A WW? (6)

[ForGump]

Additionally she gets on D and I for "shouting" so much

This caught my attention because my W does the same thing, but she says that even when no one is shouting. What's happening is that when a person says something that provokes her emotional response (anxiety, anger, annoyance, insecurity etc), she literally believes the person is actually shouting. I can't remember the correct medical terminology for this, but it's a psychological condition where a person perceives reality through emotions rather than facts. It's a condition that is related to (or falls under the broad umbrella of) emotional dysregulation. There is evidence for neurological causes for this condition.

You also said your W does not want to see a counselor, because it's all garbage. That's another way for someone suffering from acute anxiety to manage her anxiety -- especially if she suffers from low self-worth. For someone like that, having a professional shed light on your private thoughts and feelings ... that's a huge source of anxiety. So it's a self-defense mechanism to say counseling is garbage.

[cheesyt]

lt0402 checking in on you. how are things on your side of the screen?!

-cheesy

[lt0402]

CT, appreciate your thoughts around the medication and the OPCD situation from your past. You're right that I post most of this here bc it helps me to get my thoughts in order and the third party viewpoints I get from ya'll are invaluable. I needed both of those things so much at the start of this. I do hope that at some point some little lesson learned from my situation can help someone else. It's amazing how much comfort and help can come from this forum. I don't know that I would have held together as well as I have w/o reading about other's strength on these threads.

JK, yeah, seems like the human experience is the same, regardless of who the actors are. I'm finding that my W reacts to any kind of stimulus that's out of her control. It could be as small as putting my hands on the kitchen counters (a new one over the past month). But she definitely seems to have a thing about light and sound. Still trying to learn as much as I can about anxiety, but IC warns me to be careful of self diagnosing too much. Hoping to get a better grasp so I can manage things, but we'll see.

DonH, thank you! All of that is immensely helpful. I'm unsure that approaching W about the anxiety will lead to anything positive. After the first MC session I told her she should take the IC up on her offer for IC around the anger/anxiety. Went over like a lead balloon. I think it'll take some massive influence from an MC or IC for W to address her issues unfortunately.

MV, her only words around it were "If we're going to stay married for years then you need to be nicer to me" and "you say you want to stay married. do you want that or do you want to be divorced?". Unsure how to take any of it. She wants to go back to the same MC, but I'm unsure of her motivations or intentions. I'm finding myself to be not that excited about the prospects of it though. I completely agree about the completely in or completely out viewpoint. There's no way I'd be willing to work on this with her were she to not be completely in.

On the S friend, it's strange. They're not really friends. About the only thing they have in common is that they are both trying to S and D. W came back and had obviously been drinking over there. Guessing they cracked open a bottle of wine. Does not seem healthy on the surface.

FG, awesome and thank you! I'm starting to read up on emotional dysregulation now. In addition to the "shouting", my W also gets upset when D and I wrestle around, when we don't react instantly to her commands, when we leave lights on, etc. It's a whole laundry list. I think I'm learning that she wants control bc she believes she can manage the anxiety that way. Put rules/processes in place so there's a routine. Good in theory, unrealistic in reality. Hence why my pandering to her anxiety has reinforced the rules and made violations of them earth shattering. Right now I'm taking the tact of not acknowledging moments when her anxiety is driving things. Wondering if it's the right path to take or not.

Cheesyt, appreciate you checking up on me! Been a busy couple weeks and I've had trouble making it here regularly. Trying to keep up w/ ya'lls situations, but finding it impossible to post on mine during the week.

So some journaling. I decided I'd send my W an email around the MC and co-parenting stuff. Sent her this early this week:

Me: "Hey, I did not respond to your question last weekend but have been giving it a lot of thought. I thought an email may help better relay my thoughts."

"To answer your question, yes I do want us to be married. I believe I'm correct in saying that neither of us would be happy w/ going back to the way our M was though."

"Your offer speaks volumes to your commitment to work on our M and our family. It also shows just how strong your love is for our D. I respect your offer and am encouraged by it. Here are my thoughts. I'm eager for your feedback on them."

"Around the co-parent counselor, I'd offer we do a cpl sessions. We've had some disconnect in our parenting styles and it may help us find a better footing. what are your thoughts?"

"For the MC, I think we both agree we do not want more of the same b/t us. I'd like to do some research and find someone more solution focused who can help us be better partners for each other and build a much happier family."

"Take as much time as you'd like to think about it. Happy to discuss when you are ready."

W: "I'm not going back to that co-parent counselor. I'm not comfortable w/ her. She talked down to me. She was rude on the phone before I even went to her office. I'm by no means comfortable speaking to her so it's pointless to see her."

"If you want to try counseling I prefer the MC from before. I think we need to see her before seeing another co-parent counselor."

So, I've yet to respond back to her. Honestly, I feel like she's wasting my time. I feel like she has ulterior motives and I don't trust her at this point. My IC says it's normal to feel that way, but he believes she's genuine in this offer. I do see more moments of warmth as a family than I have in the past, but towards me it's more of the same coldness. It's discouraging and frustrating.

