Lost in the woods - Camp 2

[Sotto]

Hi Andrew - golly, looks like this thread has been busy whilst I've been gone.

I think the advice is simple really. It was a reasonably positive interaction. However, there are some lessons to be learned about 'looking like plan B' and so on....

I think everyone is in agreement that a girlfriend isn't really on the cards just now.

Life is all about plan B they say. And the task in hand is to make plan B as full and rewarding a life as you can, given all circumstances. Time (since S and on this forum) have taught me that the best plan is to take XH out of the equation. His life is his and mine is mine. So I live my life as I so choose - single at the moment, but in time who knows?

So, do leave her be and back to business as usual I say. Make plans just for you and enjoy doing some new things. I would also love to see you interacting with new people in whatever pursuits you enjoy. But I only say that because I have found it to be so beneficial.

Hope you have a lovely weekend Andrew :-)

[AndrewP]

AHA - found the most important one.

Shut up.

So about that pride thing.

Here is my horrible secret.

Cavet first.

I was going to be a better person no matter the outcome of this. I knew it. Even if she didn't come out of her MLC...I would be great.

Here is the horrible pride part.

I had a saying I used often. I'm not certain if I am going to say it 100% correctly.

Whether it is a 1 in 100 chance of saving your marriage or a 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance of saving your marriage it doesn't matter the end number, what matters is the first number.
Be the 1.

My sin was knowing that I would be the 1. That was my pride.

Let it be yours.

a lot of what is keeping me on this path is duty and pride

That's not a bad reason, to keep you going when you don't think you can. Use up anything you can as fuel to keep standing as long as you can. Your goal is to outlast her, almost everything can burn to keep that fire going.

Duty has long been burned up since this was written. I still have lots of pride but it's fueling me more than my standing. I still strongly believe that of all the choices that may be in front of her that coming back to me is still her 1 best choice. I do struggle with what my own best choice is. I'm not sure I know. Meeting over coffee added some love and compassion to the wood pile though - let's see how long and strong that burns for. If I keep the hope damper mostly closed it should burn for a fair while. (Apologies to those without a history of wood stoves - wish I had one now IRL)

I'd been waffling about asking here if I should get W a Christmas gift or not. The usual answer is no but I suspect - without knowing - that W is perhaps at least currently out of replay and may be looking around for familiar things. According to what she said she'll be alone this Christmas because her sister that she might have spent time with just had a heart attack (recovering slowly - I asked for W to pass on best wishes). She believes that S22 is currently avoiding her since he won't respond to any of her queries about his plans. I sent S22 a text this morning suggesting that if he hadn't thought of a gift that he get the one I was thinking of - a spa day with mani-pedi - just the thing I would think for someone who is depressed and one of W's previous favourite things. I noticed that she'd let her nails go a bit which never used to happen - they were always a great source of pride to her. At least she is contacting S22 and D24 pretty much daily now and they always brighten my day and hopefully her's. She's also been chatting back and forth occasionally with SIL2 (which I didn't know). She gave me some nice compliments on how the outside of the house looks too. Too bad that the re-connection stages are "guidelines" and not actual rules. I sent a thank you note to SIL2 and then when SIL1 suggested independently that she reach out more to W and that she already had commented on a Facebook post I asked them to treat her like a "scared squirrel" and keep giving her lots of space. They agreed.

I do hope that W follows through on her seeking for therapy. She mentioned that she was going to go to try to get into the same clinic that I was at. I told her who the IC was that I had dealt with and said that the IC had suggested that she "not" see W because her opinions would be coloured. We had a bit of a laugh over that. There are other therapists at the clinic though who wouldn't be biased.

eric - The weekend should be good as well as busy. I'm not sure I'll be able to fit in a hike but will try. The first weekend of the month is the "clean the house" weekend where I go from top to bottom starting with duster and ending with scrub brush. The village Christmas parade is also on Sunday and I usually park the car at the end of the drive, record the parade on the dashcam and then post to Facebook so that S22/D24 and all the other ex patriots can see it. I may also take myself out for breakfast on Sunday. That used to be something that W and I would do every week and it was a key part of our regular bonding. W mentioned during our talk that she doesn't go out for breakfast any more but spends it alone (she made a lot of references to being alone). job would jump up and whack me with a 2X4 shaped like a frying pan if I followed through on my thought of calling her up and inviting her out this weekend. I will be also trying to get to sending out at least the bulk of my Christmas cards including ones to W's family.

