wanted to have sex... I declined, mainly because of my vas reversal operation, It's too soon anyway. I'm not sure I would have had the fortitude to say no otherwise if I am brutally honest. IT just throws me that she wants to tell me we don't have an R on Friday because I am controlling her by blocking her Skype access, then is telling OM she loves him via Google hangouts, then she wants me also.

Even though I knew I was being too close, I could keep my mind more objective. It felt like she was wanting to keep a foot in both camps, or really to have her cake and eat it.

Later that morning she said that she was going to get our son to help move the spare double bed from D's room to the spare room. That caused the first ruckus. I said there was no way I was ever going back in that spare room. I could continue to stay in the MBR, as it had been fine, and it was my room as well, or I was happy to stay in with D and look after her when she wakes up in the night (I'm a light sleeper, WW isn't). She wouldn't have that, said I was been unfair to our daughter, I shouldn't be in her room, and anyway she was going to have a friend staying round so I couldn't be in then anyway, trying to make it me being awkward and causing friction.

I did tell her that I would be moving back into MBR at some point, and was intending to do so before Christmas. She could stay in if she liked.

The day was a combination of usual family BAU, various snide comments and bickering followed by periods of acting as if nothing was wrong. When I told her that I found what she was doing disrespectful, she didn't seem to care, and when I described what she was doing as an affair, she would keep saying 'I'm not having an affair', refusing to acknowledge the EA as an A.

Then later, after dinner, she asked me if I had been onto her phone in the night and accessed her skype. I hadn't, and told her so. When I said I wasn't lying she said 'someone is' and 'you're being framed then' - all a bit cryptic but sounds like OM is trying to stir it up by lying to her and blame me. She knows I don't bother lying to her. I'll either be honest or say I don't want to discuss it. She also said that she would be cutting contact with OM, slowly but surely!!! I despair sometimes.

Later in the evening, and I don't know how it came up, she even had the gall to say that I could come back in the MBR, when she was ready, just not yet! I really struggled not to react to that one. I know neither of us are angels but she is no way the victim in this one.

I think it was shortly after that I informed her that I couldn't feel in R with her while she continued to communicate with OM in the house and continue her EA. She didn't like that, but used it as another reason why I couldn't come back into MBR. I said that I would be coming back in there, and that it was my home too.

Then later at bedtime, once D was asleep and WW had got into bed, she wanted me to give her a kiss. I did after a second ask. She then said I neglected her, and I agreed but that it was difficult at the moment. She then said she meant before the EA had started. I acknowledge that and that we had both done many things that were wrong and that we would need to work on together in the future, once EA is severed and we are working on our R. I told WW wife that she was putting EA first, thinking it was more important than our R. She said it wasn't. I said if that was true, she would have ended it.

Really feels like she wants to have cake and eat it. Also feels like she will want to sweep it under rug once it is over, and basically ignore he turmoil and upheaval it has caused. I'm sure she has convinced herself she is the victim in all of this. When I told her it would take a long time to work things out, once the EA was over, she was all 'no it won't , we can soon be back to how things were'... No way. I let her know that 'how things were' was obviously not working, and we both needed to fix a lot of things, most probably with professional help. She wasn't receptive to this idea either. Apparently we are British, we don't need to use therapists! probably explains why we're so screwed up over here!

Last thing she wanted me to hold her and kiss her, but I told her I couldn't while things were like they were. She went a bit cooler after that, but I think in a more understanding sort of way. Things are different, this isn't a game, and it wan't about me being angry and trying to get at her. It would have been the easiest thing in the world for me to hold her, but where would that leave me? Would just open me up for more pain the next time something bad happens. Not sure if this is detachment, or distance or what, but felt like the right thing for me.

D

[Woke_Up]

I switched to Samsung!

WW wants to do that. Her iPhone is on way out and she has figured that I am on top of all the syncing between devices that goes on.

You would need info such as where he lives to know if he has a criminal record. Even if he is real. Could be a con man after money. Anything is possible, or have a string of OW.

Seems to be real, have done all that already. Name, address, dob, phone. HAven't bothered with background check yet. Apparently he has offered to send her money so she can 'get away'... I'm sure she has given him the tale of how tragic it is she is trapped with me.[/quote]

I am always a cynic about these things. So cutting her ability to send this guy your family cash is important. He can likely research her asset worth if she is a director of your company. You may wish to change that too.

She is not a director, just a shareholder, and I never gave her access to the company account. But yes, OM has searched internet, and Companies House gives far too much info out publicly, so he has our address, company details, turnover, knows she is a shareholder etc. I think worst case scenario is that she is squirrelling money away so she can fly out to see him, although he has threatened to fly over here to hand out an 'ass whopping' to me in the past.

