Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 6)

[bigybiz]

Sandi2:

Sorry to hijack but you said something that really resonates with my situation. My W feels that she now can be happy as she is now popular with a new community and she feels she is on her way to becoming a celebrity.

Our whole life together I've known about this desire for fame and external recognition. My hunch is it is a hunger that can never be satisfied. After speaking to a room of 50, you want to speak to 100 and so on and so on.

If any WW/WAW is looking for external validation etc for their happiness - when will it end or will it be a cycle/chase as we have you point out above?

Love to hear your thoughts.

[ForGump]

How you holding up

[JRuss]

FG -- thanks for checking. Basically just in a holding pattern through the holidays, but I suspect some sort of separation proposal is coming after we get through that. Nothing's changed from her perspective as far as I can tell. I oscillate between feeling like I might be ok with it to abject sorrow. I'm doing better acting like it doesn't bother me even when it does, but that's mainly for the kids, as I realized my overt sadness was hurting them. It's a sad situation I fought really hard to keep from happening, but, as my therapist says, I just never had a partner in any of it. If she'd move a little toward me, who knows? But she wants exactly the opposite. I think I had a fighting chance had she not hired the Divorce Coach she calls her IC, but that woman got the trains running on time, and in short order, intimacy, affection, MBR -- all gone.

We will see. I've been reading up on how to be a good Divorced Dad. It's stomach churning worrying about it, but there aren't really any more arrows in my quiver. What can you do?

[ForGump]

I think there is something good about your W confronting the realities of her desire to divorce you.

That's what I tell myself.

[JRuss]

I'm wondering if there's anything I'm overlooking that I could be doing at this point. It feels wrong not to have a plan or something I'm trying to accomplish w/r/t my R. My W just seems to be gaining strength and heading further and further away, while I sit still, still GALing, still doing my 180s -- to no effect. For a long time, GALing and the 180s made me feel better and proud of what I was doing, the changes I'm making, the improvement I could see and feel, etc. That's sort of dissipated even as I keep them up, and now I'm just sort of mutely sitting there watching my W move emotionally further and further away.

The loneliness is intense, especially at night, before I fall asleep. I feel stuck, like it's all over but for the further passage of time. She's "done" -- I get that statement now.

I think maybe the one area I could explore is going much darker emotionally speaking. My 180s mostly involve acts of service, doing more around the house, listening to her (although we talk less and less at this point), so I haven't wanted to go to the oft-recommended "cordial roommate" mode, but maybe it's time to start ignoring more? I don't know. I guess it's pretty much all over, and this is what it feels like, but I thought I'd throw it out to see if anyone had any advice on things I can try.

[MoveFrwd]

It feels wrong not to have a plan or something I'm trying to accomplish w/r/t my R.

So this would be a 180 of sorts for you? Just because it FEELS wrong doesnt mean it IS wrong.

My W just seems to be gaining strength and heading further and further away, while I sit still, still GALing, still doing my 180s -- to no effect. For a long time, GALing and the 180s made me feel better and proud of what I was doing, the changes I'm making, the improvement I could see and feel, etc. That's sort of dissipated even as I keep them up, and now I'm just sort of mutely sitting there watching my W move emotionally further and further away.

The loneliness is intense, especially at night, before I fall asleep. I feel stuck, like it's all over but for the further passage of time. She's "done" -- I get that statement now.

I think it's your perspective that needs to change, not your actions. Imagine sitting on an airplane - it looks like youre just sitting, but youre really flying at hundreds of miles an hour. You say youre 'sitting there' and 'stuck'. Id try to zoom out to the bigger picture. What goals do you have? How can you reach them? Give yourself things to target, and youll stop feeling stuck.

I think maybe the one area I could explore is going much darker emotionally speaking. My 180s mostly involve acts of service, doing more around the house, listening to her (although we talk less and less at this point), so I haven't wanted to go to the oft-recommended "cordial roommate" mode, but maybe it's time to start ignoring more? I don't know. I guess it's pretty much all over, and this is what it feels like, but I thought I'd throw it out to see if anyone had any advice on things I can try.

I hate the thought of 'ignoring' someone. Thats just rude. To me, thats like hearing someone say something to you and choosing not to respond. I wouldnt advise that. I dont think 'cordial roommates' are ignoring each other. That said, I wouldnt go out of your way to be around her. If you arent in the 'cordial roommate' phase right now, what would be different if you acted in that way? Why are you reluctant to act like that?

[JRuss]

Thanks, darknes.

I've been at this a long, long time (almost two years). The goal has always been to make the changes I could make and convince my W that there was value in trying to rebuild a relationship that could work for both of us, allow us not to put the kids through a divorced life, etc. I feel stuck because I've been at this a long time, have made a tremendous amount of personal progress, but none of it has mattered at all from my W's perspective. I'm in a better place, but the marriage is not.

I guess I've been reluctant to act like the cordial roommate because it feels like more and more distance, while I long/hope for increased connection. I realize that DBing is counterintuitive, but it has never felt "right" not to be actively trying to be a better and better spouse; to show her. As I type that, though, I guess that's pursuit/smothering? At the end of the day, it's as if I've shown her my best version -- my personal ceiling -- and it's really just confirmed for her that she wants to see if there's someone better out there. She's going slow -- for my benefit and for the kids' benefit, but she's going.

[sandi2]

The goal has always been to make the changes I could make and convince my W that there was value in trying to rebuild a relationship that could work for both of us, allow us not to put the kids through a divorced life, etc.

IMHO, whenever the H makes changes as to persuade/convince his W they have a M worth saving.................he is defeating himself. First of all, I believe women have intuition. His W reads his changes to be emotional pressure.......which is true. He is making improvements in hopes they will appease the W and bring about certain results. When it doesn't produce the results he worked so hard to get, he feels rejected. It causes him to feel emotionally exhausted.

JRuss, you have been relunctant to detach. There are some DB actions that you just cannot believe will work positivitely. That is why you are told that DB is counterintuitive. I believe you are afraid to detach. That is a problem you have not conquered, and I think it is b/c you may not have the correct concept about DB detaching.

Detaching is all about your focus and how you relate your actions to your W. I think I sent you a shorter version of detachment, but maybe I didn't. If you could narrow it down to which number in the detaching post is the most difficult for you........then we would know the exact one. Otherwise, it sounds more like you can't really tell us, ........which looks kind of like you just don't want to even try it.

Sometimes, it takes the newcomer seeing that his way is not working, before he finally accepts a different way. So, if you are still determined to stay emotionally attached to your W, I don't see much positive change for your M down the road. I think the only hope is for you to drop the rope while you still have a chance.

Make your best version of JRuss for yourself.

[JRuss]

sandi -- thank you. The problem with detachment is not that I don't want to do it. I've never understood HOW to do it. I will re-read the detach homework and try to narrow in on the parts that are for me the hardest.

[sandi2]

Try this one, it's shorter.


Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and not to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.