Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing?

[ForGump]

Oops, I wrote:

But she is not saying, through her affair, that she no longer wants to be your lover/partner.

I mean to write:

But she ***is*** saying, through her affair, that she no longer wants to be your lover/partner.

[Woke_Up]

Hello Woke_up,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

Yes, don't leave the house. You are questioning how to move back into the MBR without being confrontational. Let a DB Coach help you with that and many other things you described.

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

Thanks Cristy

I'll find a convenient time when I have some privacy, and can work the time zones - you're 7 hrs behind the UK

[Woke_Up]

What are the ages of you and your partner? You referred to the children, what are their ages?

Thanks for the reply, Sandi. I am 46, she is 34. We have a daughter, 4 and a son 16 (my step son in reality, but he's my son)

I hope you won't see me copying a post I sent to another member as arrogance on my part. The subject is mostly about boundaries and consequences vs control and punishment.

Two cards the WW plays the most are the "guilt card" and the "control card". She will try to make the LBH feel guilty as a way to manipulate him. If he sets a boundary, she screams that he's controlling. LBS need not to explain where he stands or expound on what he said (as many LBH's have a tendency to do). The WW is using these cards to manipulate and get her way. The H needs to ignore these accusations.

That seems to be what is happening. Then she is softening her approach again. This morning she is being nice. But she has just taken her conversation to Google Hangouts instead of Skype...

I feel there may some who do not fully understand boundaries in a M. I can see how it could be misinterpreted as trying to control the other spouse. First of all, control is all about your spouse, and what she does, what she feels, etc. Control is keeping track of where she is every hour, who she talked to.......on & on. If she does not do it your way, then you punish her by giving the silent treatment, yelling at her or whatever. Control comes from fear; co-dependency; anger; inferiority; ...........on & on.

Thanks. That is why I am struggling. I don't really hold any cards in handing out that sort of punishment and don't want to anyway. Yelling at each other and having an atmosphere isn't good for us or the kids.

Boundaries are all about you. Boundaries are your limits. They are set in place by you...to protect you.....emotionally, mentally, & physically. Boundaries come from self-respect; dignity; freedom; values; integrity; & protection. They are not used to control or punish the your W for not choosing to do things your way.

Since honoring your boundary requires respect from the WW.........simply stating your boundary, may not be effective. Whatever your WW is doing that is hurting you, the benefits she receives for violating your boundary may outweigh respecting your boundary. (WW's are very resistant to the H's boundaries). So at this point, you need to enforce consequences. I did a little homework on the subject, so the list below reflects what I read.

It appears I have no way of enforcing my boundary - which is that she does not communicate with the EAP while in the house, especially while I or the kids are there. Unless I cut off the internet entirely, which hurts the kids as well - that would seem punitive. As ForGump said, even if I enforce the consequence, because of the shared money and budget, does it really make sense as she can still use her phone, put in another internet line, etc. It is just making her responsible for those particular bills and while she has happy for me to handle those sorts of things, she is more than capable if she has to.

A consequence is an effect, or result, of an action from you. You need to establish an appropriate consequence for your WW's disrespect, so that she will experience some type of discomfort due to her total negligence/irresponsibility and disrespect of your boundary. Otherwise, your boundary will not be effective. A consequence needs to have some very important characteristics:

