Here we go again....

[trumpet]

Hey Bworl,

I agree I really think that she has a big issue being in a committed relationship. The therapist even told the both of us that when things get Real for my W she shuts down and pulls away. In therapy one time she explained a lot of hurt/pain seeing her mom fighting with her husbands and the happiest times were when her mom was leaving her stepdads. She was crying explaining all this to the therapist and I. I could tell it was causing her a lot of pain. My W didn't have the best role models when it came to stable loving relationships.

There isn't another man that I know of. There isn't the phone games, unexplained absences, texting someone all the time. I do think there might be more of an emotional affair be it either fantasy or reality. I really don't snoop a whole lot because I find that when I have done that in previous relationships it consumes me and I hate the man I become. I figure I will find out about it eventually one way or another.

I do think your right on setting the tone here and need to do it nicely to her. I like your wording here and will use it in the future. I think right now I am going to chill on all relationship talks. She obviously needs to work through her issues and the more I think about it the more I think we do need a separation for the both of us. I hate to admit it but I have become so co-dependent, niceguy, MR Fixit, wimp... on her and I need time to find myself again. So right now the plan is to continue status quo but with more confidence, detach as much as is possible, continue reading, and work on putting myself first.

Hey Matw,

Got caught up on your sitch.

First paragraph - you hit a huge nugget of truth. She married at 18, having NO good example of how a husband/wife should look. We learn as a child by watching... more is 'caught than is taught' as they say.

Reading your postings, I sense that your W has family of origin issues (FOO), and incorrect modeling of healthy family dynamics. You can't fix the past, and she can't either. She's just doing what she caught. She has safety in you... safety from hard fights she witnessed as a kid.

I fear your wife has much to learn, and needs to grow up as a person to make the marriage work. Not that you don't need to work on things as well. Her working out helps her self-esteem, but the possibility exists that the past haunts her, and the working out keeps the demons at bay.

My ex-ww has those demons. She is running from them, like she did most of our marriage. Wouldn't talk about sensitive topics, share her deep feelings, used humor and sarcasm to salve the wounds. She might run the rest of her life - I'm divorced, so those demons are hers to own. I was the nice guy. I let her have her way - it was always her way or the highway. I have my own addictions I deal with, too.

Your wife moving out needs to understand what that will do to your relationship. You will not be there for her any longer. You will be there for the kids, but not for her. I would pull the money off the table again, even if she flies into fits of rage. She will. Get your junk back. Stand there and let the spit fly into your face. Be the ancient oak on the shore, being rained on, blown against, but never falling.

Continue to GAL. Be a great dad. These are awesome things.

I don't have a good way to get your wife to see her FOO issues, and bringing them up right now might make things very much worse. I'm going to leave it up to Sandi and the vets to help with that. Better yet, ask your IC about it. I just think it's a big component of what she's struggling with, and it's what tore you both apart the first time, and is again.

Both of you have to be at 100% of yourselves to make a marriage work. 1+1='s 1 in a marriage. 100% of yourself would be ok with her moving on, but sad for the kids. You would be secure in your future, your life, and what you want. You could shake her hand, say goodbye, and be ok, never looking over your shoulder, never talking with her again. That's really tough to make happen in a short time - it takes work. Time and distance help.

My worry is that super-hero Matw will come to the rescue come November, and any time the wife uses the kids to get her way. That would be my hope and prayer for you - make YOU as important as anything in your life.

[matw]

My worry is that super-hero Matw will come to the rescue come November, and any time the wife uses the kids to get her way. That would be my hope and prayer for you - make YOU as important as anything in your life.

Hey Trumpet,

I want to say thank you for the thoughtful response and going into detail about the FOO. I really haven't thought about it in the ways you were talking. It really makes sense. I do want to let you know that is my biggest fear that I will continue to come to her rescue. I have my first IC session tomorrow and that is one thing I really want to concentrate on. I have such an issue putting myself first when it comes to her and always do what I can to make sure she is happy. I am realizing that that isn't the correct way for me to behave. Its not my job to fix her issues - Nor will I be ever be able to. This has to come from her.

So an update on my sitch -
We are pretty much just roommates now as we wait for apartment to become available. We talk at night but its mostly about the gym, her new work schedule that is coming up, or the kids. We don't have any deep conversations. While I am tempted to have R conversations I don't because there isn't a point in that right now. While I am not looking forward to her moving out I know that its what is needed right now. I am beginning to see the value in me having space from her. We don't talk about divorce and the only thing she has said about it she isn't looking for that right now.

Tomorrow night we are going to a play that we bought tickets for months ago so I am will be upbeat and confident. On Saturday we have a Halloween party for a mutual friend that we are going to attend together. This will probably be the last weekend we will be doing stuff together. My kids asked me last night if we were going to ever go on family vacations again together.. about broke my heart but I didn't let them see. I just told them that we will have to see but no matter what I would do something special with them.

