New here, currently reading first chapter of DR, but in need of advice.
My partner of over 6years (we are not married, were planning on tying the knot, but these troubles started before we got round to it) is currently engaged in an EA with a man in another country.
She first made contact on social media, while looking for like minded people. We were having arguments at the time regarding fairly important issues (political/societal what effects they would have on the kids - I won't go into the details here).
She took this new friendship to Skype, it became inappropriate. She told me this and that she had stopped it. She then tried to talk to me later about how she was missing her friend, but I was unable to deal with it emotionally, so didn't explore further other than saying that it made ME unhappy that she had those feelings. I missed the signals to work on what was wrong.
In July I saw a social media message on her timeline from the EAP saying he had got her messages and loved and missed her too. I was then suspicious, so abot a month later, I checked her phone, and her skype was open, saying she loved the EAP.
I was furious. I message the EAP told him to leave my wife alone (we always describe each other as husband and wife). He had not known she was in a relationship. She then went back to him with a ridiculous story about how I was an ex still living with her due to the house. She told me she had stopped it. A couple of weeks later I found out she was at it again.
I took to all the wrong things, paranoid, spying on her internet activity. At one point I told her it wasn't fair and I couldn't go on, and she arranged to delete her account and block his email. But then she accused me of forcing her to do it. Because it was a skype account, the deactivation didn't happen for 2 months, and as the time was getting close, she kept accusing me of controlling her - so I said she could do what she wanted and reactivate it at any time, I wasn't forcing her. So she did.
She immediately set up a new email account, which I discovered. We had a bust up.
I even emailed the EAP a couple of times, once to try and rationalise him into going away, once to prove that we were a couple and he was interloping, and the third time just to wind him up that we were still together (he is a single man, not much going for him, seems quire manipulative from the comms I have seen, but it could also just be that he is in limerance too. I really don't actually care about him, have realised it's time to stop seeing him as the enemy)
When this started I was already i a separate bedroom - my daughter kept getting up in the night, and as I get up at 5am for work, it was easier for me to be closer to her rather than getting totally disturbed. I moved back in a few weeks ago, but due to me not sleeping well, and trying to look at her phone in the night, we had another major argument which ended up in her buying another bed for the spare room, but then guilting me into moving out. My daughter is now back in the MBR with her.
Since then she's tried to end it, but not succeeded. She feels in love with him. She says she loves me. But she is not committed to ending it and fixing us. I believe she is in an addictive/limerance phase.
My spying and invading her privacy has made things worse. I have blocked the internet on occasions and this has led to arguments.
I have asked her not to message him when I am at home, but she refuses, because of the 5 hour time difference, that means she would only have a short window to communicate with him. I have asked her to take her comms outside the house out of respect, but she won't, saying it is her home too.
So last night, trying to apply boundaries, I blocked skype again. This has led to another argument this morning. She tells me she won't be infantilised, and that the R is over now due to me trying to control it. I told her that I wasn't preventing here doing anything, she could use her mobile phone signal to skype, she can get another internet line put in, but I couldn't passively or actively enable her infidelity.
She refuses to acknowledge this. She now says that since I have claimed the internet, as she puts it, she is claiming 'her bedroom'. I had been planning on moving back in, since my daughter is in there, and it's still me that has to deal with her in the night. I thought that she could leave to the new bed she bought, and go to the spare room seeing as she is not facing any consequences of her actions at the minute.
So, have I acted in a controlling manner by blocking skype, and making her actively seek out ways to communicate, or is that a boundary?
Immediate response is bad - R is over, worried about money, she will move out when she is ready and take her children with her.... OUR children. She is concerned because she doesn't work, other than being employed through mu company, I go out to work, and due to long commute am out 14 hours a day. I am self employed.
Help and advice needed. Very worried. But want to save this R and look myself in the mirror.
D
-- Me: 47 WW: 35 SS: 17 D: 5 T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016. OEA continues (with occasional breaks) BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you for the quick response. I will keep on with the DR book - I started this morning.
Thanks for the threads to review - I will read. Detachment is hard. I have told her already that I am willing to fight for our R.
GAL is the hardest bit for me - I actually need to make a plan. My work commute means I am get up at 5 and get home at 7:30, then put my daughter to bed, read to her, then eat - then the day is done. I guess I need to make more of weekends now.
I've been working on keeping physically fit, just little and often. Stress related weight loss helped a bit, I guess - this EA thing put me off my appetite for a while. My WW even commented that I was looking more muscular lately.
I'll be back no doubt once I have done a bit more reading.
