When I viewed MWD's LRT videos, it said do family things. It also said do not pursue. I do not see this action as pursuing. I see this man's action as teaching his sons how to respect someone. Whether it goes against how he feels about his xW or not, it is a positive action for the boys. The boys are too young to understand the bad behavior of the xW and it really is not something they should have to deal with.
I have heard of some of my friends who have tried this same thing and the xW did not even open the gift from their children because they thought it was pursuit. This caused more emotional damage to the child. There is a risk to doing something like this.
For me, I have too much bitterness at this point to take an action like this, but I am not sure I would do it on a yearly basis.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
There is no such thing as an amicable divorce, aside from the sexual orientation issue and violence. No marriage should end - children or not.
There are couples who have survived, multiple affairs, prison, addiction, illness, etc.
Anything else is quitting.
M:50 W:53 MR:20 D:21 S:17 S:11 BD-Sept 2015 Suspected PA Sept 2015-Confronted W & OM Dec 2015 Actually EA In house Sep:Jan/16-May 2016 W moved out:May 22 2016 OM-Intro Oct/17-On scene July/Aug 2017
In my opinion, there should be no such thing as an 'amicable' divorce when kids are involved. If there is enough good feelings to divorce amicably, then the people should be putting the effort in to repair the marriage. Its so frustrating to me how easy it is to get married and to get divorced and stories like this help reinforce that divorce is 'easy' and 'friendly' and 'good for everyone'. I found it disgusting.
Wonder if anyone else saw this and had any reaction to it?
This has me thinking a lot. I used to feel this way, however I no longer do. I have realized now that my agreement with this was largely in part due to my inability to detach from H. It was my strongest, and most convincing, argument for why we should work on the M. For why he should end his A and come back to me. We owe it to the children to at least try. "This is what we should do" actually translated to what I desperately thought I needed.
While in theory we all should work on the M for the sake of our vows and our children--and yes the work can be done, and yes love is a choice--I am still not sure you can ever "should" anything in relationships. There are no shoulds in love. And I want my relationships to be about love and not about obligation. While children are better off in families that are together, I think it can be as damaging to grow up and see parents living out of obligation to them, because it breeds resentment.
People are human and we are all imperfect. And, we all have different ideas about what we expect in our M and from our spouse. I don't think it's realistic that everyone should stick by each other because it is the right thing to do. Some of us need to let go and find something else in life. Many of us are here because our S left us for something or someone else. So we still can't quite let go.
So while the various explanations are unfortunate, and in an ideal world, "should" not happen, how is not being amicable a solution? We can all chose our M, we can all chose love, and I agree with that. However, we cannot force someone else to chose us or love us, but we can still be amicable with them.
Breakfast and flowers sounds a bit like pursuing. Being amicable for the sake of the children, I think that is hard, but necssary. If you are saying that there is "no such thing as an amicable divorce," my thoughts are that you still have some work to do on detachment.
Darknes, is it possible you have not entirely let go of your W? Or perhaps you are still holding on it the idea of her?
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
In my opinion, there should be no such thing as an 'amicable' divorce when kids are involved.
I did not have an amicable divorce.
I fought it tooth and nail. In retrospect I saw that it was a form of pursuit for me and likely pushed her further away, although that would likely have happened either way.
I am now coming up on 5 years post divorce. This past summer my son got married and both my kids had graduations for post graduate degrees.
Me and the ex tolerated each other, probably for the sake of the kids, now we are back to no contact.
I am not sure that this is better or worse.
I am finally healing and moving forward with my life. My kids will be stuck between parents for ever. That does not go away. My father is now divorced for 25 years, although he has now passed away I am still stuck with those consequences.
I guess all we can do is keep making the best choices with the cards we are dealt. Stand or Fold.
At today's Church service the pastor spoke about doing what is right and not just what we can get away with.
That to me is the crux of the issue. My W thinks that she can be herself finally and (I'm mind reading here) will be a better mother once she can be herself.
So should she stay in her MR because she should or because it's right.
I don't want her due to obligation - I want her because I made a promise to her (and she me) to be married till death...
So Blu - where is the line between Right and Should?
M:50 W:53 MR:20 D:21 S:17 S:11 BD-Sept 2015 Suspected PA Sept 2015-Confronted W & OM Dec 2015 Actually EA In house Sep:Jan/16-May 2016 W moved out:May 22 2016 OM-Intro Oct/17-On scene July/Aug 2017
I wrote that late at night, so please excuse the "chose" instead of "choose," sheesh. Smh.
Cadet, thank you for sharing. You bring up some great points. I am not sure there is any right or wrong answer to this either. Everyone has to move forward in a way that works for them. I think most Ds are not amicable but I can't believe that there is no such thing. Some people do make the choice to remain amicable and pleasant for the sake of the kids alone and I think that's a respectable choice. Others don't or can't, and that is okay too. There are ways we can still love and support our kids through this.