Some goals that I am working on -

Putting myself first - My main goal
Detaching - I am not doing a very good job.. better than I was a few weeks ago but still have a long way to go.
Counseling - Going to see him tomorrow and really get to the bottom of why I avoid conflict and Nice Guy mentality.
GALing - Have been reaching out to old friends to reconnect and want to start going out to do stuff again. I am also going to start my flying in a few weeks which I am really excited about.

[trumpet]

Putting yourself first will be hard.

Don't earthquake your life thinking it will solve the issue. Be systematic.

Do ONE thing for yourself you want to do. A movie by yourself. A dinner that you enjoy but she doesn't. Buy some nice cologne, a new shirt in a color you like, but maybe she doesn't. Just a few examples. Doing things will be better than BUYING things, in my opinion. My lone week out on the east coast is a highlight of this year - lots of good thoughts from that trip.

How can you be grateful for the things you DO have? Even the smallest things. Name them. List them. Make an 'easy' and 'hard' bucketlist. See if you can do some of the easy things this week.

You're building a brick at a time, not a wall at a time.

[matw]

Putting yourself first will be hard.


You're building a brick at a time, not a wall at a time.

I really like this way of thinking. It really is the small things that will add up over time with putting myself first. That's going to be my plan.

So today I have my first meeting with a IC. I am a little be nervous but also looking forward to talk about some of my issues/concerns/goals. I really need to stop looking at this as poor me.. my wife and I are separating. I need to realize this is an opportunity to grow as a man/person/father. That is the mindset I am trying to work on.


Hope everybody has a great Friday and Weekend!

[matw]

So thought I would update my sitch.. Went to my IC last Friday and we had some interesting discussions. This counselor is the one that my wife went to as an IC and also we used for our MC. Now we are both going to him as an IC so he has some pretty good insight into what is going on in our marriage. First thing he tells me is, "We have a very confused women and I hear you are being very patient with her." Then he tells me, "You know there is a different between being patient and stupid..."

So he asks me about my wife's relationships that she has... with friends, family, our kids, etc... Ask's me if she has ever had any really good relationships that a mutually beneficial to both parties. I realize that she really hasn't in the 15 years I have known her. Basically he tells me that my wife doesn't have the capacity for it because she always shuts down and runs. He explains that is what he is going to be working with her on.

We then go into that I need to stop being the nice guy and helping her. I have been enabling her through the entire relationship. He wants me to stop avoiding conflict with her as well. Not in a mean way or anything but stand up for myself. He also wants me to stop helping her so much. She needs the move out to be painful for her and realize that running from responsibility/feelings isn't the right way to go about it.

He wants me to work on myself and continuing putting myself 1st. He gave some great suggestions and recommendations. Its not about going out and doing big grand gestures to prove your putting yourself first. Its move about doing smaller things that add up over time. Doing things only for me and not because I want someone else to think of me a certain way.

I left there with a lot to think about. I think the best thing I can do for myself right now is to work on detaching. This has been difficult for me and has been slowly driving me crazy how much I think about her. I know it will be easier once I detach and realize it will take sometime. I think it might be easier once she is in the apartment.

[matw]

So I haven't written in here for awhile. Been lurking in other peoples threads but decided I would journal a little bit today.

Having a rough time of it... Today is the day my W signs the lease on her apartment. She will be moving a lot of her stuff today and then the bigger furniture this weekend. So by the end of the weekend I will be alone in my house while she will be living in her apartment.

Yesterday we talked a little bit over the phone about everything that is going on. Its the first time she actually showed a little emotion. I could hear her crying and explaining how are this was on her but she needed to do it. She wants to concentrate on her work, school program she is enrolling in to be an addiction counselor, and our kids. She did say she doesn't want a divorce right now because she doesn't want us to do anything we will regret in the future if all we need is time/space from each other right now. I guess that is a positive and gives me the time to continue working on myself.

For me I saw my therapist again on Monday. We went over how I acted the first time we divorced and how I was always there for her. I explained the different ways about how I would always come to her rescue. He said I am really the ultimate nice guy and we need to work on putting my needs first. He wants me to get to a place that if she calls because one of the kids is throwing a tantrum and wants me to to come over I say no. She needs to deal with it because she is their mother. Obviously we aren't taking big behavioral issues that would need both parents. He explained she will test me and will call me to come over. I have to say no and let her feel the pain of being a "single" parent. She has asked for this.

We also went over how hard I am taking it this time versus the last time. He thinks its because I know deep down this really will be the end of our marriage. Whether she makes it so or I realize I need someone who can fulfill my needs in a relationship. We talked about how much I give to her with out getting anything in return.

