A WW? (6)

[lt0402]

Well, just want to journal real quick before bed. Will respond to everyone tomorrow.

W has been in an agitated mood since last weekend. Tonight I decided to try something and I took a cup of hers with a top and also a measuring cup out of the drying rack and put them away. Took her about 2 hrs to realize it but when she did she jumped all over me. For the cup and top I was told I can't put it away with the top on it bc it was wet (not true, even if it was she uses it every day) and for the measuring cup I'd put it in the wrong spot. She also told me that it was not my stuff, it was her stuff and I had no right putting it away. I was told in an angry, aggressive type of way. Told W I heard her, waited until D was out of earshot and calmly told my W I'd like to speak with her in the garage for 2 minutes. W madly said she was making popsicle for D and she could not right then.

Waited until she was done and approached her again. I think she thought I'd go away if she delayed it. Told her calmly that I'd like 2 minutes. She huffed and turned and we went into the garage. I told W "Help me understand why you are so angry right now". W went into that I'd known her long enough to know she'd be aggravated that I did what I did. That I was not listening to her, similar to the past ten years. That I wasn't listening to her or D. I asked her for an example of how I wasn't listening to her and she said I still follow D around the house and last night I put out Ds meds before she was ready for them. (I put them out bc it was time for Ds meds. Best guess is W is upset bc she didn't tell me to).

W said I was constantly aggravating D. (Not true). Asked her for an example of this and she paused, thought, and said she want going to reiterate everything I do to aggravate D to me and I needed to figure that out for myself. (Ok...)

At that point I told her she could be more constructive in giving me that type of feedback, instead of being angry in her approach. She said she's trying her hardest to keep it together and this is "as good as it gets, take it or leave it" as she began to cry and walked off.

I also thought it spoke volumes when she said those were her things and not mine. Married people generally think of their things as "ours" not mine and yours. I didn't address it at all in the garage but I took note she was very careful in changing those words when we talked out there. My W is typically very purposeful in what she does, as y'all have seen.

All of this is after she got angry yesterday bc I spilled two drops of milk on the counter. She saw it as I went to toss the empty milk in the recycling and then get a paper towel to clean it up. She made a big deal about cleaning it up and "this is why I ask you not to do that on that counter (it's the island in the kitchen"...I'm only allowed to do anything food related near the sink...). I almost fired back on that one but caught myself and moved on.

This is all wearing very thin. To yalls points above, I am just not sure this thing in its current state is sustainable. D was sick all day and I spent most of the day with her (minus a run, bagging some leaves, and putting the faucets on in our bathroom for the renovation we just finished). Poor kid. I had to confront my W when she got angry tonight bc it obviously was upsetting my D like it used to and I didn't want that + her being sick to hang over her. Plus I'm not ok with my W addressing me like that.

Hell, let's respond tonight. Am on a roll!

FG, it's very strange that the 3 of us seem stuck in our in house S. It's funny but my IC is also pushing me to sit with W and set a timeline. I know mine is not a perpetual limbo bc I'm not willing to let W treat me and by extension D like this. I'm not willing for her anxiety to drive our lives anymore. Unfortunately I don't think she addresses those things so we will probably need to have that talk.

JR, appreciate the kind words as always brother. I think we have all come quite a ways since we first got here. I know I don't feel nearly as lost as I did then. It's bc of you guys that I didn't lose my mind as everything started to play out and I'm forever greatful.

My W definitely has done no growing through this. She is still following the same habits and is still being driven by anxiety as far as I can tell. I find myself wondering if OM was not merely a lever to try to force me out, as I'm something she couldn't fully control. Now that I've shown it won't, I wonder if that's made what made her fall back into this "family" stuff. No idea if she is still talking to OM or not but she does not have the same bravado around it she has the first 2 months. Who knows. Regardless, it sounds like all of our Ws are being left in the dust, to some degree, wrt changes. It's sad really.

FG, unfortunately I agree with you. My Ws issues do seem to be deeply rooted and go back to before the M. I know that I did not help with them and over time I'd probably added to them (her anxiety and my bowing to it, my avoidance of conflict, my not fully being there at all times) so I'm not completely blameless. However, I think I merely added to already established issues and I'm unsure anything I do at this point can fix them for her. She desperately needs to see an IC and put in effort but I don't think she ever will. So you are right. It seems like now it's a question of soldiering on until that scale has tipped and it's time. I won't go without a fight, bc my D and my M deserve that, but I know it's a very long shot and I can only keep things neutral at best. By myself I can't improve them. Bleh.

Trumpet, I believe you are spot on. I'm seeing now that everything I do is very one sided. I can only make things worse, not better. I'm trying to keep things neutral and pick spots to challenge her anxiety or show her we can partner with each other but that's all I seem to be able to do. The rest of my focus goes into me and my D. Maybe if I run it this way then something will click on my W and she will get help and work on herself. Long shot, but all I've got to work with. Better to be a realist than live in a lie. I'm done lying to myself. I continue to build bonds with my D so we are each other's support if this tenuous situation spirals again. I won't let D get to the point of anxiety my W has succumbed to.

Thanks all for your thoughts. This is so trying at times but it's easier to see it rationally now. Appreciate all your support!