I continue to be in a weird place right now. I do want my M back, but I don't want it with this person. I want it w/ my W from the past. I just don't see how this person can give way to my W though. Folks on her, as well as my IC, say that it's a long and slow process to drive that change. There's times where I see things that give me hope, but it seems like there's more times where there is no hope. The one thing that's helped me though is to take two perspectives on the situation. One is a high level, longer term view of things, the other is a day to day
low level, in the weeds type of view. My IC likened the high level view to viewing a trip on google maps. You know you have 500 miles to drive and the dot (your situation) is slowly moving from point a to point b. the low level view is more like the street view where you can see every detail of the town that you're passing, but you don't have great sight into how the overall journey is going.

Effectively, you can't let yourself get bogged down into the street level view. If you do, then pull back and look at the full journey and guage if your dot is making progress or not. It's helped me a little to not get discouraged by the day to day w/ my W. Hoping all that makes some sense!

Work, for the second week in a row has been draining and focus stealing. I've been more engaged there than at any point since BD. That's been a good thing and a bad thing. It's good bc I do love what I do and I've found even more confidence from successes the past two weeks. It's bad bc the first week it sucked my energy and focus and that was to the detriment of my time w/ D. This past week I've forced myself to keep focus on the important things and D and I have spent a bunch of quality time together! Capped it off today w/ a hike through a park and a picnic w/ her for 5 hrs. I even invited my W on Friday to join us but she did not respond back. Her loss bc we had an amazing time!

W is now on a push to renovate Ds bathroom. I took the toilet out this morning so W could paint he bathroom today (her excuse to D for not joining us). To highlight Ws anxiety, I shut off the water to the toilet and flushed out the bowl last night and was instantly confronted w/ an angry W who told me she asked me not to take out the toilet then. I calmly explained what I was doing (not removing the toilet) and she huffed off.

D and I came home and W asked if I could put up the new lights she'd bought for the bathroom. I did and it took about 3 hours b/c they didn't quite fit correctly. It was a pain, but got it done. W had a critique that the lights were too big but she'd live w/ them. No thank you or anything. Didn't expect one, but still frustrating nonetheless.

Usually we put up our Christmas tree and house lights the weekend after thanksgiving. For some reason the W wants to put them up early. So we did the tree last weekend and W is pushing me to put the lights on the house tomorrow.

I think a good portion of my frustration is these tasks right now. Combine those w/ the waffling on MC and co-parenting counseling and my general tiredness from the last cpl weeks and I'm in this weird frustrated/apathetic mood. Working to get myself out of it, but having trouble getting there.

So, a lot of rambling here by me! Not a lot to update on. I need to talk to my W about the MC stuff, but am waiting to get to a more balanced place. My IC thinks we could maybe work w/ the previous MC were I to frame it correctly. I'm thinking I might interview a couple MCs and go that route instead of going back to the previous one.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and support! I hope you all know just how much it's appreciated!!!!

[CT1118]

It's amazing how much comfort and help can come from this forum. I don't know that I would have held together as well as I have w/o reading about other's strength on these threads.

No doubt about this my friend

[hawker]

LT...how are you doing??

[hawker]

Ooops...sorry I see you posted yesterday....just checking in on you! ;-)

It is great comfort and help to have this forum, I agree with what you said about reading about others and how they are getting stronger everyday.

No one really understands what we are going through unless they have been there themselves. I don't talk about my feelings to anyone besides on here because they all think I should have moved on, forget about my W, she's a loser for doing this...blah blah... ;-)

Thanks for being there for us!

[j20a00g]

Ooops...sorry I see you posted yesterday....just checking in on you! ;-)

It is great comfort and help to have this forum, I agree with what you said about reading about others and how they are getting stronger everyday.

No one really understands what we are going through unless they have been there themselves. I don't talk about my feelings to anyone besides on here because they all think I should have moved on, forget about my W, she's a loser for doing this...blah blah... ;-)

Thanks for being there for us!

Exactly!

[CT1118]

Ooops...sorry I see you posted yesterday....just checking in on you! ;-)

It is great comfort and help to have this forum, I agree with what you said about reading about others and how they are getting stronger everyday.

No one really understands what we are going through unless they have been there themselves. I don't talk about my feelings to anyone besides on here because they all think I should have moved on, forget about my W, she's a loser for doing this...blah blah... ;-)

Thanks for being there for us!

Exactly!

Yes, indeed

[lt0402]

A quick post, but just wanted you all to know how extremely grateful and thankful I am for each and every one of you! You all have, and will continue to have, such an immeasurably positive effect on me and the course of my journey. I'd be lost without y'all and am happy to be amongst such great friends here this Thanksgiving!

Enjoy your Turkey day!

[lt0402]

Well, thanksgiving has come and gone and we are starting into December. Almost at 6 months into this thing. It's hard to believe that it's been that long. Seems like just yesterday was the BD, but it's been a long journey to this point.

The past week has been ok. W still spending a lot of time on her phone. We still spend a lot of time together as a family. W and I have been renovating Ds bathroom. Putting the mirrors up today and W will paint the cabinets this week so it'll be done soon. One of Ws projects. Haven't gotten any thank you's for the work I've done there, but didn't expect any anyways.