My parents got D when I was 5 and it was not amicable for many years. It was difficult and there were a lot of hard feelings. My brother and I were shuffled back and forth, the resentment was palpable, and it made for a lonely childhood. I think the part that was hardest, was not the D alone, but they didn't address our needs and feelings. My mother remarried and my dad never did. When my brother and I reached adulthood, things slowly changed. My mom realized that she wanted to see her family on every holiday and special occasion, and that by including my dad this could be possible. So after 15 yrs of D, it changed. And somehow it worked. As the years went by, they became more and more pleasant and almost had a friendship. So when we reached adulthood, we saw our parents at every holiday and the grandchildren (our kids) were able to see them all more often as well.
As hard as it was in my early childhood, I can see that their M would have not worked out even if my mom stuck around. They were such different people and had very different expectations of M and gender roles. Her and my step-father set an example of love and mutual respect, and they were a better match. So while none of this was ideal, it worked out okay in the end. I do think my father was always lonely, but I don't think it's fair to blame my mom for that.
So I would never suggest that all Ds should be amicable or that people should go against their feelings to make that happen. I don't believe there is no such thing tho.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
bigybiz, that's a good question. I don't know the answer. I think I am using right and should interchangeably. We all should work on our M and it is the right thing to do--we made a promise--and especially if we have children, then they deserve a family that is together. But people do change. Circumstances happen. We learn more about one another as we go through life. Some of these things do lead to an incompatibility. If my mom and dad stayed together, I honestly don't think it would have ever worked. As hard as it was for me growing up, I can see that them being together would have been damaging as well. My mom wasn't happy with him and they were different.
In my own M, I don't feel that way. My H and I are very compatible. We do care for each other, we have similar interests and values, and our children are doing much better with us being together. My personal issue is that I still have not fully forgiven him. I don't know that I ever will. He broke our vows, hurt me and the kids, and essentially gave up on our M for over a year. It would be the right thing for me to stay and continue to work on it. I will do that because I want to.
However if time goes by and something changes or my feelings change, I will not feel obligated to stay. I did not marry someone I thought could ever be unfaithful. At that point I imagine things will be amicable because we have been talking about this for some time now. He knew coming back they things were different.
Perhaps we all define these things differently--right, should, amicable--and so I dont think there are any wrong or right answers. We are all different and have to do the best we can.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I don't want her due to obligation - I want her because I made a promise to her (and she me) to be married till death...
bigybiz,
When I read your sentence, it seems like you're saying you don't want your wife if she feels like it's an obligation, but you want her because she made a promise (an obligation) to be married until death. So, to rewrite your sentence, this is what I read, "I don't want her due to obligation, I want her because she's obligated."
I assume what you really want is for her to love you enough that she'd want to stay with you regardless of any obligation.
In my opinion, there should be no such thing as an 'amicable' divorce when kids are involved.
darknes,
I didn't want to divorce, but I felt like, given the circumstances, that I had a fairly amicable divorce. Imagine my surprise when I took my sons to their first post-divorce counseling session and my xW described the separation and divorce as being "very nasty."
Our perceptions were completely different. By the time my wife had moved out, I'd become a hammer, and I immediately pounded down any nails that popped-up. I felt fine; I had zero tolerance for the WW spew. Apparently (mind reading), she felt beaten-down.
The point is that whether or not the divorce is amicable is in the eye of the beholder. I fought a good fight to keep my family together, and I lost, but when all was said and done, I could hold my head high and honestly say that I was her faithful husband until the end. But, I thought things were relatively sedate (they were). However, my ex-wife, who was determined to split-up the family, viewed the divorce as contentious. Maybe it was her conscience gnawing at her the entire time; I don't know.
So, in my opinion, an amicable divorce is probably not the best litmus test as to whether there was a heroic fight for the family.
Maybe I think amicable is the wrong word for it. My ex and I went through the divorce and things were fairly tense for a while, but now I would say that while we are certainly not friends, the spirit is generally friend-ly. During the drop offs or at a school event, if we see each other, I wouldnt say things are especially cold or hostile, but I think each of us are glad when the encounter is over and we can move on to the next part of the day.
That said, in no way, shape or form would I feel comfortable going to that person's house to make them a 'birthday breakfast' as a way of raising my children to do what is right.
As for the recent discussion in my thread, did I want my ex to stay with me out of 'obligation'? It's a difficult question to answer.
One the one hand, going through the initial ILYBNILWY phase, I didnt realize just how much I had contaminated my marriage - it wasnt until I had the perspective and time to objectively look at my role in the breakdown to really understand the things that I did that were considered hurtful. Like almost everyone on here, I think with a little time and effort, that relationship would have prospered into something better than the original marriage at the best times.
With that said, if I had known that it was my 'last chance' Im sure that things would have reverted and the initial changes I had made would have faded away.
In some ways, the LACK of obligation is what spurred me to make changes that I believe will last.