Thanks again
-- Me: 47 WW: 35 SS: 17 D: 5 T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016. OEA continues (with occasional breaks) BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
She was going to move out to the spare room, but guilted me due to her back problems, etc. She even ordered a new bed, which I am now in :-/ Now she says she is claiming the MBR as I have claimed the internet by blocking Skype.
Our normal advice is do NOT move out of the house or the MBR.
I see no reason to not listen to our normal advice. She told you to jump and you asked how high? Is that the normal way things have gone in your relationship?
She was going to move out to the spare room, but guilted me due to her back problems, etc. She even ordered a new bed, which I am now in :-/ Now she says she is claiming the MBR as I have claimed the internet by blocking Skype.
She told you to jump and you asked how high? Is that the normal way things have gone in your relationship?
Quite often it has been, I'm afraid. It's not that I don't defend my corner or argue, it's just that I usually lose (sometime just for the peace), or quite often realise I am arguing for the sake of it.
Now the issue is do I move back in? It will no doubt be taken as a confrontational tactic. TBH, none of my things are in there anyway, we had too much stuff for 1 bedroom so mine went in the spare and hers in the main even when we both were in there. I know, I sound like I'm making excuses already, just at this stage moving back in there seems more symbolic than anything else. I tend to second guess myself a lot, not a great trait.
I am not going to leave the house.
-- Me: 47 WW: 35 SS: 17 D: 5 T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016. OEA continues (with occasional breaks) BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
She was going to move out to the spare room, but guilted me due to her back problems, etc. She even ordered a new bed, which I am now in :-/ Now she says she is claiming the MBR as I have claimed the internet by blocking Skype.
She told you to jump and you asked how high? Is that the normal way things have gone in your relationship?
Quite often it has been, I'm afraid. It's not that I don't defend my corner or argue, it's just that I usually lose (sometime just for the peace), or quite often realise I am arguing for the sake of it.
Now the issue is do I move back in? It will no doubt be taken as a confrontational tactic. TBH, none of my things are in there anyway, we had too much stuff for 1 bedroom so mine went in the spare and hers in the main even when we both were in there. I know, I sound like I'm making excuses already, just at this stage moving back in there seems more symbolic than anything else. I tend to second guess myself a lot, not a great trait.
I am not going to leave the house.
Hello Woke_up,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Yes, don't leave the house. You are questioning how to move back into the MBR without being confrontational. Let a DB Coach help you with that and many other things you described.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
One at least. It's been a bit of a roller coaster day. After the argument in the morning, she was quite pleasant to me at lunch time, I complimented her on her new lipstick she was trying out, she was smiley and even gave me a kiss. Threw me a bit. I'm not sure I would normally do just a straightforward compliment, which was why I did it, as an attempt at a 180.
Then this evening at dinner, it was not good. Almost as if a trap had been set. Started off talking about something, the I got distracted by my daughter. When I sat back down she was just staring silently - said 'I'm waiting'... then proceeded to argue with me for not having a conversation. I pointed out that she had a podcast playing on her phone - then it was that I never make conversation (she has a point, I struggle with it), she felt alone, she didn't have any friends, only Youtube (she listens to a lot of politics and stuff, and the EAP, that I wasn't her friend.
Then it was dragging up past faults, past arguments, much of the not so good stuff in our history. The blocking of the Skype thing was the real cause though, that I was infantilising her again, that she can do what she wants, that if I want to make things hard she will make them harder.
All sorts of threats and nastiness, that I was driving her away, and may even dive her away abroad.. the implied threat being she will go to her EA in the states and take our daughter with her.
She says that I am trying to control her and what she can and can't do, and thinks that if she tells me our R is over, that therefore I should back down and take the skype block off as we are not together and she can do what she wants, and that it's no longer an affair, as the R is over.
She asked me to top up the credit on her phone and I refused, which also infuriated her - she was used to me always doing things like that for her, but again I see it as enabling the EA, and I don't want to be a part of that.
I'm not angry about it, if anything it felt like an addict who couldn't get their hit. She ended up storming out of the house to go to somewhere she could find a WiFI connection and get on her Skype. She's back now, and we are keeping distance.
This will give me time to reflect and read some more of DR. Posting here is at least giving me a chance to think through what is happening, reflect, and hopefully focus on improving me as a person, not just trying to change to please her.
-- Me: 47 WW: 35 SS: 17 D: 5 T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016. OEA continues (with occasional breaks) BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
What are the ages of you and your partner? You referred to the children, what are their ages?
I hope you won't see me copying a post I sent to another member as arrogance on my part. The subject is mostly about boundaries and consequences vs control and punishment.