W and I have been back and forth over email about MC. It's been the easiest way to chat about it. W really wants to go see previous MC again. The one who basically gave up on our M 1hr into the first session. I may say yes to seeing her again as my W seems comfortable with her. First I want to talk to MC on the phone next week though. I want to ask her a few things like will you even see us as a couple again? My W seems very ambivalent, are you willing to help us grind through that and be patient with us? What would be your approach should we come back to you?

As you can tell I'm very hesitant to go back. Not just bc of the attack on my M but also bc I felt trapped in there. We will see. W is not comfortable opening up to people so this MC she trusts may actually be the best way for her to at least get help with her anxiety.

W didn't make anything for thanksgiving this year. I didn't expect her to so I bought stuff for me to make for us. Made the mashed potatoes and stuffing on Friday. She loves stuffing (not my thing) so I made that purely for her. Trying to insert some nice, thoughtful stuff into the situation to see what results come from it. I made a hell of a mess but finished cooking and cleaned up before W and D got home from a movie. I mean I had the place more spotless than W does and she's OCD about that stuff. No doubt the stuffing and cleanliness were noticed. Only thing W does to acknowledge it is move the stuffing to my portion of the fridge (guess that says she won't eat it) and complain that I tore up the sponge when I cleaned. again, wasn't expecting any different so no biggie. Made me feel good to do something nice for her and I actually had fun cooking that stuff. Doing the turkey today, so we will see how that turns out. Tough to find the time!

One thing I've noticed is that since I've done a few nice things for W she is starting to go out of her way to be combative again with me. No idea if this is her self defense or she is feeling guilty for something and trying to get me to react. Either way I won't take the bait. Fairly certain she is still talking to OM but I don't care to get swept into that game again so I just move forward with my life doing what I believe to be right. She can join if she wants but I won't be her plan b.

So, I believe a few weeks ago I was as fully detached as I could be. I felt comfortable with how this thing would end, regardless of its outcome. I'd come to grips that I can only control the direction D and I go in and W is her own pilot. After W asked if I wanted to stay M or get divorced, I find myself sliding back down the scale and sit somewhere wedged smack between attached and detached. IC says that's a good thing bc if I didn't reattach then it would show I didn't want to be in the M anymore. Still, it pulls some of the emotion back into this and at times I get swayed again by her actions. Not really a fan of that but I'll see where this goes. Again, not holding out a lot of hope, but I'll dip my toe in the water and see if anything comes of the MC.

I asked W if she wanted to watch a movie on Friday evening. She of course said no. I thought she would, but I don't want her to have the excuse that I'm not offering at times. One of her constant complaints has been that we would do separate things in the house at night. I'll keep randomly offering every now and then so she can start to see at her choice, not mine.

Went to dinner as a family last night. W was agitated at the start of it. No idea why. By the end of it we were all laughing and joking. W and I actually had some back and forth on Christmas stuff which was good. I felt amazing after we were done and home. Don't know if W did, but being happy with all 3 of us somewhere was good for my mood. D seemed very happy as well.

I continue to get outdoors and spend quality time with my D. Every weekend we've done something that's involved hiking and Pokemon. She's still wrapped up in catching those guys and I've become convinced that bonding over that silly game has cemented our relationship. I feel like I should give every Pokemon creator a hug! D is big into dinosaurs and paleontology and we are planning a trip out to Utah to a quarry where you can dig for fossils. W is invited but I know she won't go bc she hates to fly (anxiety again). D and I will have an amazing time though! She's so excited and it makes me happy we are doing something outside of the box that I know she'll love. Our R keeps getting stronger and it drives me daily. It's funny, but a friend on Facebook actually pointed out that my R with my D is amazing and he hopes to have the same with his newborn D one day. That made me feel like I'd accomplished something great. I told him it's always a work in progress but we always have fun. Made a mental note to try to help my friend navigate the different waters of having a D as she gets older.

On the strange front, a girlfriend from just before W and I met messaged me the other day out of the blue. Hadn't talked to her in 15yrs. Didn't respond for a few days but finally did. Talked about our families and how things were different now that we are older. Nice conversation, but no clue why she'd reach out to me. I cut it off and wished her and her family the best. Not planning on chatting anymore with her. She was the girl I'd pictured marrying up until I met my W and fell for her. Not sure anything good comes of talking to her in depth now so not going down that road.

One note on that though was that it was a huge confidence boost. Having someone I'd cared about reach out to me like that made me feel good. It made me understand how my W could feel when OM reached out to her on Facebook initially. It's a shame that I wasn't making my W feel that way at the time or all this could have been avoided. Again, mental note and move on.

So on that I think I'm going to tell my W that his girlfriend reached out to me. It'd be the conversation I'd want her to have with me if the roles were reversed. It's a strange point in our situation to have it but I think it's the right thing to do. A M can't be built on secrets, right?

Things at work are still hectic. Trying to close the year out strong and hit some aggressive goals. [censored] up a lot of my time recently. I meant what i said on thanksgiving about y'all. If I'm the lighthouse for my family, y'all are the old man that keeps the light running through all the storms. I appreciate all of you support and thoughts!