PS - Just found the other quote.

it takes b@lls the size of Texas to look at our LBSs and admit we were wrong - all wrong- and to ask your forgiveness when it is all we can do to stand upright in the face of the realization of what we have done.

This is the quote that made me so very proud of my W this week. I can barely comprehend the amount of courage that it took for her to ask me out for coffee and then to actually show up. I hope she was as pleased as I was with the outcome.

Take care everyone and enjoy the scenery here in the woods.

[MoveFrwd]

I can barely comprehend the amount of courage that it took for her to ask me out for coffee and then to actually show up. I hope she was as pleased as I was with the outcome.

I think this is the disconnect between your view and the view of most of the rest of the folks commenting on your thread.

You see this coffee as a step towards reconciling. I think the rest of us see it as a temperature check - where she came to see what youre up to, and saw no risk in losing you; letting her keep all of the power in the relationship to do as she pleases.

[CaliGuy]

Andrew ....

Darknes is on point here...

Ok, not to be Donald Downer here but .. pump the brakes a bit. Please for your sake .... revisit the No Expectation lessons that are preached and scattered about on this forum. (Brace for a 2x4) Replay does not end that fast, rather than "W is perhaps at least currently out of replay" I would argue she is temp/anchor checking. Coffee as nice as it may be ... could very well be her making sure you are just where she left you, sometimes you have to go through a few of those and accept them for what they are, an over priced cup of bean juice and hopefully a pleasant chance to show her you are not all bad, gives her something to think about for .4 seconds before the fog settles back in and she wanders about a bit more.

You are wanting reconciliation, totally get that, and you are also looking for anything to fuel your bus to outlast her crisis ... that's fine too ... stay center, stay grounded, rise above your own expectations and desires and try to see things for what they are. Keep your focus internal and continue to work, you will need that strength later.

MLC takes time, Replay lasts far longer than any of us would like as in my opinion this is the one stage that seems to cause the LBS the most damage. I too was guilty of taking a simple hug with her toes on mine as the "OMG She is waking up" moment, was to blind to notice the anchor I had on my foot.

Re-connection is a slow moving turtle, alot of it you will not always see, and she may very well not reconnect with everyone, its not like the 12 step where you contact everyone you hurt, they do often realize there are a few burned bridges they can not/do not have the ability to repair.

Please know I am not trying to take the wind from your sails here, I just know the rough waters ahead of you and want to make sure you have the hatches locked down and avoid taking on water.

[job]

Andrew,

Your wife is not out of replay. She's hit a bump in the road because the OM is not in the picture right now. She's wanting contact because he's gone at the moment. I know you are really hoping that she's waking up, but I don't see that from where I'm sitting. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Having a coffee w/your wife is not a step towards reconciliation. Your wife isn't even baked up yet. She's still very raw and fragile and hasn't done any of the hard, necessary work to heal herself. Please, take what I'm saying and reflect on this...she's only touching base w/you now because of the holidays and the absence of the OM. If she is taking more steps after the holidays, then I might change my tune...but right now...replay is still in action and she's still suffering from depression.

Keep those expectations at zero and please be mindful that some of them do come out to play because of the holidays and then disappear again.