[mvgfwd2]

She still thinks she is free to treat you with extreme disrespect. I think you need to address that very firmly. I told my W "if you can't talk to me like a rational adult don't say anything to me. Find someone else who will take this immature anger BS. I'm done with it. Grow the F up".

[ForGump]

LT-

Why did you test your W w/ the cups? My wife used to get angry like that too, although that type of anxiety has mellowed a bit over the years. She still has some, and I'm probably guilty of catering to some of it. I probably have difficulty seeing my complicity because I've lived with her for so long.

To nitpick though, I think married people do think of some things to be "his" and "hers", even if in theory it's all communal property. You yourself wrote in your post that you put away "her" cups. This doesn't negate your general point about her flying off the handle, but I point it out here so she or anyone else won't catch you off guard on this point.f

Anyway, LT, the angry outburst you describe sounds so acute ... there is really very little you can do to change your marriage. You just don't have a healthy partner who can work with you on your marriage. She doesn't need marriage help, she needs serious individual help. Mine too.

I think your actions anger her so much because her insecurity is so high, when you don't do what she asks you to do, if her world isn't arranged just so, it feels to her like an attack on her sense of security, her well being.

Your W might fantasize about being with an OM but ... imagine what kind of an OM would enjoy being with someone who can't tolerate a couple of drops of milk being spilled....

Is there any way that your W might see that she needs help, w/o having to go through a divorce?

[J5K]

LT

I think you handled things well. You stayed calm and did not let your emotions get the best of you. As I read your last post I realized that my XW made similar comments on where to pour the milk or whatever else I was doing. Their expectation is that we do things exactly the same way they do. Stay focused my friend. Keep toughing it out! I am praying for you.

[DonH]

LT, I'm seeing such growth in how you are handling so much of this. It's obvious that you are starting to see how complex what is going on is. As others have pointed out, as have I, fixing the R really may have to come after W fixes herself.

As for the exchanges you detailed, I have two trains of thought. It could well be your w's anxiety at play. On the other hand, it really may not be about the cup,or the milk at all. Very often, at least in otherwise mentally healthy people, they will get upset about things like that when it really has nothing to do with the cup or the milk. Those issues are safe to bitch about where the real reason for the upset is scary to talk about. It also happens when the person is just plain mad about other things. I remember getting really upset about exW (then W) or D throwing out left overs I didn't even want. My anger had NOTHING to do with the left overs - it was all the other thing not being spoken about.

The problem is, regardless if what's really going on, your W needs professional help. To get it, she has to first want it. She thinks it's everyone else - if you guys could just be "fixed" she would be fine. That's simply not true! She just doesn't know it. Very clearly every time she says your D feels this or wants that or does not like something, that is total crap! These are things bothering W.

The challenge here is how to deal with it. I'm not at all sure - again why a professional is needed. You are seriously seeing it for what it is, which is a great start. Now W needs to start to see it. I do believe that sticking with the rational truth is still very much needed. You can't feed into her illusions. I also think that when she says D feels this or wants that or hates something, that too needs to get a truth spotlight on it. Perhaps ask D in an appropriate way away from W? You don't want to put D in the middle but W is already doing that.

I hope some of that helps. All of these sitchs are complex but yours is multiplex. Still, if W would start to just consider her role in all of this... Thing is, that's likely her biggest fear of all. She may even know deep down its the case but she will fight tooth and nail to keep all the balks in the air because it is her biggest fear and she just can't face it.

Keep at it though LT. You are making great improvements.

[Bippy78]

Just to echo - one of the most powerful things you can come to terms with is to completely give up any hope you have of "changing" XW. Almost like the first step of a 12-step program. Once you accept that, you can then focus your energy on things you CAN control/change.

[cheesyt]

hey lt just checking in, hope all is well!

[CT1118]

It, wish you the best buddy, she is still afraid it seems. I'm sorry to read she still uses your daughter as a weapon, so very low as a blow and over a freaking cup. You know this already. Your strength is an envy, keep,it up. Have a great Christmas.

[Surfer]

LT,

You handled you W very well. The garage talks never work IMHO. Whatever you say she will reject or attack. Your WS behaviours is a carbon copy of my W's. She is a verbal abuser - see the Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. You can not do a thing about her behaviour it won't stop unless she stops it. You only control you. I suggest next time she says anything that is nonsense, just say, that's nonsense and I don't agree. Then exit the conversation and the room. Your W does not give a toss about the milk spots, mug etc. It's about her anger and she may even be addicted to anger. Think back to when you first saw her 'blow' her top. I bet it was over nothing and years ago. They escalate in frequency and scale until something happens.You just exit the drama game mate. That's all you do. Keep angry confrontations away from D and if she pursues them using them as a weapon (my W used to do this a lot), just say I don't agree with you leave her to calm down and get out of the way. This way you protect you and D.

In my case, I do not think my W will change. Your W may not too. Our MC recognised this behaviour in W and advised her. My W did not fall to her knees and ask for help. She denied she had a problem to herself.

My kids are happy and healthy. I have just 'made' their xmas. Read my sitch for an update. You are doing this for your D and it takes the most solid of men to be such a father. Your D will see you as an absolute legend. She probably already does mate!

So proud of you and what you are doing!

Surfer.

[hawker]

How was your Christmas Lt? Hope you are well!!