1. Boundaries and consequences are not about fixing your spouse, or making her choose better. They are about allowing appropriate cause and effect so that she will experience the pain of irresponsibility, and then change.
2. Be deliberate and not impulsive........or set in anger. Think it through, and maybe post on the board to get other view points of what an appropriate effect might be. It is not about getting even. It is about getting out of enabling the wayward spouse, and about protecting yourself from her wayward behavior.
3. Make sure this is something you can and will do. You need to make sure you have the power and resources to set the limit. Don't make threats.
4. Remember your spouse has freedom of choice. Don’t set a consequence by saying, “You have to,” “You must,” or, “I will make you. . . .” Consequences are not something you do to control your spouse. They are reactions to her choices. Let her make her choices, but prepare your reactions.
5. The consequence should be immediate as possible. Just as kids need quick consequences, so does your WW. (Not that she's a child.....it's just an example). She can make the association between her action and the results if they are close together in time.
6. You want reality to be your WW's instructor, as much as possible. For example, a WW who becomes enraged should have her H and children leave her presence, right then, for a while. No one wants to be around her when she's having tantrums. This is preferable to an unrelated consequence, such as leaving her alone to watch the kids an extra evening while you go out to GAL.
7. Stay away from humiliating or punitive consequences such as making fun of her or making sarcastic remarks.
8. Consequences don’t have to be forever. As your WW takes responsibility and repents, you can change the consequences. However, be sure that change has truly occurred over some period of time. Just saying “I’m sorry” is not enough to let go of consequences. The other side of this, however, is that you may have to escalate the severity of the consequence if your WW behaves worse.
9. Boundaries are not ultimatums.

Does this help to understand boundaries a bit more? I hope you won't hesitate in asking questions.

It helps, but in this particularly sitch, I am struggling to find a consequence to fit the boundary that I have. As you suggest above, I will think and deliberate, and maybe get some feedback.





[/quote]

[Woke_Up]

You & your girlfriend are biological parents to a girl about 5 years old. Right?

Yep.

You work 14 hours a day while your girlfriend stays home with your girl, and does some part time work for your business. Right?

Yep, including the commute. I guess the real reason she is employed is that it is tax efficient, her main role is looking after the home / children.

Do you live in state where your relationship is or may be recognized as a common law marriage? (Search the web for info).

We live in the UK. Common law is not recognised, however having a child together does bring with it significant responsibilities.

Assuming you are not in a common law marriage, and therefore she has no direct claim on your money, you could decide that you don't want to materially support any part of her affair.

But I think this is where Sandi2's point is important. Cutting off the money might be the easiest action to take -- and it may well end up being the right action -- but you have to start with the idea of protecting your feelings and dignity, as opposed to trying to control your girlfriends behavior. I think there is a subtle but important difference.

I don't see an easy answer, when you have lives that are entangled, and explicit and implicit agreement exists to run a household together.[quote=ForGump]

That's exactly where I am at. I don't feel that it's MY money or anything like that. It's ours. One of the reasons I went self employed was to enable her not to have to go out to work and let her spend more time with our daughter, it's not that I don't value what she is doing or feel she isn't entitled to anything.

[quote=ForGump]Cutting off payment for one mode of communication (say, the Internet) while paying for her phone -- that feels punitive and controlling to me. If you stop paying for her phone but then you share money to pay for groceries, then what prevents her from just paying for the phone out of those funds? If so, then your actions just become a petty game.

I think that's where this will end up. We live in the countryside, so her cell phone reception isn't that good, but quite often it's good enough. This morning she just went onto Google Hangouts instead of Skype to carry on. I still have her google account on my phone from way back when this was first discovered and she set up an alternative account - I found it out. I should probably focus on not looking any more, but it's difficult to not want to know what she's up to.

I'm not sure what the right thing is, but I think you have to back up a little and look at the big picture. You and she have settled into an agreement that you work outside the home and bring in money, and she mostly stays home and takes care of your daughter, and that makes sense for a couple who love each other. But she *is* saying, through her affair, that she no longer wants to be your lover/partner. She's crossed the boundary of that mutually understood relationship by having this affair. What should you do to protect your feelings and dignity?

The million dollar question. How do I do anything that stops me acting as an enabler, when in reality everything is so intertwined. I'm sitting here half contemplating moving her stuff into the spare room and mine back into the MBR, but again, is that petty? Does it really protect my dignity? Certainly, it's a consequence and it will definitely cause friction.

Do I say we put the house up for sale? she would probably have to agree to this as it is in joint names anyway. And then, if we sell it, where does that leave us? Both in a worse position and living apart. I suspect at some point she will probably take a jaunt to the states to meet the EAP, and then decide whether she really likes him or not. She's talked about that in the past, needing to meet him to know if her feelings are real. I'm not sure a brief vacation is going to make any difference. I've also said that if she did that, then the R is over. I'm not going to be her 2nd choice or safety net, although I feel like I am still a bit of a safety net at the moment.