Two cards the WW plays the most are the "guilt card" and the "control card". She will try to make the LBH feel guilty as a way to manipulate him. If he sets a boundary, she screams that he's controlling. LBS need not to explain where he stands or expound on what he said (as many LBH's have a tendency to do). The WW is using these cards to manipulate and get her way. The H needs to ignore these accusations.
I feel there may some who do not fully understand boundaries in a M. I can see how it could be misinterpreted as trying to control the other spouse. First of all, control is all about your spouse, and what she does, what she feels, etc. Control is keeping track of where she is every hour, who she talked to.......on & on. If she does not do it your way, then you punish her by giving the silent treatment, yelling at her or whatever. Control comes from fear; co-dependency; anger; inferiority; ...........on & on.
Boundaries are all about you. Boundaries are your limits. They are set in place by you...to protect you.....emotionally, mentally, & physically. Boundaries come from self-respect; dignity; freedom; values; integrity; & protection. They are not used to control or punish the your W for not choosing to do things your way.
Since honoring your boundary requires respect from the WW.........simply stating your boundary, may not be effective. Whatever your WW is doing that is hurting you, the benefits she receives for violating your boundary may outweigh respecting your boundary. (WW's are very resistant to the H's boundaries). So at this point, you need to enforce consequences. I did a little homework on the subject, so the list below reflects what I read.
A consequence is an effect, or result, of an action from you. You need to establish an appropriate consequence for your WW's disrespect, so that she will experience some type of discomfort due to her total negligence/irresponsibility and disrespect of your boundary. Otherwise, your boundary will not be effective. A consequence needs to have some very important characteristics:
1. Boundaries and consequences are not about fixing your spouse, or making her choose better. They are about allowing appropriate cause and effect so that she will experience the pain of irresponsibility, and then change. 2. Be deliberate and not impulsive........or set in anger. Think it through, and maybe post on the board to get other view points of what an appropriate effect might be. It is not about getting even. It is about getting out of enabling the wayward spouse, and about protecting yourself from her wayward behavior. 3. Make sure this is something you can and will do. You need to make sure you have the power and resources to set the limit. Don't make threats. 4. Remember your spouse has freedom of choice. Don’t set a consequence by saying, “You have to,” “You must,” or, “I will make you. . . .” Consequences are not something you do to control your spouse. They are reactions to her choices. Let her make her choices, but prepare your reactions. 5. The consequence should be immediate as possible. Just as kids need quick consequences, so does your WW. (Not that she's a child.....it's just an example). She can make the association between her action and the results if they are close together in time. 6. You want reality to be your WW's instructor, as much as possible. For example, a WW who becomes enraged should have her H and children leave her presence, right then, for a while. No one wants to be around her when she's having tantrums. This is preferable to an unrelated consequence, such as leaving her alone to watch the kids an extra evening while you go out to GAL. 7. Stay away from humiliating or punitive consequences such as making fun of her or making sarcastic remarks. 8. Consequences don’t have to be forever. As your WW takes responsibility and repents, you can change the consequences. However, be sure that change has truly occurred over some period of time. Just saying “I’m sorry” is not enough to let go of consequences. The other side of this, however, is that you may have to escalate the severity of the consequence if your WW behaves worse. 9. Boundaries are not ultimatums.
Does this help to understand boundaries a bit more? I hope you won't hesitate in asking questions.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You & your girlfriend are biological parents to a girl about 5 years old. Right?
You work 14 hours a day while your girlfriend stays home with your girl, and does some part time work for your business. Right?
Do you live in state where your relationship is or may be recognized as a common law marriage? (Search the web for info).
Assuming you are not in a common law marriage, and therefore she has no direct claim on your money, you could decide that you don't want to materially support any part of her affair.
But I think this is where Sandi2's point is important. Cutting off the money might be the easiest action to take -- and it may well end up being the right action -- but you have to start with the idea of protecting your feelings and dignity, as opposed to trying to control your girlfriends behavior. I think there is a subtle but important difference.
I don't see an easy answer, when you have lives that are entangled, and explicit and implicit agreement exists to run a household together.
Cutting off payment for one mode of communication (say, the Internet) while paying for her phone -- that feels punitive and controlling to me. If you stop paying for her phone but then you share money to pay for groceries, then what prevents her from just paying for the phone out of those funds? If so, then your actions just become a petty game.
I'm not sure what the right thing is, but I think you have to back up a little and look at the big picture. You and she have settled into an agreement that you work outside the home and bring in money, and she mostly stays home and takes care of your daughter, and that makes sense for a couple who love each other. But she is not saying, through her affair, that she no longer wants to be your lover/partner. She's crossed the boundary of that mutually understood relationship by having this affair. What should you do to protect your feelings and dignity?
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