I don't trust him though. The guys really has nothing going for him, and nothing to lose in pursuing this. He also knows that if we split and sell the house that WW will be sitting on some cash. The messages I have seen from him strike me as pure manipulation, but I am looking at it from an outside perspective. Even WW has described it as a form of attention, flattery and guilt. But she knows this and still chooses to continue, still chooses to believe that it might be love, on some days convinced it is love. Brain chemicals eh? THis looks to me completely like limerance, possibly a bit of MLC involved. Her 'withdrawal symptoms' on Friday night convinced me.

Waywards and scrambled eggs for brains. Never ceases to amaze me.

The males are as bad as the females!

V

Amen to that

[Vanilla]

Well done.

You are setting your boundaries, just acknowledge she objects too, validation.

I can see why you say that.

Yes it's two sided.

I want us to work on our R and take our time.

My body is still recovering from my op WW, I am taking great care.

----------------

No use of the word but, as it invalidates the previous Validation.


You got this.

V

[Cristy]

Thanks Cristy

I'll find a convenient time when I have some privacy, and can work the time zones - you're 7 hrs behind the UK

Hello Woke_Up,

Yes, we have a 7 hour time difference. I'll be here today until midnight your time.

I'm looking forward to speaking with you. I'm confident that we will be able to find a time that works nicely for you even though there is a bit of a time difference.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[Woke_Up]

Thank you, Vanilla, you really have helped, am starting to get a clearer mind.

[Woke_Up]

Well, it has been a fairly quiet couple of days, very little drama. I'm back at work after my op.

Yesterday WW & I exchanged some texts, she sent me a nice pic of me & D. Then she said she needed help... with 'the problem' as she put it. Her anxiety had been bad the previous night, like a heart attack.

I replied "My thoughts, if you want them... it is inextricably linked with your anxiety. Among other things, it probably started easing it, made you feel less alone and isolated. The thought of removing it is like the thought of removing your medicine, never mind the removal of the other addictive aspects.
You just have to know that you are not alone, not isolated - we have lots of issues to work out, work together to rebuild our relationship to be better and stronger than it was, than we ever thought it could be. I know we can do that. We can do anything we put our minds to. Xx"

Maybe too much, I don't know.

She also said she felt messed up in the head and and said reading some of the affair recovery info on the web 'really messes with you'.

I told her she needed a plan to cope once she made her decision, and have friends, strategies, temptation resisting techniques etc, but she probably knew that already.

She felt that actually doing it was the problem (I assume she meant cutting off EA) and also the tantrum that would ensue from OM. She then said that she just needed me to look after her, and that she was a little deranged.

At that point I let her know I had a copy of Torn Asunder (under my pillow), hadn't started reading it yet but she might find it useful.

I also told her that the doing was something that she had to be ready to commit to, and that she could approach it in such a way that she didn't have to suffer OM tantrums, just take the advice of various ending affair web sites (NC letter, cut off comms etc). I told her I couldn't help her to come to that decision, I'd tried and failed and been pushing her further away, but that I am there and will be there to work on us & making things better afterwards, that I chose her for life.

I mean it all, but it feels like I am being too much of a support for her to lean on? She needs to get to the right place mentally herself. Everything I read says I am the last person who should give her advice, but I don't think she will talk to anyone else now. That said, in the context we were talking, I don't think it immediately pushed her away or was dismissed by her.

When I got home she had been reading the book, she was fairly tired. We didn't talk too much, just exchanged some pleasantries. She had moved some furniture around, and instead of my usual 'why did you bother' response, or "why didn't you wait for me do do the heavy stuff", etc. I told her that it looked good with what she had done with it, and started to ask her about what she wanted to do next, what colour was she thinking of painting it, etc. I'm starting to realise that I usually focus on my own feelings about stuff first before realising and appreciating what she has done. Sometimes I won't like it, but sometimes, I will, and I should make that known.

I've been reading DR, set some goals, now up to Step 6. I need to go back and do some revision, and maybe refine my goals a bit. Starting to think about the small changes I can make about how I handle things that will make me feel better about myself and will probably make WW feel better about me - gain some confidence in myself & my abilities again. I haven't lost it all, but I know I am not firing on all cylinders at the moment.

Today has been quiet again, just a few text messages regarding children, train delays, and reminding her about her blood test (related to anxiety, in case there is anything else at play).

Work was better also. I felt my head was screwed on again, felt more focussed. I need to be because the last few months have been way off due to the home situation.

I know I'm not out of the woods, no corners have been turned, and bad days will inevitably follow, but hopefully good days too. Until the point she has terminated EA, and opened up to me again. She is really conscious about her privacy and detests the fact that I snooped and looked at her comms to OM on her phone, likening it to reading her diary, or violating her human rights. My ability to trust is shaken, so if she keeps me locked out, I will suspect the worst.

These are challenges for the days ahead.

Thank you everyone on this forum. I shall keep on with DR, keep on with detachment, and try and get the hang of distancer/pursuer, as I feel I am still being a bit too eager at times.