Andrew, you need to develop a tougher skin because you are very sensitive right now. Bottom line, you take what you can use from the postings and leave the rest. The posters have traveled the path and because you are too close to your situation, we can see some things that you need to work on. It's not that they are trying to make you feel uncomfortable or make you upset/angry, but what they are saying is that you need to work on you and stop focusing so much on what she's doing or what the people in your real world think of your situation. You only have two people to answer to and they are: God and yourself. If you are happy w/the way you are progressing, then so be it...but when you come here and post, we are not going to sugar coat things because this would be very wrong and would not help you. Please be mindful of the fact that we are all trying to help you the best way that we can and that is by being honest w/our responses.

Take care.

[AndrewP]

CaliGuy - You are very likely right on the money here. Even though his delivery method often causes me blunt force trauma darknes has been right so many times that I take what he writes quite seriously - Don't tell him though - it might go to his head....

Please know I am not trying to take the wind from your sails here, I just know the rough waters ahead of you and want to make sure you have the hatches locked down and avoid taking on water.

I appreciate that. I'll trim the headsails and put out the storm trysail and keep on my original course but prepare for heavy weather. Apologies for anyone who isn't a sailor out there.

job has been very good and delivering the "no expectations" message to me and to a lot of others here and the "believe nothing they say and only half what they do" is something that I keep quite firmly in mind. Until I know that W is accepting help from an IC and starts talking to me more like a human being than a scared squirrel this is indeed all just so much unicorn fart.

I've done a fair bit of reading mostly here but a bit in other places about MLC and how it progresses, not as much as some people but a fair bit. I read perhaps everything that job has written in the last couple of years as well. I miss Jack - he had a deep insight and could communicate it to me in a way that resonated. He'd probably repeat just what you said though CaliGuy. Perhaps even that quote I pulled.

So - I wonder what the lady who sells me my roses is doing on Sunday afternoon when the parade is on (ducking to dodge the incoming lumber )

[AndrewP]

Your wife is not out of replay.

job - Thank you so much for stopping by and posting that. I think I managed to channel you a bit in my response to CaliGuy.

Sticking (mostly) to the original plan then. The only adjustment is something that I don't believe that I had posted here before. I had been planning on meeting with my L in January to begin the D process. I'm going to put that aside for the present.

[job]

I'm glad you have decided to postpone the meeting w/your lawyer. I honestly do not think you are ready to pull the plug on your marriage. I suggest you dig deeper for patience and know that your wife has a ways to go in the healing process.

You will know when you are ready to give up...but it's not today. As I always say "when in doubt, do nothing". Sit quietly and the answers will come. You just have to be patient and do not attempt to rush the process.

[CaliGuy]

Andrew

Its good I think you took the message as intended.

Just to plant a seed, there is some common belief that you really can not trust anything for about 3 years post BD.... yeah ... 3, THREE, TRES flipping years. Of course my MLCr was different and with my help she was waking up in record time about 1 1/2 years post BD. (We need sarcasm font here) She seemed to have all the signs I read here, remorse, transparency, renewed commitment to the M, blah blah blah .... a few here told me she wasn't baked yet, and I 25% agreed but wanted her 'home' so I figured .. fine she isn't baked... but she can finish baking at home while I watch. I will tell you that was one epic year of watching that oven and the bread never rose. She was not done, still in replay and was an epic setback of catastrophic proportions. I learned the pain of the "Touch and Go" and after almost a year it was me who moved out, no intention of waking her up, I decided to allow her to walk the path she needed to... without my help.


So lets touch on the divorce thing, my advice... my approach. Drop the idea.
You aren't ready .... its simply a bullet you think will land in her heart and wake her up .... it will not. My stance was , if she wants D, its all hers .. all of it, she files, does the leg work, all that... she also gets all the credit for it, I will not be blamed for that one, her D not mine.

My life would be no different divorced, as it is now separated so why push it, not like I was going to Vegas to marry a stripper any time soon, so for me there was no need to pull the trigger on something that you can not just take back. I still have things I am working on and my 'married' state has zero influence on what I do.

[Coly23]

Just popped in to give you a good old fashioned hug (((Andrew))) and some freshly baked cookies...