We talked about the kid schedule and how we were going to manage that. I went over the original plan that I came up with which had a lot of back and forth plus me watching them a majority of the weekend. He said that I am doing it again and helping her way to much. I told him I wanted to do a 2-2-3 split originally but didn't think she would go for it. We talk about how that's not her choice and is really the fairest way for both the kids+parents. He challenged me to go home and talk to her about it. Well I am proud to say I did it and she agreed to it. This will be so nice and I have to say I am excited about it. During our divorce I took the kids Thursday through Sunday and never went out during the weekend while she got to do whatever she wanted. I really am excited that I will actually get every other weekend free to do some GAL activities.

Last Saturday I had my first flight lesson since July! I was so excited about it. It was the first 2 hour block of time that I haven't thought about my W. My instructor was really awesome and knows I am going through a lot. He was very complimentary and told me I was born to fly. I picked back up on everything - slow flight, stalls, steep turns, landings, etc.. without a hitch! He was very impressed. I am scheduled every saturday until Feb with him to continue working on my pilot license! Very excited about that!

Now I need to get some more GAL activities.. I am going to try to reconnect with old friends/family to see how everybody is doing. I am hoping that is going to help me to detach (which I am struggling with horribly) I promise I will write more on the forums... Its helping quite a bit just letting all this out.

[doodler]

Last Saturday I had my first flight lesson since July! I was so excited about it. It was the first 2 hour block of time that I haven't thought about my W. My instructor was really awesome and knows I am going through a lot. He was very complimentary and told me I was born to fly. I picked back up on everything - slow flight, stalls, steep turns, landings, etc.. without a hitch! He was very impressed. I am scheduled every saturday until Feb with him to continue working on my pilot license! Very excited about that!

matw,

That's awesome! I started flying when I was 16 and I remember that being in the airplane alone (once I started flying solo), I always felt so much freedom. As long as I had fuel, I was free to roam the skies; no cops to pull me over for speeding. That was such a great feeling. I was Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

[matw]

matw,

That's awesome! I started flying when I was 16 and I remember that being in the airplane alone (once I started flying solo), I always felt so much freedom. As long as I had fuel, I was free to roam the skies; no cops to pull me over for speeding. That was such a great feeling. I was Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

Yeah I a excited to do my first solo. My instructor thinks I will be ready in about 5 more lessons for that! I am so excited but also really nervous about it. My goal is to have my license by next spring so I can spend the summer flying!


journaling...

So I am having an extremely hard time today... Knowing my W is in the progress of moving all of her stuff out of our home and into her apartment today is killing me... I am thinking of stupid things that come to my mind -

like she probably won't take any of our wedding pictures but will leave them for me to look at
is she leaving her wedding dress at our house or taking? (right now its been in our daughters closet)
Is she taking the vibrators I bought for her (What would I do with it???) I just keep thinking of her using them with someone else
All the decorations at our house are usually her doing and now nothing is going to be there... (like Halloween, fall, Christmas, etc..)

A ton more random things just flying through my head. I haven't been able to concentrate at work all day. I feel like screaming, crying, hitting something, etc... I know this is where detachment comes in to play. I am the first to admit I am not there at all.

This [censored]...... I know eventually I will get stronger and when she is out of the house completely it may get easier... Just not happening today.

[AndrewP]

This [censored]...... I know eventually I will get stronger and when she is out of the house completely it may get easier... Just not happening today.

It will. If your experience will be anything like mine expect a combination of randomness and thoroughness. Certain things that would have reminded my W of happier times were left as was her wedding dress. Other things just didn't make sense like her leaving 3 pairs of shoes out of the dozens that she had.

It was frustrating but also funny because for weeks I'd be looking for something like the good kitchen scissors and they wouldn't be there, but both can openers were.

Oh - and pick up take-away food for dinner tonight. My fridge was one of the victims, again, both random and thorough. I still have a can of Cherry Coke that W loves sitting in there (you can't get it in Canada).

With her gone though you can start making the house your own. I was originally tempted to go nuts and start throwing stuff out, re-arranging etc but found it draining. I've taken it one step at a time and slowly reclaimed almost all of the house now.

[matw]

With her gone though you can start making the house your own. I was originally tempted to go nuts and start throwing stuff out, re-arranging etc but found it draining. I've taken it one step at a time and slowly reclaimed almost all of the house now.

This is a good idea and what I need to do. Its funny because when we were divorced I bought this house and lived in it for a couple of years by myself and my son's. I loved it and enjoyed it because it was my house. Now that we have lived together in it for 6 years and its the only house my daughter knows it feels strange now. Like it will never be my house again but a reminder of the last six years. Its silly to think like that especially today of all days. I know with time and effort I will turn it back into the house I enjoyed and want to be in.