I am finding it difficult to think of a suitable consequence without me leaving the home. I have already decided that that would be a bad idea, as well as financially difficult - I would still have to pay for everything anyway.

Some thinking needed.

[Cadet]

It appears I have no way of enforcing my boundary - which is that she does not communicate with the EAP while in the house, especially while I or the kids are there.

You can't stop her from communicating with him, all you can do is tell her that it is inappropriate and you will not be in a relationship with her when she is in a relationship with someone else.
So what does that mean?
You get to decide.

She is involved in affair fog and there is no way that she just snaps out of it.

You need to protect yourself and your child.
You need to be the best DAD that you can possibly be.

Sometimes the best thing to do when you have no clue what to do is NOTHING.
Sit back and close your mouth, open your eyes and ears and watch what is happening.
The answers will start to come to you as you learn.

Knowledge is indeed power.

[Woke_Up]

It appears I have no way of enforcing my boundary - which is that she does not communicate with the EAP while in the house, especially while I or the kids are there.

You can't stop her from communicating with him, all you can do is tell her that it is inappropriate and you will not be in a relationship with her when she is in a relationship with someone else.
So what does that mean?
You get to decide.

She is involved in affair fog and there is no way that she just snaps out of it.

You need to protect yourself and your child.
You need to be the best DAD that you can possibly be.

Sometimes the best thing to do when you have no clue what to do is NOTHING.
Sit back and close your mouth, open your eyes and ears and watch what is happening.
The answers will start to come to you as you learn.

Knowledge is indeed power.

Cadet, thank you. That last paragraph is the simple wisdom I need.

I may as well stop trying to do anything about the internet. Making her find another way or pay for another internet connection isn't really a consequence in our situation. I just didn't want to feel like an enabler, but I guess in a world we have assumed everything is joint, it's less relevant, and gives her ammunition in the 'treating me like a child' argument.

I need to think about what not being in R means to me and how to approach it with WW.

At the minute she is trying to treat me as usual. Nice when it suits her, not so nice when it doesn't - like today, I have been trying to distance/detach - so when she sent me a 'nice' text as if nothing had happened last night, I responded briefly without the reciprocal kisses at the end. She assumed I was still in a mood and then started getting a bit shirty with me at home. She still gets me to react a bit, not too badly this time.

Damn, it's tough. I thought the shock and stress of the last few months was bad, but I feel that learning to focus on being a better person and best dad I can be while keeping detached from WW is going to be even more difficult... minus the sleepless nights and not eating though! I'm past that stage. 👍

[Cadet]

At the minute she is trying to treat me as usual. Nice when it suits her, not so nice when it doesn't - like today, I have been trying to distance/detach - so when she sent me a 'nice' text as if nothing had happened last night, I responded briefly without the reciprocal kisses at the end. She assumed I was still in a mood and then started getting a bit shirty with me at home. She still gets me to react a bit, not too badly this time.

Damn, it's tough. I thought the shock and stress of the last few months was bad, but I feel that learning to focus on being a better person and best dad I can be while keeping detached from WW is going to be even more difficult... minus the sleepless nights and not eating though! I'm past that stage. 👍

OK - suggestion - read the pursuit and distance thread, and apply that to what you have written above.

[Vanilla]

Cadet is spot on

And you do what you do for YOU, the effects on your WW are largely a sidebar.

Becoming the best you can be for you and as a dad is so special, it is that which is always going to be a winner.

Detaching means that you do this irrespective of the effect on your M, fine if it improves, fine if it does not.

You and you as a dad will always be a winner when you plough maximum efforts into you.

It's a rough time, so big hugs

V

[Vanilla]

I refer to this as an M, common law M if there is a child.

So I am adding an abbreviation CMLR for my future use.

Aide Memoir V bookmark.

V

[Cadet]

Looks like I forgot this post.

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.